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Can Szass be killed in Neera's Quest *spoiler*

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Comments

  • kryptixkryptix Member Posts: 741
    bob_veng said:

    For me it was too easy for a boss fight because he doesn't use illusion or spell immunities. He doesn't seem to have particularly nasty spells in his repertoire either. Can't compare with the easiest of liches from SoA.

    I think for me it was due to his not being quite as optimized as most SCS mages. Basically, since I always got him with something before he cast improved alacrity, he was never able to kill any of my characters. Then again my two main fighters can both take down a pit fiend in a couple of hits with Critical Strikes up so theres not too much I'm afraid of from a mage once my weaker characters have protection from magical energy up... The Fire Lich in the fire giant temple was actually much harder, same with the fight with the dragon and 10 fire giants including the fire giant priest...

    bob_veng
  • bob_vengbob_veng Member Posts: 2,286
    korkorran is also from ee and he's at least 15 times tougher than szass. it's like two different people designed the two fights without there being a solid guiding hand for both.

    they could have been on a similar level of difficulty but using different tactics. korkorran uses illusion and szass uses pretty much nothing.

  • tennisgolfbolltennisgolfboll Member Posts: 457
    Archaos said:

    Ferozban said:

    nope he can absolutly not be killed. not even with mind flayer drain
    apparently he has endless int. i hit him like 30 times with a mind flayer and nothing. in the end he was near death and teleported us home.

    really sad i wished i could kill the mighty szass tam

    The Mind Flayer drain not only is the cheesiest tactic in the game, undead should be immune to level/int drain anyway. Undead have no brain ffs.

    Also you shouldn't be able to kill Szass Tam normally. He has the levels of Irenicus, he's a Lich and HE RULES FREAKING THAY.

    "Szass Tam is the Zulkir of Necromancy in Thay, its most influential Red Wizard, and—observers say—the true ruler of Thay. A lich for the last two hundred-odd years, Szass Tam achieved his present power through great arrogance, the skills and preparation to back up his overwhelming ambitions, and the brilliant schemes of one of the most cunning and intelligent beings in all Faerûn."

    I'm sorry but when I say posts or threads that say that they cannot kill Elminster or Szass Tam or whatever uber wizard, it makes me want to bang my head on the desk.

    Even if you manage to "kill" Szass Tam, it was just a simulacrum or clone or he just respawns as a proper Lich should.
    Charname could kill bhaal. He would rofl stomp elminster and tammy solo

  • OnestepOnestep Member Posts: 225
    edited January 2014

    Archaos said:

    Ferozban said:

    nope he can absolutly not be killed. not even with mind flayer drain
    apparently he has endless int. i hit him like 30 times with a mind flayer and nothing. in the end he was near death and teleported us home.

    really sad i wished i could kill the mighty szass tam

    The Mind Flayer drain not only is the cheesiest tactic in the game, undead should be immune to level/int drain anyway. Undead have no brain ffs.

    Also you shouldn't be able to kill Szass Tam normally. He has the levels of Irenicus, he's a Lich and HE RULES FREAKING THAY.

    "Szass Tam is the Zulkir of Necromancy in Thay, its most influential Red Wizard, and—observers say—the true ruler of Thay. A lich for the last two hundred-odd years, Szass Tam achieved his present power through great arrogance, the skills and preparation to back up his overwhelming ambitions, and the brilliant schemes of one of the most cunning and intelligent beings in all Faerûn."

    I'm sorry but when I say posts or threads that say that they cannot kill Elminster or Szass Tam or whatever uber wizard, it makes me want to bang my head on the desk.

    Even if you manage to "kill" Szass Tam, it was just a simulacrum or clone or he just respawns as a proper Lich should.
    Charname could kill bhaal. He would rofl stomp elminster and tammy solo
    Don't think for a moment that CHARNAME could easily kill a fully formed god. Amelyssan may have had 99.9% of Bhaal's essence, but that last 0.1% is a huge deal, causing her to still be weaker than a demigod and not anything like a greater power, which is why CHARNAME can defeat her with relative ease (compared to a Greater Deity).

    CHARNAME could possibly beat a demigod. He might defeat an Avatar of a more powerful god by himself. But defeating a truly powerful god in the centre of their power? ...It's rarely done without the intervention of another god.

