Throne of Bhaal - What did your CHARNAME do after the ___ ending? (*BGII:EE SPOILERS*)
paul_leone
Member Posts: 15
I'm working on another ToB run this week, and this time I think I'm going to go for the
divine ascension ending. That got me wondering - what sort of demigods will Sansa, Epic Level Swashbuckler, be joining in the Bhaalspawn pantheon? What have you pictured your ascended characters getting up to? What niches in the pantheon did they fill - or claim?
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I always guessed that the original authors were going for either a god of redemption or a god of euthanasia but the idea was nixed by WOTC.
Redemption --
If you follow the good path you 'put an end' to Keldorns life as a paladin so he can start being a father, end Viconia's life as a drow (based upon hints that she had the opportunity become Matron of house DeVir), end Korgan's life a mercenary (with Mazzy's help -- based on the unfinished romance in the files), end Valygars life of hate (also unfinished romance in the code) and end Haer'Dalis life as a doomguard (based on David Gaider's description of the original plot and never implemented HD romance).
Perhaps this is stretch but but also help to kill Aerie's dreams of flight so she can start living on the ground and end Anomen's life as squire so he can start a life as a knight.
Euthanasia --
You end Rielev's life and are thanked, you end the spellhold vampire's life and are thanked, and I think in the original plot Imoen became the ravager, you killed her and she thanked you. You also end patrick's suffering and probably a few others I can't remember.
I mean, the game can't obviously give you an ending of "Then you become a God, and Cyric points at you and laughs, and then he attacks you, and then you die horribly", because that would be the most unsatisfactory thing till they released NWN2. But knowing how the Forgotten Realms work and how the Planescape setting works, I don't see a long-term survival strategy for the Bhaalspawn.
Assuming, though, that for whatever reason, Cyric doesn't immediately snuff out the Bhaalspawn (the obvious answer would be 'Ao says no', but Ao certainly didn't seem to give a darn when Cyric went out and killed freakin' Mystra), then the Bhaalspawn has a few things they need to do.
One thing they'll have to do is rethink their profile. Cyric is the God of Murder. You wouldn't automatically get the profile just by ascending with Bhaal's essence: you'd both just be competing gods with 'Murder' on their payrolls. And you're both in the same pantheon, too- Moonbow can get away with being a goddess of magic, too, because she's over hanging out with the Elves, and Horus-Re is also a sun god, but neither of them are in the Faerun pantheon. The Bhaalspawn is. What's going to happen in that case is whoever has the most amount of worshipers is going to claim the portfolio, and that's going to be Cyric.
So the Bhaalspawn will have to find some unique aspect that comes from a similar base as murder but isn't murder that doesn't already conflict with another living God (Kelemvor's focus on death itself, for example). Someone on the boards suggested euthanasia: that might be a possibility. Finder, another Demigod, was able to turn Moander's profile of rot in to a profile of 'change in art' of all things, so you can probably branch out a bit. I personally don't have any great ideas on this, but my Bhaalspawn is the one with the 20 INT, not me. For now, most of them are going with that euthanasia idea.
Second thing they'll need is protection, and protection fast. Almost all demigods (and quite a few lesser powers) are closely tied to a Greater Power that helps protect them. The deities of Knowledge with Oghma, the deities of Fury with Talos, the dwarven deities with Mordin, so on so forth. This is probably a good idea. A neutral or maybe even good deity of euthanasia could probably ally with Kelemevor. He and Cyric already hate each other, so you'd be in good enough company, and hey, you'd have company in Jergal, who surely has some interesting stories to tell considering he's ancient. Go and tell Lathander that you hate undead, too, and like change (since some part of the whole murder-re-concept is probably inevitably going to involve changes) and he'll totally be your bro (extra points for having been a cleric of Lathander while living).
