Thanks for the awesome summary. I would probably remove the exp cap anyway because I have been able to get HLAs by chapter 4 without doing WK with a 6 man party...
That said, I just feel like F/M/T would be too much like F/M which I've done 3 variations of now. I wish F/C/T was possible but with F/T I guess the barbarian version is the tankiest while the assassin or kensai version seems to be the hardest hitting.
Carosmyr/Ravager/Staff of the Ram +4 as the weapons, it should make for an interesting run (Actually would it be worth getting +6 on the staff? The 50% blunt resistance is powerful though...)
With no Exp cap is no contest, the only limiter to the F/M/T's abilities is the fact that it never gets level 9 spells. The moment you fix the F/M/T's HLA pool to include Mage and the exp cap to allow the full levels in every class, and the F/M/T and F/M/C classes dominate, with the other multiclasses close behind, but I can appreciate that they do play quite similarly to one another.
For an unusual tanking combo, don't underestimate the Fighter/Swashbuckler. It can wear any armour, and gets -6 AC on top of its full plate, giving a 20 Dex Tome'd Halfling or Elf -9 AC base AC.
Throw in a Helm, Gaxx, Amulet of the Master Harper, +2 Ring of Protection, Boots of Phasing and Montolio's Cloak you're looking at -18 AC or so (I've no idea if the amulet can stack with RoP's), Darksteel Shield +4 brings this down to -23, and Axe of the Unyielding (or Yamato +4) drop this even further to -24 AC.
With Destroyer of the Hills, that means you have a -27 AC or better against all physical attacks (-29 if you're a Fighter -> Swashbuckler). An 18/00 Strength, level 21 Fighter with Grand Mastery and a +5 Sword has a -11 THAC0, meaning they hit you only on a 16 or better. One of the only viable AC-tanks in ToB, and most enemies will need a crit to hit you.
If you give up 1 AC for Foebane +5, then you're hitting 3 times a round before Haste, at a THAC0 of -10 or better, recovering 12 HP a round from Foebane, and dealing an easy 17-23 damage a hit before Strength modifiers and enemy type bonuses (and if you give up the extra 5 AC from the shield when it's not required you can still pull in any of the usual dual wield suspects for perfectly viable melee damage dealing with Critical Strike and improved haste).
Meanwhile a Swashtank can still detect traps and illusions, still set snares, and still use wands, only needing to de-armour when you have a lock or trap to disarm, since there's no need to worry about Backstabbing or hiding.
Closest to F/C/T would probably be a Stalker/Cleric. They're actually great fun, but you've played one Cleric, you've played them all in terms of weapon selection.
An elven Kensai/mage/thief sounds interesting. I think either that or an elven Fighter/Mage/Assassin (if evil), fighter/mage/swashie or my personal one (if I could) Fighter/Invoker/Thief even if illusionist would fit better.
No, fairly certain gnomes can't do either tri-class. You can either do Fighter/Illusionist or Illusionist Thief. Only elves and half-elves can do FMT and only half elves can do FMC
A fighter/thief multi-class will never have to learn about down-time or THAC0, since that stuff is basically covered for him through leveling, and despite the slower leveling, you'll still get TONS of thief points to spend, and will get access to HLA's of both classes. It's definitely a more front-line friendly combo.
Kensai/Thief is probably one of the strongest and more efficient backstabbers, especially if you take on Grand Mastery in any thief weapon ASAP. Due to the fighter levels you'll have more attacks per round, which is great for trying to get a backstab off while in stealth, as well as front-lining, but the biggest problem until epic levels is lack of armor, but UAI offsets it (as mentioned), and you can do the usual kensai trick and use one of the many AC lowering items/spells in the game (Potions, amulet, cloaks, rings, Spirit Armor, Barksin, etc).
It should be noted that Wizard Slayer can mitigate his massive penalties by taking on thief levels and getting Use Any Item, but you have to spend most of the game without boots, cloaks, rings, helmets, and bracers... not good.
