I've wanted to whinge about a particular weapon for a while, and this seems the best place for it: The Equaliser... Why did I spend almost an entire game lumping around pieces of a +3 weapon?
SO disappointing! I had the same reaction when I finally forged it.
The other bad one for me was Aslyferund Elven Chain +5... 40,000 gold and a scroll to upgrade my armour... I thought it'd surely be amazing. Then realised all I got was AC improved by 1.
Protection from Normal Weapons? ... In Throne of Bhaal?! Are you joking?! I am already innately immune to +1 weapons!
Actually its very useful for Imoen. She doesn't naturally get immunity to +1 and the large waves of random enemies in TOB actually do use normal or excellent weapons a lot so it saves stoneskin charges. Also its light enough for her to wear all the time after she gets her stat boosts.
@Heindrich1988 I had low gold for all SoA until I sold everything I found in the UnderDark and some missions, so I had like 400,000 gold in chapter 7, while I ended ToB with around 500,000. I found LOTS of High Level scrolls in SoA, Jan and the PC had their spell books full, and because I didn't knew that Bards couldn't cast lvl7+ spells Haer'Dalis knew some of those spells (I played with game knowledge but without using guides, so I was new to BG2, but a master of the game engine. Anyway I bought more Time Stop spells to use with Haer'Dalis, with Dual-wielding+Improved Haste+25 STR+Tenser's Transformation+Time Stop, Haer'Dalis killed Abazigal alone (in his human form), and then, well, I forgot buffing the PC and, well, Skull Traps -> Reload :P Still, one AC point and Immunity to Normal Weapons helps a lot vs Gromnir's soldiers (many of them use normal weapons), and, yeah, I had both things done and some Watcher's Keep components.
That said, Gromnir's soldiers don't pose much of a threat. Later on, everyone seems to have +2 or more. Just try looting any of the enemies in Amkethran and see their sparkling magic equipment. Somehow, your average goon got a hold of a full set of magic items of epic proportions, and so did all his friends. That's ToB...
@kaffekoppen Yep, that's the desing decision you have to take, otherwise a single fire elemental could take them all out without a singke point of damage...
I started to feel bad at the end of TOB. I had about 50 +2 Katanas, 30 +2 Shortswords, 40 +1 Elven Chainmails and 30 +2 Chainmails. I was torn between selling them or roleplaying that my main establishes a *really* well equipped personal guard/knightly order with the leftovers.
I would have really loved more interesting shields. I think that the Defender of Easthaven's bonuses would work way better on a shield than a flail, and do a lot for the style. A shield that could cast Protection from Magical Weapons or Chaotic Commands once a day would definitely get mileage out of me. Any good bucklers at all for thieves/bards (and the ability to use a buckler and a bow simultaneously) would be very interesting as well.
i would love to see something interesting done regarding shields. although there's nothing wrong with the current lot an upgradeable uber-shield from cespenar would've been nice considering every other slot gets one (wait...boots and amulets?)
Or even better, change the current weapon styles so instead of the pointless AC vs missile bonuses a simple 5% Damage resistance to all styles with one pip and a further 5% to a maximum of 10% with the second pip.
That is a great idea. Sword and Shield Style is awful even if you use sword and board all the time. It's not even worth a single point. Adding damage resistance, even a little, would make it worthwhile. I think this is a good move. Not going to happen, but a good idea nonetheless.
@kaffekoppen Yep, that's the desing decision you have to take, otherwise a single fire elemental could take them all out without a singke point of damage...
Sure, I get that. I just find it funny anyway. At least it's not level scaled like Oblivion where you gradually made yourself weaker compared to common enemies by leveling up... unless you really exploited the leveling system at least.
Seeing how people are sad about katanas, I always go for Weapon Upgrade Mod, because you always wanted to have your Celestial Fury be a +5 weapon eventually, and before Irrevrykal inclusion, a truly evil Carsomyr.
It combines some items, so you don't have to switch between them during battle, then combines several obsolete items into single more powerful items, upgrades NPC-specific gear, and more. My favorite mod of them all.
Just be sure to save a lot of gold, and all the unique items on the road.
I've wanted to whinge about a particular weapon for a while, and this seems the best place for it: The Equaliser... Why did I spend almost an entire game lumping around pieces of a +3 weapon?
SO disappointing! I had the same reaction when I finally forged it.