An idea for an evil Bhaalspawn that likes living dangerously might consider pledging their allegiance *to* Cyric. Sure, he's going to try and subvert you and eventually steal your profile, but you're planning on betraying him as well, aren't you? And hey, he's insane! It's worth a shot! If you're serving him, you're giving him a tiny piece of your power, so in turn he probably won't do anything against you. (Play your cards right and keep hanging around with him, and eventually he's going to do something stupid and get imprisoned for a 10000 or so years, giving you plenty of time to go around stealing his profile and worshipers.) Talos has wanted Umberlee's profile since they both existed, and still hasn't gotten it despite her serving under him despite the chaotic evil, so it's a working possibility.
Third thing is the most important for gods: get worshipers ASAP. Thankfully, the Bhaalspawn has five or so epic hanger-on's that are probably willing to spread the word (excepting the clerics, paladin, and druids, anyway). I mean, surely you could convince Imoen to go around preaching about the awesomeness of the Bhaalspawn and why everyone should worship him/her, right? Edwin's not going to turn down a chance for more power: turn him in to a Chosen, and maybe he'll actually have some luck in that whole duel with Eliminister thing he insists on getting himself in to. Dorn needs a patron? Dorn has a patron, full of unholygod(ess)ness that will get him out of all his troubles in Luskan.
Currently, I have an elven ranger that's on the path to ascension, as much as it's going to break her to leave Xan behind. I figure she might be able to turn murder in to natural endings, and then go hang out with Silvanus and the other gods and goddesses of nature. Go chill in ponds with Eldath for a few thousand years: it'll certainly be relaxing after all the fighting and killing and crazy of her living adventures.
As far as Sansa goes, she'd be in a bind in canon. Mask has thieves locked up, and general good-natured roguishness is Tymora's deal. (Maybe Patron Deity of Tomb-Raidi... er, Rescuing Powerful Artifacts from Evil Tomb-Raiders Who Aren't Us?)
He's basically Noober.
As for the Bhaalspawn being in immediate trouble from cyric, I think he he would be a big danger to an evil charname. A good charname should be able to find allies in the other good gods. I also get the impression, it's not easy for a god to just kill another god outside of the time of troubles. Cyric would also have to worry about Ao, who calls the shots. For all we know it could have been Ao's will to have the Bhaalspawn ascend and take the portfolio of murder from him. In TOB it was pretty clear that Ao had told the other gods not to interfere with the Bhaalspawn when Cyric showed up to evaluate the charname. If you're playing a good charname, he makes it pretty clear he doesn't see you as a threat, since it's obvious you're not going to try the title god of murder from him. I do like the whole god of euthanasia idea for a good charname, that's fitting.
And of course they'd have to start getting worshippers fast. But if Bhaal, Mask, Cyric, etc could do it, why not charname? I hear Dorn's looking for a new job
I think ascended Bhaaspawn would become a minor power at best, as Bhaal church is defunct and his power was drawn mostly from people's memories and past fear of him. So I don't think that a major power such as Cyric would even be bothered, his toying cameo in ToB shows as well.
All in all, it'd be easier to regain power for the evil Bhaalspawn by assuming the old mantle of the God of Murder, but the good alinged Bhaalspawn would still need quite a lot of work to do - to establish what exactly he\she is a god of and convert new believers. Quite a task, especially considering that all the cool stuff is already taken by the other gods. And as Haer'Dalis said: "No matter how powerful you assume yourself to be, there is always another, stronger. And in the Planes this is doubly so."
I usually prefer no to bother and just stay a powerful mortal than become a weak power.
But I do suppose working with certain other gods to have some form of alliances out there so Cyric doesn't just casually come over and murder him.
Alternatively, still with no actual proper plan, a Lawful Neutral Necromancer... It could lead somewhere...
Or if you want a completely doomed attempt of being a god, there is Chaotic Evil Blackguard... I'd be more surprised if a Chaotic Evil char of the warrior classes didn't instantly try to go kill Cyric upon ascension...
(I don't know why I'm using male pronouns, I almost always play gals.)
