#7408 [CORE] - Wild Surge "Held" Effects Ignore Immunity to Hold
syllog
Member Posts: 158
Intended Behavior:
"Caster/Target Held" wild surge outcomes do not allow a save, but respect status immunities.
["Spell" SPWM122.spl specifically lists effect as "dispel/not bypass" - all 5 outcomes use this.]
Observed Behavior:
"Caster/Target Held" wild surge outcomes correctly do not allow a save, but incorrectly ignore status immunities for player.
Tested with:
Edventar's Memory
Ring of Free Action
Berserker - Enrage
Chaotic Commands
Free Action (spell)
Gameplay Importance::
There are 5 caster/target held outcomes in the wild surge table (2 "caster", 3 "target").
i.e. 5% on an unmodified roll (I don't know the cause of the redundancy).
Inability to protect against 'Held' outcomes makes strategic playing of wild mage very difficult. Incorrectly may neuter some enemies that should be immune. Inconsistent with PHB outcomes - which were mitigateable.
Unknown:
I have not tested whether the "Held" effect bypasses enemies' immunities. Though it presumably does.
Notable:
Remove paralysis does correctly remove the 'held' effect. Thus the cause of the bug is presumably (?) not that an incorrectly flagged status is being applied.
"Caster/Target Held" wild surge outcomes do not allow a save, but respect status immunities.
["Spell" SPWM122.spl specifically lists effect as "dispel/not bypass" - all 5 outcomes use this.]
Observed Behavior:
"Caster/Target Held" wild surge outcomes correctly do not allow a save, but incorrectly ignore status immunities for player.
Tested with:
Edventar's Memory
Ring of Free Action
Berserker - Enrage
Chaotic Commands
Free Action (spell)
Gameplay Importance::
There are 5 caster/target held outcomes in the wild surge table (2 "caster", 3 "target").
i.e. 5% on an unmodified roll (I don't know the cause of the redundancy).
Inability to protect against 'Held' outcomes makes strategic playing of wild mage very difficult. Incorrectly may neuter some enemies that should be immune. Inconsistent with PHB outcomes - which were mitigateable.
Unknown:
I have not tested whether the "Held" effect bypasses enemies' immunities. Though it presumably does.
Notable:
Remove paralysis does correctly remove the 'held' effect. Thus the cause of the bug is presumably (?) not that an incorrectly flagged status is being applied.
Post edited by Troodon80 on
0
Comments
I originally noticed it playing through with a Cleric/Wild Mage pre-BG:EE, trying to protect myself in an erstwhile no-reload. 80
However, I formally and repeatedly tested the assertion in BG:EE v1.2 prior to posting.
For Testing:
I used EEKeeper to give my character 12+ level 1 spell slots and filled them with Nahal's Reckless Dweomer.
Then I just repeatedly used NRD to cast Shield.
Quickloading if I ran out of castings or didn't want to wait for an annoying effect to fade on it's own. (e.g. miscast magic/"hiccups")
Each NRD gives you a wild surge and lets you easily control who the target is.
Obviously: you won't* roll any effects ≤ your character's level. But you can do this on a level 1 Mage, so minor loss.
'Held" result is easy to test as it makes up 1/20th of surge list (in 2 diff't incarnations).
Minor suggestion: Remove/add memorized spells so that whatever you want to cast via NRD is right by where your cursor was when you clicked NRD - faster cycling through wild surges for one you want. (...or maybe you can quickcast spell from within NRD? I don't know.)
* "won't" = "shouldn't", I suppose; seeing as this is testing.
To re-emphasize: I only targeted myself [Shield], but the interactions of some spells/effects is different based on caster/target/player status.
e.g. self-targeting damage spells by player ignore MR, and spells (regardless of targeting) ignore the caster's own Spell Immunity.
The 'Held' bypass described in OP may be like this too.