Archer or Kensai? (For taking through both games)
SilentFox
Member Posts: 19
Hi everyone, not sure if some of this has been discussed before.
Currently considering one of the aforementioned characters to run through both games with so what I would like to know is:
1) Are the bows and such fixed now? As in can a +4 bow hit enemies requiring such a weapon without the relevant enchanted ammo.
2) Would going for longbows over crossbows or the often praised short-bows still be viable throughout both games?
Or am I just better off gritting my teeth through early squishy and picking the Kensai (not quite sure on what weapons I'd focus on mind you as a pure Kensai)
Currently considering one of the aforementioned characters to run through both games with so what I would like to know is:
1) Are the bows and such fixed now? As in can a +4 bow hit enemies requiring such a weapon without the relevant enchanted ammo.
2) Would going for longbows over crossbows or the often praised short-bows still be viable throughout both games?
Or am I just better off gritting my teeth through early squishy and picking the Kensai (not quite sure on what weapons I'd focus on mind you as a pure Kensai)
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2) I think keeping the above in mind it would be much more tedious to play through with long bows, since +3 arrows are only available in ToB and you don't have any ammo-generating launchers. The extra damage/THAC0 from long bows/composites doesn't really make up for this in BG2.
I had a feeling it would still be that way but had to make sure as I hadn't seen anything pointing one way or the other. So it appears its still either shortbows, crossbows or don't bother. :P
In which case the Kensai seems to be the leading favourite thus far.
Don't know of any longbows with unlimited ammo so they will have trouble in BG2.
Archers rock in BG1 but not so powerful in BG2.
If you go Kensai take along a druid or ranger.
As for Kensai's would anyone perhaps be helpful enough to point out some viable weapon focuses for them? (I only remember for Kensai/mages it was katana's) I was toying with the idea of warhammers possibly.
Long sword has huge choice available. Just not the best individual weapon.
Scimitar also good. All these have good pieces available early, for killer weapon late on go with Halberd.
Composite Longbow +1 (arguably best for archers due to all their thac0 bonuses): 3kg abouts
Longbow of Marksmanship +2 (second best weapon, you trade 1 thac0 gained compared to CL +1 for 1 damage lost): Available in Chapter 4 and part of the story quest
Shortbow +1: Buyable for 2kg (ish) also in Beregost; You'll be fighting with your thieves (like Imoen) if you use this
Eagle Bow: Available once you unlock Baldur's Gate after completing a quest line. 1 Less damage than the LoM, equal thac0.
In order to not step on thief toes etc, you arguably want Longbows in BG1 and there are 2 really good ones that will last you all game long. The problem comes in the form of BG2:
The only weapons (which an archer can achieve GRAND mastery in) are Crossbow, Longbow and Short Bow.
Of these, only 2 options have bows which create their own ammo and thus can be used (reliably) against high magical weapon immune enemies:
Firetooth +4 (can buy at watchers keep, upgradable in ToB to +5) Crossbow
Tansheron's Bow +3 (Buyable in Trademeet, arrows receive +3 to hit only, arrow damage is limited to 1-6)
Gesen Bow +4 (only deals 2 damage as piercing, but with all your archer bonuses this should still be rather high. Projectile fires EXTREMELY slow so you'll want to be closer to your enemies. Also deals 1d8 lightning. )
Personally I find it hard to play an archer at this point. While I love my archer, knowing my preferred weapon (longbow) is the worst option in BG2 makes me sad. Furthermore, arrows get HEAVILY nerfed in BG2.
I had hoped in the EE would restore arrows to their BG1 state and add a longbow that made its own ammo but unfortunately it didn't. While Kensai will have a bigger issue in the early game (archer is so silly in BG1 its amusing), they have a lot better options mid to late game bg2 depending on your weapon choices.
As to weapon choices for a Kensai, lots of options to consider but I'd rather pick one (or two) to focus on and maybe even dual wield through both games. Most of the classes I've played through as before its never been an issue :P
We have a few options there. Obviously Flails and Warhammers are good options for both games. You can get a Flail +1 early in BGEE, the warhammer +2 rather early as well.
Longsword is a reasonable option in BGEE, but starts falling off in BG2 unless you go to WK's really early.
Scimitar's are really good if you don't mind killing Drizzt in BG1, between a WK scimitar and belm, you can seriously rock some damage in BG2
Axes have 2 rather nice early options in BG2 (Frostreaver and Stonefire are both +3 weapons that you can acquire in 2 rather easy quests). The downside is that your good axes in BG1 appear rather late.
There is only 1 magical katana in BG1 and its only +1, but CF is available relatively early in BG2 and there is another decent katana in WK.
These all assume you want to dual wield: my suggestion is a staff based kensai:
here are my reasons:
1. Plenty of powerful magically enchanted options available early and often in both games
2. In BG1, not only is a staff +1 one of the first available magical weapons (as a drop), even if you give it to someone else you don't need to worry about it breaking on you, like with non-magical metal weapons.
