so, I guess the general consensus is, if I want to play a game with cool characters, I need to play another bioware game.
Dragon Age or Mass Effect? Wish I could add a poll. I hear horrible things about Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. One of my roommates in college played both, and I tried DA but didnt' like a lot of it (I used the Baldur's Gate view because the other was just too annoying, though I could deal with it in NWN). Mass Effect looked more interesting and different from what I usually play.
@booinyoureyes I've said uh huh regarding muk's info because I thought the other post was missing (I haven't realized another page cam out of nothing).
I have heard many horror stories. But, well, if you still remember it fondly, it can't be that bad.
That reminds me of a show I watched once. It added a bunch of mysteries every week with promises to answer crazy questions, but then they paid us off with more crazy questions then the finale came and nothing was answered.
It was basically a Ponzi scheme.
I LOST about 100 hours of my life watching it, and I regret every one of them.
Bet you can't guess what that pile of manure was
I would say it is a lot like that. There were a lot of things that were left without an ending or answer, and a lot of things got very stupid endings and answers. They killed off a character on twitter! I mean really? You can't kill off the nice reporter (there was another bitch reporter that you could beat up in every game ) in the game? I didn't know until long after I was over with the game and the extended cut failed to win me back. Then there was one of my favorite quarians (Tali's race) who died in just a news report my in game computer got as a message. It was all stupid and not emotional at all some of these things. So yes, there is more to my hate on the third game than the endings
Then when you get to the ending things just got all sorts of messed up. The original endings literally ended with your crew crashing on a planet, looking around, and then the credits rolled. With a high EMS score (stupidest system ever) you might get a scene where Shepard breathes showing he is alive, but it doesn't give much hope, especially towards finding your friends. The extended cut made the ship actually lift back off thank god, but you still have no idea what to think of the breathe scene that got reused. There were also still no proper epilogues for the characters so that is basically it for them. That is a big problem for me. Wanna know what I like about the ending of Baldur's Gate? The epilogues let you, despite it being the end of the game, understand where your friends have gone after it was all over. You continue to see their life, sometimes to their end. They could have killed of Tali for all I cared and I told many this even in a letter to Bioware during those times, and I wouldn't have care. You know what? I got to technically be with them until the end. Yet this is just a reminder that it is a game that has an ending, and beyond that point it is just a dark hole of nothing. The world ceases to exist at that point unless they make a sequal.
Wow I am getting ranty. I better stop there on Mass Effect TBH. I say go for it, but go into the last game expecting the worst. Ask questions. You will find horrendous answers.
Also you asked about Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I am not sure which DA you tried but if you haven't tried Origins then I would recommend that. It is a spiritual successor to BG and did well to make the combat tactical. On higher difficulties you are really left making all these tactical decisions that could mean life or death. And yes there are totally cheesy tactics (try making a party of only dual wielders. dual flurry into whirlwind and you kill practically any group you run across with that)
the majority in the fanbase is like that! sometimes you have to look at the brightside though and remember the journey for what it was. I do not regret being introduced to characters like Tali. I am honestly glad that a fan outcry got her a romance in ME2 despite lore complications (quarian human incompatibilities). I was actually with Ashley in the first game and I said screw her and cheated with Tali because it was too much to resist for me! (another thing wrong with ME3 is the way they don't really get mad at you for cheating as you think they would)
i was actually a little jealous of the relationship and how it can work and it may have introduced to me being an asexual, strange as it may be for a video game character to tell me this through their romance. if we were to have a "what video game character do you wish to meet in real life" thread it would totally be her. first off I absolutely love faceless characters which was my initial interest in the character over the others. funny story there is that ME3 ruined it by not only giving her a face through a picture but being so lazy as to photoshop some miss england winner. Laziness! but she is generally a badass character who proves herself in a fight in her very first scene then joins you on your quest despite her being on her pilgrimage, the quarian rite to adulthood (yeah speaking of Jaheira's romance, Tali is technically not an adult in the first game while Shepard is about 29 I think. of course ME2 is two years later with her done her pilgrimage, but there is still probably about a 10 year gap in relative life cycle species) She is generally interesting throughout as the young energetic character who wants to be everyone's friend, and also happens to love technology and is thrilled to be on your advanced ship! Then in ME2 she gets what I would call the best of the loyalty missions which I really wish I could talk about without getting spoilery if you intend to try it for yourself. To add on to all this she is one of only 2 characters who was with you through every game, the other being Garrus. This is my squad, we are awesome friends and the rest are on for the ride
also if you don't romance Tali she actually gets together with Garrus. Makes sense because they are actually compatible species, but I would kill Garrus for such thoughts! I could always kill him in ME2 if I didn't want to romance Tali. I said about 15 Shepards? they all romanced Tali
if I were ever lucky enough to be a multi millionaire one day, I would throw it all away just for a rework of this final game. I would move back in with my parents because I can't afford the rent just to get this off my back. it feels really good to get this pressure off though. it builds and I just need to let it out. i was a little overly passionate, and don't allow myself to be so for anything anymore. it seems as though whenever you get too into anything it just comes back to haunt you in the end when you are completely dissapointed.