The other bad one for me was Aslyferund Elven Chain +5... 40,000 gold and a scroll to upgrade my armour... I thought it'd surely be amazing. Then realised all I got was AC improved by 1.
Protection from Normal Weapons? ... In Throne of Bhaal?! Are you joking?! I am already innately immune to +1 weapons!
equaliser needs to be improved. i'd like a +2/+3/+4 progression with some nasty effect against far-off alignments, 25% ray of enfeeblement (with save) or sm like that.
i also thought aslyferund+5 was kinda sucky and didn't wear it (wore that new el. resist robe instead) but still wound up wearing it in the end because of AC; didn't have other great options there. it's basically like bracers of AC1 for a fighter/mage. you could also just cast spirit armor which lasts 10min...too short for me, may not be for other people.
EDIT: has anyone noticed that the new silver dragon scale armors can be worn with rings of protection. is that a bug?
I've wanted to whinge about a particular weapon for a while, and this seems the best place for it: The Equaliser... Why did I spend almost an entire game lumping around pieces of a +3 weapon?
SO disappointing! I had the same reaction when I finally forged it.
The other bad one for me was Aslyferund Elven Chain +5... 40,000 gold and a scroll to upgrade my armour... I thought it'd surely be amazing. Then realised all I got was AC improved by 1.
Protection from Normal Weapons? ... In Throne of Bhaal?! Are you joking?! I am already innately immune to +1 weapons!
EDIT: has anyone noticed that the new silver dragon scale armors can be worn with rings of protection. is that a bug?
It's probably like the Ankheg Armor change. It's not technically an enchanted suit of armor, so it shouldn't count against your one, even if it functions as whatever +x
I've wanted to whinge about a particular weapon for a while, and this seems the best place for it: The Equaliser... Why did I spend almost an entire game lumping around pieces of a +3 weapon?
SO disappointing! I had the same reaction when I finally forged it.
The other bad one for me was Aslyferund Elven Chain +5... 40,000 gold and a scroll to upgrade my armour... I thought it'd surely be amazing. Then realised all I got was AC improved by 1.
Protection from Normal Weapons? ... In Throne of Bhaal?! Are you joking?! I am already innately immune to +1 weapons!
EDIT: has anyone noticed that the new silver dragon scale armors can be worn with rings of protection. is that a bug?
It's probably like the Ankheg Armor change. It's not technically an enchanted suit of armor, so it shouldn't count against your one, even if it functions as whatever +x
Well, but it is the best Armor Suit in the game. If you are fire immune and you are "taking fire damage" the armor will heal you too, damn too cheesy, +3 movement rate, can be used with Rings of Protection and the only penalty, -2 CHA, it looks like a joke.
@Bigfish there are other dragon scale armors and none can be used with rings of protection
ankheg armor, dude you serious? you would compare these two? the rule is that generic protection trinkets can't be combined with magical armors and this armor is *magical* all right.
you can combine it with a ring of protection +3, amulet of the master harper +3, ring of gaxx (+2 and great for warriors) and the newly added item, cloak of the dark moon (like a +2 cloak of protection that can be combined with *everything*)
@Bigfish there are other dragon scale armors and none can be used with rings of protection
ankheg armor, dude you serious? you would compare these two? the rule is that generic protection trinkets can't be combined with magical armors and this armor is *magical* all right.
you can combine it with a ring of protection +3, amulet of the master harper +3, ring of gaxx (+2 and great for warriors) and the newly added item, cloak of the dark moon (like a +2 cloak of protection that can be combined with *everything*)
ankheg armor, dude you serious? you would compare these two
I don't give a flying flip about balance. All I'm saying is that Ankheg armor used to have the same flag that prevents a protection ring/cloak and now it doesn't. Same thing probably happened to Silver Scale Armor. Is it intended or balances? Don't know, don't care.
i was talking about consistency in the first place.
ankheg armor - not magical, made out of a natural material (ankhegs are just animals)
dragon scale armors - magical, made out of a magical material (dragons are magical creatures)
white dragon scale armor - not magical for some reason even if it's by far the most powerful of all
Totally amateurish design (if it's intended). Or a bug (unintended). It can only be one of those two, and that what i'm obviously talking about here.
also note that i wasn't specifically talking about balance nor do i care about what do you think about balance in general, don't sidetrack the discussion, we're talking about a potential bug here.