Then Cyric is inevitably going to go and kill Mystra and get imprisoned in the Shattered Throne and be unable to leave it, and that's a perfect time to take up residence in the remains of the Abyss in the Elemental Chaos and start stealing Cyric's profile and worshippers while he's locked up and useless.
Of course, to know about this, the Bhaalspawn would have to be an even greater diviner then Saravos, which is probably not happening. So they'd be taking a lot of chances. But the reward, to become the full Greater God of murder, as well as intrigue, assassins, lies, and all those other things Cyric is holding in his profile? Mmm. Fun times.
Maybe you could somehow take over for ellistrea? Too if your a drow and neutral/good...
Bhaal's essence by the way isn't something weak, it's 1/3 of Jergal essence, and Jergal was in his time the most powerful god of Faerûn pantheon, and not to mention that Char Name isn't someone that just "hey i found this god level power from nothing!! Let's use it!!".
Charname is an experienced adventurer that even without bhaal's essence, him and his entire ToB party would eventually ascend to lesser gods (as keldorn, that became an exarch of Torm in his epilogue after ToB events).
Cyric has almost every other god of the pantheon of Faerûn as his enemy, good or evil everyone hate Cyric, so no, i don't think Cyric would expose himself so openly to just attack and kill charname, too dangeours and could give opportunity for many of his enemies to jump in Char Name defense as an excuse to get on Cyric.
Now, what i would do after ToB events? That's easy, i would go straight to Tethyr and queen Zaranda would have to makeup an very good excuse if she wish to keep her head over her shouders, no matter my alignment she send an army to kill me, if i'm good she forced my hand in killing thousand of innocents, if i'm neutral or evil she's going to get some retribution time!
Back to the topic. Since it wasn't that long ago that I saw The Crow, I'm thinking that that is something my Charname could do if he ascends. That is, being the God of Rightful Vengeance for murdered people. Having picked up a thing or two about justice from Keldorn, a bit or two on the joys of killing from Korgan and being generally pissed off for not being able to help Jan with his friends domestic problems, allowing people to come back from the dead to avenge their murders would totally suit my Charname. Oh, and the whole "getting back at Irenicus for stealing my soul but mostly pissing off Minsc by killing his witch"-thing.
Dunno if this slot is already taken in the FR pantheon, if so MOVE OVER VILLAINY! HERO COMING THROUGH!
(And yes, I'd bless both Minsc, Boo and Jan with divine powers of retribution."
As I imagined what happened afterwards:
Cyric is about to attack so you need to find allies.
You could ally yourself with Illmater to take over euthanasia (since he deals with suffering), you could seek out Lathander to become a demi power of redemption (since he deals with renewal -- you kill your old life to start another).
Not sure who you would need to ally with to become the god of prison breaks but there are lots of prison escapes in the story . . .
Perhaps Amanator could allow you to become the dusk lord?
I'm not sure if there is a 'good' ending for an evil character -- in the original plot if you become evil you just become fuel for Bhaal's resurrection . . . . Perhaps you could become a thrall of Bane?
Anyway, once you have a portfolio in mind you would need to earn it. To do so you would need the support of X number of established gods. You would create different avatars and the various other gods would send those avatars out on quests in return for their support. If you were able to get enough gods on your side your avatars would then battle Cyric's avatars. (One of the quests involves finding an item that will to split Cyric into equally powerful avatars -- which will give you chance to succeed.)
The many avatars eliminates the problems of the rules breaking down at higher levels. Each of the avatars would be a level 18 or so -- powerful but not so powerful that it can't be made into a game.
That's my idea if anyone wants to take it and make it into a mod
The problem is that sending out an avatar drains a God of power, and that killing an Avatar generally drains that god of more power. That's why Selune doesn't send out avatars often- Shar goes 'LOLZ no', goes and kills her avatars, and Selune is drained.
An avatar of the Bhaalspawn will likely be as they were in their adventuring days- a low level 30 of whatever class. Unfortunately, an avatar of Cyric is (in this edition) Thief 35/Mage 21/Cleric 20/Fighter 8 (no idea what those eight fighter levels are doing for him). Though he's only using a +3 longsword. Bhaalspawn almost certainly has a better weapon or two going for them then a freakin' +3 longsword.