Mass Effect provides the best experience in terms of a fully realized trilogy with imported choices and relations imo (the stuff those game do has never been done before or since to that extent) , but Dragon Age 1 is a very good game in its own right.
Edit: As for the ending of ME3, I'll agree it's still suboptimal (and that it used to be a train wreck), but the extended cut DLC significantly improved things - and for people who aren't happy with that either there's also the happy ending mod.
Mass Effect is quite boring if you're one of the players that has to look through every corner of the game, as you'll have to drive around a lot of monotonous planets.
I have a few: -Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 (classic but also one of my favorites since I can remember myself) -Magus from Chrono Trigger. Totaly badass and not that bad of a guy. -Fou-Lu from Breath of Fire 4. -Gray Fox from Metal Gear Solid.
Might come up with a few more if I think hard enough but those come to mind immediately.
I find Garrett from Thief: The Dark Project and Thief II to be a really well done protagonist (not played Thief 3 though). He does voiceover introductions to each level and manages to balance "gruff and mysterious" with "actually fairly likeable".
There's no intrusive elaboration on his morals and motivations which is great for a first person game. He just wants to get on with high end burglary and tries to avoid being drawn into various fate-of-the-world scenarios.
It's funny - I went back in my head through my favorite games, and could not come up with as many memorable characters as I expected. Huh. Anyways, a few did stick out to me: Geralt of Rivia from The Witcher series, Lord British from the Ultimas, Kefka from Final Fantasy VI, and as @Corvino mentioned, Garrett from the Thief series. I fear I've left out someone (…)
Solid Snake for me... I adore those games. MGS was my first experience of a game designed to be 'playable cinema', and I stuck with the grizzled, old hard-ass right to the end. Up to that point I'd played tonnes of run-jump-run platformers, but nothing that had placed the same emphasis on plot & character. (Similar stylistic kudos to Resident Evil & Dino Crisis, but their characters never grabbed me in the same way.)
Oh, and GLaDOS... Whenever there is cake, I remember your lies...
It's difficult to choose among many of my favorite older games, as they simply weren't advanced enough to offer very complex characters in many cases, but I have a few favorites:
The Guardian (Ultima VII): In his first appearance he was undoubtedly one of the most sinister villains I've ever come across in gaming, and the way his nature was slowly unveiled was extremely well done. I look at his cronies as an extension of him, so the supporting cast (Batlin, Hook, Elizabeth and Abraham) made it even better. Though they never even appear until the end of the game, with the exception of Batlin, their presence is felt through the story and dialogue.
Gabriel Knight: Jane Jensen deserves a lot of praise for creating such a fascinating, reluctant hero. While the first game in the series was undoubtedly the best, they all fleshed out the jaded character and simply made him feel real--something that is often quite difficult to accomplish in a game, particularly when it involves the supernatural. Those of you who agree will wet your pants when you see this.
Rakeesh (Quest for Glory II & III): One of the frequent topics of discussion on this forum is that of mentors for the PC, someone who could guide him/her through the game. That's the feeling I got when playing through these games. The character is extremely well-written and comes across as a grizzled veteran who simply wants to pass along some of his experiences. If you can make up a race called liontaurs and actually get people to care about them, you know you've done a good job.
Murray (Monkey Island series): Murray: I am a powerful demonic force! I am the harbinger of your doom! And the forces of darkness will applaud me as I STRIDE through the gates of hell carrying your head on a pike! Guybrush Threepwood: 'Stride?' Murray: All right then, 'ROLL! ROLL through the gates of hell.' Must you take the fun out of everything? Guybrush Threepwood: You're about as fearsome as a doorstop. Murray: Is it a really EVIL-looking doorstop? Enough said...