@FinneousPJ I believe you're wrong there. Dragons are much more magical than common "magical beasts" (this term is very old and doesn't really have anything to do with magic anymore). They are supremely magical creatures with strong elemental bonds...their bodies are infused with magic. Ankhegs on the other hand are completely non-magical (even though they are lumped with 'magical beasts'), they are just fictional giant insects that burrow and spit acid.
edit: for example in p&p just like there's "fire" and "magical fire" there's also "acid" and "magical acid". in baldur's gate this distinction is only implemented with fire and cold but all acid is magical (for example melf's acid arrow). this is why ankhegs do piercing damage when they should really spit acid. their acid is non-magical. on the other hand dragons' breaths are magical.
@Bigfish It's impossible that it's inteded and the design is fine, as i have demonstrated. Prove me otherwise.
@bob_veng So perhaps you could show a reference that states dragons are magical... because the SRD implies they're not, IMO. "A dragon is a reptilelike creature, usually winged, with magical or unusual abilities."
http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00053.htm "...Dragon Flight: Despite their large size, dragons are graceful and competent fliers; most are maneuverability class C. This is due partially to their powerful wings, and partially to the dragon's innate magic. Dragons can climb at half speed and dive at double speed."
http://www.dotd.com/mm/MM00053.htm "Dragon Flight: Despite their large size, dragons are graceful and competent fliers; most are maneuverability class C. This is due partially to their powerful wings, and partially to the dragon's innate magic..."
so their ability to fly even though it's physically impossible is a result of their innate magic. just like the beholders levitation. the same term "innate magic" is used with beholders elsewhere.
Aside from Wiki =/= SRD, there isn't going to be agreement here. Two parties posting 'evidence' that contradicts and will be called more valid by the side that agrees (and less by the other) will go nowhere. Take your differing opinions, agree to disagree, and move on, please. This is essentially:
That's some very fallacious reasoning. The fact that some source (SRD) doesn't mention some information doesn't mean that that information is false. SRD doesn't mention that beholders are magical either. It's just not a proper source of information in this matter, it's basically just crunch with very rudimentary descriptions.
I will not yield, i'm right and that's it.
edit: also, sorry for doubleposting, dunno what happened there
For what it's worth, I agree with @bob_veng that if other dragon armours are considered 'magical', and thus incompatible with protective jewellery/cloaks, then the White Dragon armour should be no different, especially as it is already the best armour for a warrior in the game.
This discrepancy is clearly a design oversight or bug, though by no means a major one. If you like having an item stand out, then use White Dragon Scale with cloaks/rings/amulets, if you think it's a bug, just self-restrict your itemisation combos. I don't really care about balance in a singleplayer game.
This is a game based on fiction that has evolved for decades, there's always gonna be contradictions even with 'canon lore', so insisting whether dragons (and armour forged from their skin) are 'magical' of definitively is kinda pointless.
Comments
I found LOTS of High Level scrolls in SoA, Jan and the PC had their spell books full, and because I didn't knew that Bards couldn't cast lvl7+ spells Haer'Dalis knew some of those spells (I played with game knowledge but without using guides, so I was new to BG2, but a master of the game engine.
Anyway I bought more Time Stop spells to use with Haer'Dalis, with Dual-wielding+Improved Haste+25 STR+Tenser's Transformation+Time Stop, Haer'Dalis killed Abazigal alone (in his human form), and then, well, I forgot buffing the PC and, well, Skull Traps -> Reload :P
Still, one AC point and Immunity to Normal Weapons helps a lot vs Gromnir's soldiers (many of them use normal weapons), and, yeah, I had both things done and some Watcher's Keep components.
Or even better, change the current weapon styles so instead of the pointless AC vs missile bonuses a simple 5% Damage resistance to all styles with one pip and a further 5% to a maximum of 10% with the second pip.
It combines some items, so you don't have to switch between them during battle, then combines several obsolete items into single more powerful items, upgrades NPC-specific gear, and more. My favorite mod of them all.
Just be sure to save a lot of gold, and all the unique items on the road.
i also thought aslyferund+5 was kinda sucky and didn't wear it (wore that new el. resist robe instead) but still wound up wearing it in the end because of AC; didn't have other great options there.
it's basically like bracers of AC1 for a fighter/mage. you could also just cast spirit armor which lasts 10min...too short for me, may not be for other people.