    That said, there's very little reason why CHARNAME shouldn't be able to beat Szass Tam and the like, though they would be challenging fights (to say the least!). Except the most important of all: WotC don't want you killing off too many of their characters.

    Post edited by Onestep on
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    I agree that CHARNAME's power could probably give Elminster and Szass Tam a run for their money, but their archmages with long plans and would probably just be using clones while hanging around comfortably in Thay/Shadowdale. Or at least, they should, if they have any sense. If you took the fight to them, I think it would be harder- trying to kill Szass Tam in Thay would be like fighting all of Thay, and it is hard for six people to kill a country. The Bhaalspawn is pretty badass, though; if anyone could do it, they could.

    (Though, as said, WoTC would never allow it. The only one you're allowed to kill is Drizzt.)

    CHARNAME could not kill Bhaal, though: Bhaal is not a demigod, and mortals simply do not have the ability to kill a god past demigod rank unless that god has been depowered ala the Time of Troubles. However, Bhaal is dead, and apparently staying dead, so it's not like it really matters.

    Also, yeh, Szass Tam is way too easy. I hope SCS takes a look at that.

  • LathlaerLathlaer Member Posts: 475
    edited January 2014

    Lathlaer said:

    He isn't even that mighty — his power is mostly political.

    You have no idea what you're talking about :)
    I think I do. He is nowhere near as powerful and old as some of the most powerful spellcasters in Faerun. His 200+ years are literally NOTHING compared to some of the oldest, most ancient beings in the Realms. Search for the list of most powerful spellcasters in Faerun and see that he barely makes top20.

    I was comparing that to the Bhaalspawn as well, who is by no means some unnamed NPC who just happened to reach high level. Having the possibility to reach 31 level as a mage, MainChar is not only a child of god but also has potentially more raw power than either Elminster (29th level in AD&D AFAIK) or Simbul (30?).

    That's what I meant when I said about being powerful. I cannot deny him his influences as a political figure, of course. Being a zulkir comes with certain benefits. So he is a powerful 'man', but not in terms of his raw magic skills.

    And I hope that it goes without saying that what I said about him should be read in certain context when it comes to measuring who is "powerful" and who is not. Obviously he is more than miles away from an average magic user.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,581
    edited June 2015
    Szass Tam is level 29 in AD&D, just like Elminster. The Simbul and Irenicus are both 30.

    The highest level mage ever is Karsus, who was level 41, but he was light years ahead of any other mage even during Netheril era.


    Ops sorry just noticed i did necromancy with that post, plz delete it @Tresset

  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    @Arunsun, @Tresset - no, wait, I'd missed this thread before and it's interesting, so let it live again.

    Several posters above appear to have assumed that Larloch is unkillable in-game. Actually that's not so: I tested it a few months ago just to see if it's possible, and indeed Larloch can be killed (or at least the form in which he appears to you can be killed, which may or may not be the same thing). It doesn't even require cheesey tricks, just conventional attack, although you have to be fast.

  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,028
    I was going to say that Larloch being kill is pretty irrelevant, since he's a lich and it's not like you destroyed his phylactery, but one could say the same of Szass Tam. You kind of start to wonder why he's unkillable in the first place. It's not like killing him would actually stick.

    In fact, it occurs to me that every single lich you kill in BG2 (except for Kangaxx, whose demilich transformation indicates that he no longer has a phylactery) is actually perfectly fine and was just mildly inconvenienced by the party's actions. That'd probably be bad news for Charname, except that I'm not sure many liches would even bother to seek revenge over something as trivial as being stabbed a bunch.

    Grum
  • GrumGrum Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,099
    Jarrakul: I'm pretty sure mos liches wouldn't want to make Charname an enemy.

    "Ok, he wandered by and destroyed my physical shell, that sucked. Good thing he wasn't actually angry at me. That could have gone bad."

    By ToB, a vampire matron takes one look at Charname and goes suicidal. No fleeing, no bargaining, just "crap, I'm dead." By the time Charname turns down godhood, he will be lvl 30+, throwing away +4 weapons for not being 'good enough.' That is not the kind of person you track down to fight, especially is said person can't even remember your name.