3. You'll be able to hit everything in BGEE, EXCEPT for the Greater Wolfwere (staff of striking I think doesn't effect him).
4. Blunt weapon, so you'll have an easier time hitting most things when you're still a low level.
downsides:
1. Number 3 mentioned above
2. its a 1d6 weapon
Greatsword (aka 2h sword) could also be a nice option. Maces aren't bad either with the addition of stupifier in BGEE.
Though Warhammers and Flails have good options further down the road in BG2 still, its nice that there are plenty of viable choices for a Kensai to pursue as opposed to the archer (longbows just feel like they fit that more).
The issue really comes into effect knowing you can't get full pips in TWF, and 5 points in each weapon until level 24. While Grand Mastery etc, aren't as important for your offhand weapon (where the additional attacks don't apply), you can't necessarily throw it away either.
Take the flail and warhammer for example:
In BG1: you'd want warhammers simply due to the early available Warhammer +2. In BG2 though, you have to wait until you finish the Windspear hills questline to gain the key that will allow you to get your best hammer until chapter 6. And that hammer is WORSE than Flail of Ages (which you can get as you complete your stronghold quest).
That said, once you get Crom Faeyr, you can make an argument that it is better in your mainhand until you get FoA back up to +4 or +5.
Personally I prefer my kensai's as elves with Longsword and Shortsword so I'm weird ^^.
It would have been nice had they added some more weapons mind you but still, I think I'll give the Kensai a whirl, thanks for all the helpful comments.
For BG1 It'd most likely be: Khalid, Jaheira, Branwen, Imoen.. and then likely Neera. BG2 I'm not 100% sure on as yet although Keldorn is almost always a certain pick for me unless I am playing an Inquisitor.
Honestly the downside to this is IF you use Khalid. Khalid already starts with ++ in Longsword and is capable of getting ++++ in longsword (just like your PC, assuming you put none in shortsword).
I'd have to say that everard + gww is even better than energy blades...
You can still dual wield and with Unyielding +5 you also have axxes to one of the top melee weapons.
Not sure about BG1 but I think there is a returning axe there as well.
My issue was more with the enchanted longbows like Taralash and the Mana Bow not being able to hit certain things later on in the saga (due to a lack of +4/5 arrows though maybe they fixed that?) Hence not wanting to roll a kit which which get better and better and then just suddenly become mediocre mid-way through BG2.
Although on the flip-side there are likely enough proficiency points available to reach GM in 2 ranged weapons so that's another possibility at least.
They will really make a difference in tough encounters thanks to their favored enemies. They especially work great against single strong targets like Dragons because they can weaken them greatly before melee combat even takes place using their Called Shot ability.
Besides, they can use the wide pool of arrows and namely Dispel Arrows or Arrows of Biting to quickly disable spellcasters.
I'm really surprised no one mentioned Tuigan's Bow, a shortbow that gives an additional attack. This is by far one of the best bow for Archers because it allows you to reach a maximum of 4 attacks per round at level 13. Combined with Improved Haste and Called Shot or Critical Strike it hurts a lot.
Also, why limit yourself to bows? You will get a maximum of 15 proficiency points, so you can also invest in slings and crossbows. It can also solves the problem of not being able to hit targets immune to +3 weapons.
My advise is to try this class and see how it performs. I think you will really appreciate the convenience of rarely missing a shot and of disrupting spellcasters in the very beggining of fights.
Also nice to see lots of helpful replies.
The Tuigan Bow, also mentioned above, gives 3 attacks a round, which is great for enemies that don't actually need a +3 to hit - use Arrows of Piercing and, with the Archer's existing hit and damage bonuses, you will never miss. That makes it superb for ensuring mages die almost instantly (after their protections have been removed, of course). Or use elemental arrows against those weak to those, or Arrows of Biting for lots of handy poison damage and spell interruption (particularly good against Clerics which tend not to pack so many protections on themselves).
The Gesen Bow hits a bit too slowly for my tastes, but it's still useful for it's +4 hittng and lightning damage. If you look at the proficiency charts, you can still reach Grand Mastery in a weapon if you start from scratch at level 15 I think, so you can use Long Bows all the way through BG1 then switch to either shortbows or crossbows in BG2. That would also allow you to make good use of the powerful longbow (that requires 19 strength) that you can get in Waukeen's Promenade in BG2, until you start requiring a more powerful bow later.
Actually I purposely skipped the Tuigan Bow because its terrible for archers. If you read the text on the bow itself, it says that it "sets your attacks to 3" which the archer will already have at level 9 with any long bow or short bow.
Thanks I didn't know that. In that case we have yet ANOTHER shortbow making our longbows obsolete =( I wonder if we mark it down as a bug on the bug forum if they'll change the wording.