So the war between Sword Coast and Amn: which side would have won?
bbear
Member Posts: 1,180
Had Sarevok succeeded his ambition, war would break lose between Sword Coast and Amn. Which side would have won? Sword Coast has the Flaming Fist and Sarevok, while Amn has the Cowled Wizards. Also, there is the ongoing guild war between Irenicus and the Shadow Thieves. Not to mention that Underdark is right around the corner of Amn.
- So the war between Sword Coast and Amn: which side would have won?72 votes
- Sword Coast6.94%
- Amn43.06%
- Stalemate9.72%
- Third Parties12.50%
- Sarevok27.78%
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So I say Amn.
The Sword Coast is a varying lot of various city states. Beregost is not ruled by Baldur's Gate for instance- it owes the Gate no tribute, just as the Gate owes no tribute to Waterdeep. Nashkel, on the other hand, is definitely Amnish and owes tribute to Amn. Because of this, I think Amn would rather easily be able to take the Sword Coast. Each city has it's own guards/army, which have not practiced together and are not really ready to work with each other. Amn might already take Baldur's Gate while the leaders of Waterdeep are still going back and forth about whether they should help a southern 'barbarian' city (every city is Barbarian, to those in Waterdeep). In no circumstances would Amn be able to take Waterdeep (too many epic level characters, including Chosen of Mystra, make that place their home), but how much is Waterdeep going to care of Baldur's Gate gets taken by Amn? Not all that much. To the people of Waterdeep, it's like asking them to care if Calimport got over-run. It's just a city they have trade ties with, not one that they consider part of their 'nation'- their nation is 'Waterdeep'.
The more pithy answer is that Amn would win, as, seriously, go attack the Flaming Fist in BG1. Then go attack the Amnish Guards in BG2. Major difference, eh?
Also... if u include third parties as possible winners, then this debates gets all very complicated and a matter of pure speculation.
Thus I am gonna treat the question as:
In a military conflict between Amn and Baldur's Gate, as devised by Sarevok, which side would win?
And the answer is Amn. For reasons @Twani has outlined. Baldur's Gate is an independent city state. Amn is an empire with much greater resources, manpower and even overseas colonies, which implies a powerful navy.
Sarevok cannot be considered a boon for Baldur's Gate's military strength. His goal was to cause a war, not to win it. He couldn't care less if Baldur's Gate burned to the ground before the Amnish war machine, he'd probably welcome it as he believes bloodshed and chaos would grant him godhood.
Around the time of the game, Baldur's Gate--an independent city-state--had a population that ranged between 86,000 - 115,000. Its guard garrison comprised only 60 men, and its small navy of seven ships had about 300 men. The Flaming Fist was considered its standing army and included around 1,700 men. It had a reputation for being one of the best mercenary companies in Faerun. Like Amn, Baldur's Gate had colonized other regions, including Maztica and Chult, and maintained excellent relations with Waterdeep. Overall, Baldur's Gate had a reputation for being a small but very strong region, particularly in respect to its military.
Amn was considered a full nation of approximately 3,600,000 and was ruled by the Council of Six. Athkatla's population, based on the season, ranged between 130,000 - 400,000. Although the city had a garrison of 4,000 men, and a navy of 8 ships and 900 men, its military strength was considered relatively weak. The nation was further destabilized by tensions with Tethyr, a rising competitor, and several of Amn's cities were close to open rebellion, ready to join Tethyr. It was also competing with Waterdeep and Sembia.
The Cowled Wizards were largely an unknown factor--dedicated to supporting the nation's mercantile activities--and even its own members did not know the organization's strength since they tended to operate in isolated cells. Notably, they were not well-liked by the magic-fearing general populace and acted in secret.
If we're boiling this down to who wins, Sarevok certainly wins given his goals. But you're asking who would win the war, which he ultimately is not concerned about, so that again leaves the two nations or a third party. None of the independent organizations would be powerful enough to seize and hold one nation, let alone a nation and a city-state/region. That leaves Tethyr among any immediate neighbors, and it also would not have the stability or strength to seize all of Amn and extend further north.
I picked stalemate simply because it would be dependent on three factors:
- Would Waterdeep get involved in favor of Baldur's Gate (not that unlikely a possibility)?
- Would Amn collapse internally as some of its cities allied with Tethyr when the war started?
- Would the military strength of the Flaming Fist be enough to overcome the Cowled Wizards if the latter were to get involved (but then risk that the general populace favor the soldiers due to their inherent distrust of magic)?
I don't recall ever seeing a reference to the Sythsillian Empire (even in Lands of Intrigue, which deals exclusively with the area) outside of the games, and I think it may have been a term introduced in Baldur's Gate II to refer to the remnants of the monster horde that had previously been attacking the Sword Coast nations.
"The Lord's Alliance" is a defensive thing to oppose several foes: The Zhentarim, The Shadow Thieves, The Red Wizards of Thay, and Luskan, a city ruled by Pirates in the far north. Unless Amn was first to attack, I don't think the Lord's Alliance would even come into it.
Amn on the other side is a large country with Akhathla alone almost as big as entire Baldur's gate land. When you add Entire BG2 lands + Riatavin and several other big cities (Nashkell included) you see a really big country and amount of soldiers.
If it came to blows and war between Baldur's gate and Amn chances are around 90% that Amn would win. BG got a lot of mercs from Sarevok but overall it is Amn which is wealthier, bigger and with stronger relations.... just think what many Cowled wizards would do to the Baldur army and Baldur's gate even with some good and strong wizards is no match for the Cowled wizards.
While the armies of Athkatla leave, the Shadow Thieves would probably take over.
The cowled wizards are strong but seem to have a rather severe lack of archmages which is not the case up north, and one level 40 Mage can probably laugh while taking out 30 level 10-15 ones...
Amnite victory would have suited him wonderfully.
The iron shortage pretty much would stop most of the other forces in The Sword Coast fighting... And Sarevok and his group would probably avoid the fight because Sarevok just wants both sides to kill as much of each other as possible.
Anyway, the So/y/thsillian War starts in 1370 and lasts until 1374, with So/y/thsillis' forces still in control of Murann in 1374, having sacked several Amnian cities and forts, including Trademeet, on the way there. Although it is listed as a strategic defeat for Amn, most of this action is taking place after BG and SoA are over, so it may not have much bearing. More relevant might be Amn's Maztican enterprises and the secession of Riatavin to Tethyr.
The curious may visit: http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sothillisian_War for more details.
My read is that although Amn is the larger nation with larger armies, they are primarily a mercantile power, and given how extended their resources are, if they went to war, even if they won against Baldur's Gate and their allies they would be dangerously overstretched in the face of future conflicts.
- Blue
They would make a killing... hehe... killing... ok, I'll stop