    SmilingSword
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,028
    Certainly true on an individual level, but there are a good number of liches in the game. If they were all legitimately angry, and decided to ambush Charname all at once, I think the odds would be decidedly in their favor against most party setups. Especially since they could keep trying every day or so until Charname tracked down every single phylactery.

  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    He isn't killable as far as I can see. 1000 HP damage and nothing. He's a simulacrum or something.

  • TripflipTripflip Member Posts: 1
    edited July 2015
    I aplogize for being the latecomer for this thread, but I only just now got to this content (with Neera in my party). Szass ordered me to do his bidding or fight him, so I fought him. The fight lasted a long time, as I'd already used my time stops and many of my good spells in the arena, but I got Szass to near death and he teleported me back to the clearing. He didn't give me any dialogue other than something like "haven't you had enough of a beating?" Jaheira had cast creeping doom on him, so I don't know if him getting constantly interrupted prevented something to happen or not, but I ended up in the clearing. I had no idea what to do next, so I searched around and found this thread.

    Reading through it though, it looks like Szass is unkillable and getting teleported away breaks this quest? That's ridiculous. Why would they even give you the dialogue option to fight him if doing so breaks the quest? Especially when he orders the player to submit otherwise. Of course the player is going to want to fight back. Why would they make it so fighting him breaks the game?

  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    " Why would they make it so fighting him breaks the game?"

    Some things are a bit buggy, but I'm trying to think back, and I managed to finish Neera's quests even with him being unkillable. I forget exactly how it was resolved though. If I can recall, I'll post something.

  • FrdNwsmFrdNwsm Member Posts: 1,069
    edited July 2015
    Here's a post from the discussion I had in another folder. I suggest you restart and do it the way the scenario is intended to run. It worked OK for me that way; it was only after I had finished the quest that I went back and force attacked Szass Tam when I first met him. That sort of broke the scenario. I think this quote is from Gallowglass.

    "What he did have left, however, was the Ring of MinHP1 which he wears. Items of MinHP1 are what the devs assign to characters who are meant to be unkillable, their effect being that the wearer's HP isn't allowed to fall below 1 regardless of damage taken, so that they never die.

    It used to be the case that items of MinHP1 could be defeated by killing the "unkillable" with stat drain instead of damage, but the EEs are supposed to have fixed that exploit in the well-known cases (such as Arkanis Gath). Probably they've also fixed it in the case of Szass Tam ... but I wonder, has anyone tested this by attacking him with stat drain?

    It's just a matter of curiosity, though: you wouldn't actually want to kill Szass Tam, because then there'd be no-one to teleport you home, so you'd have broken your game."

  • madmaximusmadmaximus Member Posts: 134
    Jarrakul said:

    Certainly true on an individual level, but there are a good number of liches in the game. If they were all legitimately angry, and decided to ambush Charname all at once, I think the odds would be decidedly in their favor against most party setups. Especially since they could keep trying every day or so until Charname tracked down every single phylactery.

    Viconia: Turning Undead

  • BehemotBehemot Member Posts: 26
    I presume the right order of things is to kill all them knights, than everything in the pit followed by Vicross after Tham teleports you to her estate. Than you beat him to near death so he teleports you to Tethyr.

    If so, I did everything and got no quest update regarding her death nor any dialogue with Neera upon being returned to Tethyr. Can I somehow call that dialogue through console? (Really, the game is still so very buggy regarding the new questlines…)

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 615
    That bug happened to me on playing on PC as well. I'm not sure why, but it seems sometimes Neera's dialogue script upon returning from Thay just fails to fire. Reloaded my game and did the fight again and this time she spoke up correctly.

  • BehemotBehemot Member Posts: 26
    Yeah well I do not really tend to re-do all the fights again when in LoB, that's kinda…tougher, if you know what I mean :D I already did the fight with Vicross like 15 times so :D

  • ZaxaresZaxares Member Posts: 615
    Ahh yes, that would make a difference. XD For me, a couple of Spike Traps and popping Greater Whirlwinds and such on my warriors who had been positioned around where Ssazz spawns in ended that fight in Core Rules preeeeeetty quickly.

    StummvonBordwehr
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