It's much easier with newer games, so I'm able to be a bit pickier about which ones I choose and why:
Thane Krios (Mass Effect 2 & 3): What a beautifully written character! I found Thane's philosophy and outlook to be fascinating, while his introduction the game showcased just how deadly he could be. Clearly having no love for his profession, he's an introspective character who shows nuances of regret, shame, compassion and hope. In fact, whatever faults the Mass Effect series may have, its story and development of all characters are brilliant.
Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II): Villains can be incredibly difficult to write, and there's often a tendency to go overboard by making them "chaotic stupid". Kreia was about as far from that as you could get. In many respects she's a tragic character, having been judged, rejected and betrayed repeatedly, leading her to descend further and further into her own psyche. By the time of the game, the scale of her manipulations is staggering once you finally understand who she is and what she has done. Yet despite all of her machination, she still reveals a vulnerability in her final conversation with you. Again, the game may have had flaws, but Kreia was brilliant.
The staff (The Dark Eye: Memoria): If you're an adventure gamer and haven't played Chains of Satinav or Memoria, get them now. If you've never tried adventures games, get them now! Chains of Satinav was a great game, if ultimately uneven, but Memoria was gorgeous in almost every respect. I don't want to give too much away and will simply say that it was the first time a talking object has ever had me on the verge of tears in a game, particularly when you realize the simple closure that it wants.
I'm very fond of the Lara Croft portrayed in the seventh Tomb Raider instalment titled Legend. Never before and never again after this one game was Lara Croft an equally appealing persona, with all the due British wit and common sense. And, to my obvious delectation, she even boldly stated that There is a @God.
I'm a big fanboy of Sephiroth. I'm almost a hipster about it, too. I got into Sephiroth before Final Fantasy VII was mainstream. (There I said it!)
In all seriousness. I bought a magazine in 97 that had a PREVIEW of FF7 and later one that got a review. A friend lent me his first cd of FF7 and I got hooked into RPGs and Sephiroth since. That was around when I was 8-10 years old.
I also loved FF7 and Sephiroth before anyone I knew, played it or was into him. So it's pretty much an unbiased love for the character and game.
nobody mentioned the more recent apocalypse girls yet, so I will have to mention them alongside Tali and Garrus as I did earlier
Clementine- Telltale Game's The Walking Dead
you meet her as a scared girl hiding in her treehouse from zombies, and in the end she is bashing their heads with bats. their is development in her as you teach her to survive as Lee, and you can harden her or leave her as much an innoscent little girl as possible. she becomes a true survivor capable of survival for her age, and in the end she is left with the duty of killing or leaving her father figure from the past months after having just found her dead parents. through it all she comes out fine in season 2, where Lee is a distant memory. over 16 months may have passed making her now 10 or 11, but that is still an extremely young age as she goes 1v1ing zombies in sheds or biting off thumbs trying to escape bandits.
Ellie- Last of Us
a lot easier to miss this one as a playstation exclusive game. ellie is a bit older than Clem and much more capable of self defense, even with just her switchblade. she is immune, having been bit 3 weeks prior to the events of the game and showing no sign of turning. she is put with Joel, our protagonist, as an escort to bring to the fireflies, a group trying to make a cure. when they arrive the fireflies are dead, but Ellie already know the final destination was salt lake city. the two are forced by tess, Joel's now infected companion, to continue to salt lake. after being bitten hours ago she is already worse than Ellie after her 3 weeks. the group travels across the country over a whole year, starting out in a rocky relationship then growing on each other. eventually she is trusted with a gun and later it is like a father daughter bond. by the end it is a bond that cannot be broken, even when the cure they can use to save humanity would involve killing her. joel fights back and frees Ellie, much against her own will given she said earlier that she would go as far as it needs to go to make a cure. she awakens later in the car and Joel lies about the situation and says there is no cure, and that they are returning to his brother's place. in the end we are not quite sure she believes the lie.
@LadyRhian - I really enjoyed playing through Gabriel Knight 1 & 2 back in the day. I played a version of 1 without sound though. When I first heard Tim Curry's New Orleans accent replaying the CD version I nearly fell off my chair laughing.
@God "And, to my obvious delectation, she even boldly stated that There is a @God. "
Does the perfect mythical beings have need of being flattered, I wonder?
I am not all that perfect if you ask me but it flatters me that you say so. And flattery is always welcome as it has the power to brighten the atmosphere in this usually sad dark world.