In short, because this is your first Fighter/Thief experience, I'd say go with a multi-class first; picking Elf, Half-Orc, or Halfling, and just trying it out. One of the things to love about Fighter/Thief classes is the fact that they aren't sitting ducks when their backstab lands and puts them out of stealth; it's more like a starting attack before they pull out two weapons and kick ass.
Would you guys upgrade staff of the ram then? Because I usually wouldn't if one of my npc thieves was my backstabber... I'd keep the horn.
If i have someone using staffs in my party, specially an backstabber thief, i will surelly upgrade the item to get the most powerful backstabbing weapon of the game !
Comments
Thanks for the awesome summary. I would probably remove the exp cap anyway because I have been able to get HLAs by chapter 4 without doing WK with a 6 man party...
That said, I just feel like F/M/T would be too much like F/M which I've done 3 variations of now. I wish F/C/T was possible but with F/T I guess the barbarian version is the tankiest while the assassin or kensai version seems to be the hardest hitting.
Carosmyr/Ravager/Staff of the Ram +4 as the weapons, it should make for an interesting run (Actually would it be worth getting +6 on the staff? The 50% blunt resistance is powerful though...)
A new item, headband of the devout, can give +3 STR, +10 hp, and max damage on hit for 1 turn, as well as permanent bless (must have UAI).
This opens the possibility for max-damage, assassination/critical hit with 9-10 attacks/rnd (improved hasted, dual wielding).
For an unusual tanking combo, don't underestimate the Fighter/Swashbuckler. It can wear any armour, and gets -6 AC on top of its full plate, giving a 20 Dex Tome'd Halfling or Elf -9 AC base AC.
Throw in a Helm, Gaxx, Amulet of the Master Harper, +2 Ring of Protection, Boots of Phasing and Montolio's Cloak you're looking at -18 AC or so (I've no idea if the amulet can stack with RoP's), Darksteel Shield +4 brings this down to -23, and Axe of the Unyielding (or Yamato +4) drop this even further to -24 AC.
With Destroyer of the Hills, that means you have a -27 AC or better against all physical attacks (-29 if you're a Fighter -> Swashbuckler). An 18/00 Strength, level 21 Fighter with Grand Mastery and a +5 Sword has a -11 THAC0, meaning they hit you only on a 16 or better. One of the only viable AC-tanks in ToB, and most enemies will need a crit to hit you.
If you give up 1 AC for Foebane +5, then you're hitting 3 times a round before Haste, at a THAC0 of -10 or better, recovering 12 HP a round from Foebane, and dealing an easy 17-23 damage a hit before Strength modifiers and enemy type bonuses (and if you give up the extra 5 AC from the shield when it's not required you can still pull in any of the usual dual wield suspects for perfectly viable melee damage dealing with Critical Strike and improved haste).
Meanwhile a Swashtank can still detect traps and illusions, still set snares, and still use wands, only needing to de-armour when you have a lock or trap to disarm, since there's no need to worry about Backstabbing or hiding.
Closest to F/C/T would probably be a Stalker/Cleric. They're actually great fun, but you've played one Cleric, you've played them all in terms of weapon selection.
Kensai/Thief is probably one of the strongest and more efficient backstabbers, especially if you take on Grand Mastery in any thief weapon ASAP. Due to the fighter levels you'll have more attacks per round, which is great for trying to get a backstab off while in stealth, as well as front-lining, but the biggest problem until epic levels is lack of armor, but UAI offsets it (as mentioned), and you can do the usual kensai trick and use one of the many AC lowering items/spells in the game (Potions, amulet, cloaks, rings, Spirit Armor, Barksin, etc).
It should be noted that Wizard Slayer can mitigate his massive penalties by taking on thief levels and getting Use Any Item, but you have to spend most of the game without boots, cloaks, rings, helmets, and bracers... not good.
In short, because this is your first Fighter/Thief experience, I'd say go with a multi-class first; picking Elf, Half-Orc, or Halfling, and just trying it out. One of the things to love about Fighter/Thief classes is the fact that they aren't sitting ducks when their backstab lands and puts them out of stealth; it's more like a starting attack before they pull out two weapons and kick ass.