EDIT: has anyone noticed that the new silver dragon scale armors can be worn with rings of protection. is that a bug?
change. It's not technically an enchanted suit of armor, so it shouldn't count against your one, even if it functions as whatever +x
there are other dragon scale armors and none can be used with rings of protection
ankheg armor, dude you serious? you would compare these two?
the rule is that generic protection trinkets can't be combined with magical armors and this armor is *magical* all right.
you can combine it with a ring of protection +3, amulet of the master harper +3, ring of gaxx (+2 and great for warriors) and the newly added item, cloak of the dark moon (like a +2 cloak of protection that can be combined with *everything*)
thats -2 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 (some helmet) = -13 without dexterity bonus or shield
slight problem here, i'd say
edit: add dexterity bonus +4 and shield +5 (there's one with +1 saves and one with minor resistances) and that's -22 AC
then and only then add buffs......
ankheg armor - not magical, made out of a natural material (ankhegs are just animals)
dragon scale armors - magical, made out of a magical material (dragons are magical creatures)
white dragon scale armor - not magical for some reason even if it's by far the most powerful of all
Totally amateurish design (if it's intended). Or a bug (unintended). It can only be one of those two, and that what i'm obviously talking about here.
also note that i wasn't specifically talking about balance nor do i care about what do you think about balance in general, don't sidetrack the discussion, we're talking about a potential bug here.
In any case, the white dragon scale armor seems to be the best armor in the game at the moment and you can get 2 of them.
I believe you're wrong there. Dragons are much more magical than common "magical beasts" (this term is very old and doesn't really have anything to do with magic anymore).
They are supremely magical creatures with strong elemental bonds...their bodies are infused with magic.
Ankhegs on the other hand are completely non-magical (even though they are lumped with 'magical beasts'), they are just fictional giant insects that burrow and spit acid.
edit: for example in p&p just like there's "fire" and "magical fire" there's also "acid" and "magical acid". in baldur's gate this distinction is only implemented with fire and cold but all acid is magical (for example melf's acid arrow).
this is why ankhegs do piercing damage when they should really spit acid. their acid is non-magical.
on the other hand dragons' breaths are magical.
@Bigfish
It's impossible that it's inteded and the design is fine, as i have demonstrated. Prove me otherwise.
EDIT: or acid.
"...Dragon Flight: Despite their large size, dragons are graceful and competent fliers; most are maneuverability class C. This is due partially to their powerful wings, and partially to the dragon's innate magic. Dragons can climb at half speed and dive at double speed."
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon
"Dragons (or wyrms) are very powerful and magical creatures."
the same terminology ("innate magic" and "magical x") is used with beholders for example.
"Dragon Flight: Despite their large size, dragons are graceful and competent fliers; most are maneuverability class C. This is due partially to their powerful wings, and partially to the dragon's innate magic..."
so their ability to fly even though it's physically impossible is a result of their innate magic. just like the beholders levitation.
the same term "innate magic" is used with beholders elsewhere.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon
"Dragons (or wyrms) are very powerful and magical creatures."
"My dog can beat up your dog."
"Nuh-uh!"
"Yes-huh!"
"Nuh-uh!"
And so on... and so on... and so on...
The fact that some source (SRD) doesn't mention some information doesn't mean that that information is false.
SRD doesn't mention that beholders are magical either. It's just not a proper source of information in this matter, it's basically just crunch with very rudimentary descriptions.
I will not yield, i'm right and that's it.
edit: also, sorry for doubleposting, dunno what happened there
@Bigfish
Come on guys... this is getting a bit silly.
For what it's worth, I agree with @bob_veng that if other dragon armours are considered 'magical', and thus incompatible with protective jewellery/cloaks, then the White Dragon armour should be no different, especially as it is already the best armour for a warrior in the game.
This discrepancy is clearly a design oversight or bug, though by no means a major one. If you like having an item stand out, then use White Dragon Scale with cloaks/rings/amulets, if you think it's a bug, just self-restrict your itemisation combos. I don't really care about balance in a singleplayer game.
This is a game based on fiction that has evolved for decades, there's always gonna be contradictions even with 'canon lore', so insisting whether dragons (and armour forged from their skin) are 'magical' of definitively is kinda pointless.
Now we just need a flamethrower.
EDIT: added flamethrower.