Having said that, although in game a level 34 mage/sorcerer is going to win over that build because in Baldur's Gate Mage's are the ultimate winz, in practice D&D setting Cyric's avatar is probably going to take on the Bhaalspawn's avatar pretty evenly, if not in his favor (though, seriously, a +3 longsword, oh Prince of Lies? You couldn't find anything better at a freakin' bazaar in the desert of Tethyr?). But Cyric can make a lot more avatars then the Bhaalspawn, as that's the difference between a demipower and a greater god.
So allies are the big thing the Bhaalspawn needs. Thankfully, if they're neutral or good, there are a ton of Gods easily allied with.
An evil God has a much harder time. The three prominent evil Gods at the time of the Bhaalspawn Segas (besides Cyric, who may be the most prominent) are Talos, Iyachtu Xvim, and Shar. Iyachtu Xvim is basically a non-starter: he's already on the run from Cyric most times, and Bane is going to come and eat his soul in a few years, anyway. Allying with him would basically just doom the Bhaalspawn in the end, as reborn Bane is not going to appreciate people who allied with his upstart son. Which leads you to Talos and Shar, both Gods known for backstabbing the heck out of other Gods and eating other Gods divinity whenever they get the appropriate chance. Not really allies you'd want at your back, as they're just going to be looking at the chance to betray the Bhaalspawn and get themselves some yummy demigod profile.
...Evil Bhaalspawns's should probably just stay mortal, conquer the Sword Coast and beyond, and maybe eventually go to the outer planes and eat Gargos and and become a diety through him. No one cares about Gargos. I can't even be bothered to actually check if I'm spelling his name right, even.
Oh well, like I said, I don't know much about the Forgotten Realms. That said, couldn't you muscle in and be the God of "murder done by murdered people coming back to avenge their murders" or some other incredibly specific niché?
Or, since there seems to be different gods for different races but with similar jobs, be the god of murder avenging for [Charname's Race]?
Either way, becoming a God doesn't really seem that fun to me. I usually pick the "stay an incredibly powerful, death-cheating, interplanar-travelling, mega-awesome, elf-chick loving" adventurer that I have played my way through from BG1 to BG2EE. That way I can pretend the adventure continues.
But when that point comes up to ascend at the end of ToB, and Minsc almost begs me to stay and be bros....its a hard choice...but in the runs where I do ascend I have no doubt Minsc would become one of my chosen, and when he does eventually die, me, him and Boo could go shove a boot of justice up Cyrics ass, but then we would see him imprisoned in that throne and be all bummed out we can't deliver a good justice fueled ass kicking. Then we'd go hang with Torm and Keldorn and knock back a few.
...
If your wondering why there are so many mummified Kobolds around, now you know.
If so ... it seems your character is kind of doomed T_T
Or, to be more specific: in D&D Next or whatever it is, canon Bhaalspawn Abdel Uselessface died to Suddenly Competent and Certainly Evil Viekaag or whatever his name was when one of them fell in to the avatar of the Slayer, and Bhaal's essence has released itself. D&D Next is now doing an adventure series about the consequence of that essence hanging around in Baldur's Gate city. How will it end? Probably with the status quo, honestly. I think after the Spellplague caused Forgotten Realms fans to start screaming and throwing epileptic fits on their boards they're going to probably back away from changing things so suddenly again (hey, guys, remember when they completely ruined Ravenloft? How about Die, Venca, Die, anyone? Oh, oh, and wasn't the Faction War the best thing ever to happen to the Planescape setting?- sigh, TSR/WotC, sigh). This generation of D&D players have grown up with Cyric as their god of Murder, and bringing Bhaal back would cause as much fuss as it did when Cyric took over as the god of murder.
(Short to say, WotC can never win. But sometimes, I doubt they even try.)
Talk about CHARNAME's godhood instead, I advise. It's a much more happy scenario.