@God I wonder about that. Telling compliments and flattering someone are two different things, but that's something for another discussion. Sorry for offtopic, carry on.
Comments
@booinyoureyes uh huh.........................................
Dragon Age or Mass Effect? Wish I could add a poll. I hear horrible things about Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. One of my roommates in college played both, and I tried DA but didnt' like a lot of it (I used the Baldur's Gate view because the other was just too annoying, though I could deal with it in NWN). Mass Effect looked more interesting and different from what I usually play.
Then when you get to the ending things just got all sorts of messed up. The original endings literally ended with your crew crashing on a planet, looking around, and then the credits rolled. With a high EMS score (stupidest system ever) you might get a scene where Shepard breathes showing he is alive, but it doesn't give much hope, especially towards finding your friends. The extended cut made the ship actually lift back off thank god, but you still have no idea what to think of the breathe scene that got reused. There were also still no proper epilogues for the characters so that is basically it for them. That is a big problem for me. Wanna know what I like about the ending of Baldur's Gate? The epilogues let you, despite it being the end of the game, understand where your friends have gone after it was all over. You continue to see their life, sometimes to their end. They could have killed of Tali for all I cared and I told many this even in a letter to Bioware during those times, and I wouldn't have care. You know what? I got to technically be with them until the end. Yet this is just a reminder that it is a game that has an ending, and beyond that point it is just a dark hole of nothing. The world ceases to exist at that point unless they make a sequal.
Wow I am getting ranty. I better stop there on Mass Effect TBH. I say go for it, but go into the last game expecting the worst. Ask questions. You will find horrendous answers.
Also you asked about Dragon Age and Mass Effect. I am not sure which DA you tried but if you haven't tried Origins then I would recommend that. It is a spiritual successor to BG and did well to make the combat tactical. On higher difficulties you are really left making all these tactical decisions that could mean life or death. And yes there are totally cheesy tactics
i was actually a little jealous of the relationship and how it can work and it may have introduced to me being an asexual, strange as it may be for a video game character to tell me this through their romance. if we were to have a "what video game character do you wish to meet in real life" thread it would totally be her. first off I absolutely love faceless characters which was my initial interest in the character over the others. funny story there is that ME3 ruined it by not only giving her a face through a picture but being so lazy as to photoshop some miss england winner. Laziness! but she is generally a badass character who proves herself in a fight in her very first scene then joins you on your quest despite her being on her pilgrimage, the quarian rite to adulthood (yeah speaking of Jaheira's romance, Tali is technically not an adult in the first game while Shepard is about 29 I think. of course ME2 is two years later with her done her pilgrimage, but there is still probably about a 10 year gap in relative life cycle species) She is generally interesting throughout as the young energetic character who wants to be everyone's friend, and also happens to love technology and is thrilled to be on your advanced ship! Then in ME2 she gets what I would call the best of the loyalty missions which I really wish I could talk about without getting spoilery if you intend to try it for yourself. To add on to all this she is one of only 2 characters who was with you through every game, the other being Garrus. This is my squad, we are awesome friends and the rest are on for the ride
also if you don't romance Tali she actually gets together with Garrus. Makes sense because they are actually compatible species, but I would kill Garrus for such thoughts! I could always kill him in ME2 if I didn't want to romance Tali. I said about 15 Shepards? they all romanced Tali
if I were ever lucky enough to be a multi millionaire one day, I would throw it all away just for a rework of this final game. I would move back in with my parents because I can't afford the rent just to get this off my back. it feels really good to get this pressure off though. it builds and I just need to let it out. i was a little overly passionate, and don't allow myself to be so for anything anymore. it seems as though whenever you get too into anything it just comes back to haunt you in the end when you are completely dissapointed.
Edit: As for the ending of ME3, I'll agree it's still suboptimal (and that it used to be a train wreck), but the extended cut DLC significantly improved things - and for people who aren't happy with that either there's also the happy ending mod.
-Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7 (classic but also one of my favorites since I can remember myself)
-Magus from Chrono Trigger. Totaly badass and not that bad of a guy.
-Fou-Lu from Breath of Fire 4.
-Gray Fox from Metal Gear Solid.
Might come up with a few more if I think hard enough but those come to mind immediately.
There's no intrusive elaboration on his morals and motivations which is great for a first person game. He just wants to get on with high end burglary and tries to avoid being drawn into various fate-of-the-world scenarios.
