Can Szass be killed in Neera's Quest *spoiler*

foolstone

I use traps to bring him down to near death, then he agree to teleport me back.
But I wanna to kill him, so I continue attack him and bring him to near death but can not kill him.
I stuck at that dungeon.

Does the game intend that he can not be killed?

Jalily

foolstone said:

Does the game intend that he can not be killed?

Yes.

enqenq

If you refuse to be teleported after almost killing him once, he should force teleport you out if you repeat the feat.

foolstone

After I refused, he start to cast wish-> double length time stop blah..blah... then kill my whole party in a few seconds.
Then I reloaded and time stop before he did, then he became near death and wandering around, not teleport my party, not attack, not talk...

Jalily

Szass will teleport you back if you get him to <= 10% HP. "Near Death" shows up when an enemy is at <= 25% HP, so keep damaging him.

Skaffen

He is one tough b*****d. Managed to survive my first series of traps when I rang the bell and then another full set I had set up in a room while Neera kept him busy as an iron golem. That's something like 100 d6 from the spike traps alone plus whatever the normal traps do. One could almost get the impression he was cheating somehow

shawne

Of course he was cheating, it's Szass Tam.

foolstone

Haha, he was cheating. His time stop were free and could cast a lots of spell in one round.

Gilad

Even when he was cheating, he had no chance against inquisitor's dispel :-)

karnor00

Presumably mind flayer int drain could kill him? It seems to kill pretty much everything after all.

Ferozban

nope he can absolutly not be killed. not even with mind flayer drain
apparently he has endless int. i hit him like 30 times with a mind flayer and nothing. in the end he was near death and teleported us home.

really sad i wished i could kill the mighty szass tam

Lathlaer

He isn't even that mighty — his power is mostly political. From RP and mechanical point of view, 20+ level spawn of god should be easily his equal in terms of power. And actually is, since I humiliated him and kicked his ass. Of course he acts like Irenicus in Spellhold ("Enough! I have no time for this" - as if he, being Near Death, was winning the fight).

Jarleale

foolstone said:

Haha, he was cheating. His time stop were free and could cast a lots of spell in one round.

Actually, I think he used wish, that gives improved alacrity and double length time stop.

If someone managed to kill him, I guess they would be stuck in Thay because of the broken questline.

foolstone

Jarleale said:

foolstone said:

Haha, he was cheating. His time stop were free and could cast a lots of spell in one round.

Actually, I think he used wish, that gives improved alacrity and double length time stop.

If someone managed to kill him, I guess they would be stuck in Thay because of the broken questline.

Yes, he use a ring to cast wish and get improved alacrity and double length time stop, that is much faster than my sorcerer with robe of venca.

SpaceInvader

Lathlaer said:

He isn't even that mighty — his power is mostly political.

You have no idea what you're talking about

Ferozban

isnt szass tam the guy who controls legions of undead? yeah totally weak

enqenq

Maybe he controls them through empty but convincing promises of lowered taxes and gender equality? Did you think of THAT?

Serpion

Pff... by the way he is bugged a lot. I hit him to near death, then agreed to teleport away from him... but in next second he cast wish and destroy my party Probably problem is time stop which used a lot by me.

kryptix

I've hit him at least 800 hp in damage after he cast wish and he still won't die or teleport me... What should I do now? I did take him on with a 7 million exp party but I'm kinda stuck now... I basically did one timestop IA combo before wish and another one after to get him to near death both times... This is with SCS too so he doesn't seem too tough...

kryptix

Just adding a screenshot of him bugged.

Ferozban

just restart the fight. i had that bug too once that he wouldnt cast us away , but it was a one time thing.

PS: i aslo keep the "old" hexxats portrait so cool. a tragedy that she would only stay so short.

Archaos

Ferozban said:

nope he can absolutly not be killed. not even with mind flayer drain
apparently he has endless int. i hit him like 30 times with a mind flayer and nothing. in the end he was near death and teleported us home.

really sad i wished i could kill the mighty szass tam

The Mind Flayer drain not only is the cheesiest tactic in the game, undead should be immune to level/int drain anyway. Undead have no brain ffs.

Also you shouldn't be able to kill Szass Tam normally. He has the levels of Irenicus, he's a Lich and HE RULES FREAKING THAY.

"Szass Tam is the Zulkir of Necromancy in Thay, its most influential Red Wizard, and—observers say—the true ruler of Thay. A lich for the last two hundred-odd years, Szass Tam achieved his present power through great arrogance, the skills and preparation to back up his overwhelming ambitions, and the brilliant schemes of one of the most cunning and intelligent beings in all Faerûn."

I'm sorry but when I say posts or threads that say that they cannot kill Elminster or Szass Tam or whatever uber wizard, it makes me want to bang my head on the desk.

Even if you manage to "kill" Szass Tam, it was just a simulacrum or clone or he just respawns as a proper Lich should.

Tedronai

I had myself, Anomen, and Sarevok right in the position where he spawned (after I had Imoen ring the bell), and literally once the battle begun, us three bashed him and within 10 seconds (it very well might have been 5), he was "Near Death" and then his surrender conversation prompt popped up.