Bastila Shan voiced by that sexy Jennifer Hale
Jeannette from Vampire Bloodlines
Anyways, a few did stick out to me: Geralt of Rivia from The Witcher series, Lord British from the Ultimas, Kefka from Final Fantasy VI, and as @Corvino mentioned, Garrett from the Thief series. I fear I've left out someone (…)
Up to that point I'd played tonnes of run-jump-run platformers, but nothing that had placed the same emphasis on plot & character.
(Similar stylistic kudos to Resident Evil & Dino Crisis, but their characters never grabbed me in the same way.)
Oh, and GLaDOS... Whenever there is cake, I remember your lies...
The Guardian (Ultima VII): In his first appearance he was undoubtedly one of the most sinister villains I've ever come across in gaming, and the way his nature was slowly unveiled was extremely well done. I look at his cronies as an extension of him, so the supporting cast (Batlin, Hook, Elizabeth and Abraham) made it even better. Though they never even appear until the end of the game, with the exception of Batlin, their presence is felt through the story and dialogue.
Gabriel Knight: Jane Jensen deserves a lot of praise for creating such a fascinating, reluctant hero. While the first game in the series was undoubtedly the best, they all fleshed out the jaded character and simply made him feel real--something that is often quite difficult to accomplish in a game, particularly when it involves the supernatural. Those of you who agree will wet your pants when you see this.
Rakeesh (Quest for Glory II & III): One of the frequent topics of discussion on this forum is that of mentors for the PC, someone who could guide him/her through the game. That's the feeling I got when playing through these games. The character is extremely well-written and comes across as a grizzled veteran who simply wants to pass along some of his experiences. If you can make up a race called liontaurs and actually get people to care about them, you know you've done a good job.
Murray (Monkey Island series):
Murray: I am a powerful demonic force! I am the harbinger of your doom! And the forces of darkness will applaud me as I STRIDE through the gates of hell carrying your head on a pike!
Guybrush Threepwood: 'Stride?'
Murray: All right then, 'ROLL! ROLL through the gates of hell.' Must you take the fun out of everything?
Guybrush Threepwood: You're about as fearsome as a doorstop.
Murray: Is it a really EVIL-looking doorstop?
Enough said...
It's much easier with newer games, so I'm able to be a bit pickier about which ones I choose and why:
Thane Krios (Mass Effect 2 & 3): What a beautifully written character! I found Thane's philosophy and outlook to be fascinating, while his introduction the game showcased just how deadly he could be. Clearly having no love for his profession, he's an introspective character who shows nuances of regret, shame, compassion and hope. In fact, whatever faults the Mass Effect series may have, its story and development of all characters are brilliant.
Kreia (Knights of the Old Republic II): Villains can be incredibly difficult to write, and there's often a tendency to go overboard by making them "chaotic stupid". Kreia was about as far from that as you could get. In many respects she's a tragic character, having been judged, rejected and betrayed repeatedly, leading her to descend further and further into her own psyche. By the time of the game, the scale of her manipulations is staggering once you finally understand who she is and what she has done. Yet despite all of her machination, she still reveals a vulnerability in her final conversation with you. Again, the game may have had flaws, but Kreia was brilliant.
The staff (The Dark Eye: Memoria): If you're an adventure gamer and haven't played Chains of Satinav or Memoria, get them now. If you've never tried adventures games, get them now! Chains of Satinav was a great game, if ultimately uneven, but Memoria was gorgeous in almost every respect. I don't want to give too much away and will simply say that it was the first time a talking object has ever had me on the verge of tears in a game, particularly when you realize the simple closure that it wants.
I got into Sephiroth before Final Fantasy VII was mainstream. (There I said it!)
In all seriousness. I bought a magazine in 97 that had a PREVIEW of FF7 and later one that got a review.
A friend lent me his first cd of FF7 and I got hooked into RPGs and Sephiroth since.
That was around when I was 8-10 years old.
I also loved FF7 and Sephiroth before anyone I knew, played it or was into him. So it's pretty much an unbiased love for the character and game.
Clementine- Telltale Game's The Walking Dead
Ellie- Last of Us
"And, to my obvious delectation, she even boldly stated that There is a @God. "
Does the perfect mythical beings have need of being flattered, I wonder?
I wonder about that. Telling compliments and flattering someone are two different things, but that's something for another discussion. Sorry for offtopic, carry on.