I guess I have to give him 5 seconds to pop up all his shields

kryptix

Archaos said:

Ferozban said:

nope he can absolutly not be killed. not even with mind flayer drain
apparently he has endless int. i hit him like 30 times with a mind flayer and nothing. in the end he was near death and teleported us home.

really sad i wished i could kill the mighty szass tam

The Mind Flayer drain not only is the cheesiest tactic in the game, undead should be immune to level/int drain anyway. Undead have no brain ffs.

Also you shouldn't be able to kill Szass Tam normally. He has the levels of Irenicus, he's a Lich and HE RULES FREAKING THAY.

"Szass Tam is the Zulkir of Necromancy in Thay, its most influential Red Wizard, and—observers say—the true ruler of Thay. A lich for the last two hundred-odd years, Szass Tam achieved his present power through great arrogance, the skills and preparation to back up his overwhelming ambitions, and the brilliant schemes of one of the most cunning and intelligent beings in all Faerûn."

I'm sorry but when I say posts or threads that say that they cannot kill Elminster or Szass Tam or whatever uber wizard, it makes me want to bang my head on the desk.

Even if you manage to "kill" Szass Tam, it was just a simulacrum or clone or he just respawns as a proper Lich should.

Actually my bhaal spawn is like a 26 fighter 22 illusionist well outleveling the canon szass tam with epic equipment and enough wisdom to abuse wish so if you think in add terms she should be an even match at least. With 5 other 7-8 million exp buddies szass tam should pretty much try to run rather than fight us 1 v 6 if it was a canon battle just like he wouldn't take on elminster, khelban and 3 Harper epic characters at once.

My neera alone is like a level 36 Mage with all of the hla spells same with imoen so that makes them two of the most powerful archmages in faerun, which was kinda proven when one took him down before wish and the other toon him down after in one timestop each.

I play with SCS so he has all of his shields instantly too, but the thing is, canon wise, a bhaal spawn has probably nearly as much divine essence as a chosen of mystra so your talking about a 250 year old lich vs a demigod... Not a foregone conclusion.

Archaos

@kryptix

"My character" arguments don't say much when you compare a video game character to a character from lore and books.
I can also make a character that is overpowered with in-game mechanics or even cheats, that can defeat Mystra or Asmodeus, that's not saying much.

The "real" Szass Tam if he put that INT to use, would use Simulacrum spells to do anything, would have contingencies to be teleported back and even if you managed to defeat him, he would respawn using his phylactery (that none of the BG liches or demiliches seem to do) in Thay.

Then you would have all of the Red Wizards plus an army of undead teleported back to you.

There's a reason you don't have FR characters in video games that can be killed, like Elminster or Szass Tam or Larloch (especially not Larloch). Because in PnP or the novels, they would use their full range of abilities, unlike the games.

The only exception is Drizzt I think. He can be killed in BG2, right? I know he can in BG1. Since he's not that amazing stat-wise and isn't epic. He's just a great warrior.

kryptix

Drizzt is a chosen of a god too but he gets resurrected in the books by his god so he is kill able. Elminster apparently can survive being disintegrated so he's basically invulnerable but if you kill him it still takes him out if action for a while. FR epic characters like szass tam often do get permanently killed though and a demigod like your in game character would be the type to do it so it's not out of the question. It's not quite like larloch who is considerably older and more powerful.

Even khelban etc have died though so saying certain people should be invulnerable is a stretch. I think szass tam should be kill able since shandalar is.

Onestep

kryptix said:

Drizzt is a chosen of a god too but he gets resurrected in the books by his god so he is kill able. Elminster apparently can survive being disintegrated so he's basically invulnerable but if you kill him it still takes him out if action for a while. FR epic characters like szass tam often do get permanently killed though and a demigod like your in game character would be the type to do it so it's not out of the question. It's not quite like larloch who is considerably older and more powerful.

Even khelban etc have died though so saying certain people should be invulnerable is a stretch. I think szass tam should be kill able since shandalar is.

Shandalar is an incredibly minor character in the lore compared to Szass Tam though.

foolstone

The Gods themselves can be killed, right? That is the source of BG game.

adormitul

^And how many died a good part of them was attribuited to mortals.

Twani

That was during the Time of Troubles, when gods were reduced to their avatar form- and only their avatar form. A mortal can slay an avatar relatively easy, but otherwise, a mortal can slay no god higher then demigod (though mortal's slaying demigods and thus becoming gods is common- that's how the Dead Three rose to power, plus a deal with Jergal). You also generally have to kill the god on their own plane, where they have full control and access to everything on their plane and thus could say, change the ground beneath you to lava and drown you in it with a flick of the wrist (or throw you a gazillion feet in the air, where no one in Baldur's Gate world has learned feather fall). So even a demigod can be a tough fight.

Once you have demigod ranks, you can kill any god you want- if you can. It's not exactly easy.

bob_veng

For me it was too easy for a boss fight because he doesn't use illusion or spell immunities. He doesn't seem to have particularly nasty spells in his repertoire either. Can't compare with the easiest of liches from SoA.