@bob_veng This discrepancy is clearly a design oversight or bug, though by no means a major one. If you like having an item stand out, then use White Dragon Scale with cloaks/rings/amulets, if you think it's a bug, just self-restrict your itemisation combos. I don't really care about balance in a singleplayer game.
This is a game based on fiction that has evolved for decades, there's always gonna be contradictions even with 'canon lore', so insisting whether dragons (and armour forged from their skin) are 'magical' of definitively is kinda pointless.
i'm not saying it's a "major one"; we're agreeing on everything, basically...except that bugs shouldn't be reported but instead circumvented in the playthroughs by the players. every bug, no matter how minor must be reported (which i have done).
edit: also i wrote white dragon scale previously accidentaly. some people have caught on, so sorry about that, it's *silver* dragon
So a quick question with Daystar; what enchantment does it strike as against non undead / non evil enemies? Or does the enchantment of +4 against said enemies only apply to thac0?
So a quick question with Daystar; what enchantment does it strike as against non undead / non evil enemies? Or does the enchantment of +4 against said enemies only apply to thac0?
Enchantment level only determines what it can hit, not how hard it hits or what THAC0 bonus it gets. It is +2 damage and THAC0 for non undead/evil.
Right, so what enchantment level does it strike as against all enemies? is it a +4 enchantment (in terms of what it can hit) against all?
Yes, you can hit anything that requires +4 with daystar now. Just like you could use the hammer +1 +4 vs giants to hit kangaxx the demilich previously.
^^ O_o ?! @kryptix Really?! That makes no sense... is it intended or an exploit? That makes all weapons with '+ x vs so-and-so' extremely useful for hitting stuff that normally have immunity to lesser enchantment levels.
^^ O_o ?! @kryptix Really?! That makes no sense... is it intended or an exploit? That makes all weapons with '+ x vs so-and-so' extremely useful for hitting stuff that normally have immunity to lesser enchantment levels.
The rationale is that to hit as +x against ANYTHING, the enchantment level must be at least X. The fact that it doesn't work against EVERYTHING is simply because its not as powerful as a general enchantment of X, IE a flawed enchantment etc.
Daystar used to be the lone exception that did not hit as a +4 but rather as a +2 which made it rather useless against the most powerful undead except for casting sunray. I wonder if the + damage on daystar gets multiplied by a backstab though, does anyone know? If it does, double damage backstabs would be nuts on liches and the like. I actually managed to pop the fire lich in the fire giant temple the other day with a one shot backstab right after Neera's timestop stripped all of its protections and before any contingencies kicked in because the backstab was the first hit afterwards... If Daystar does double damage, I know I'll find a way to cheese that lich right out of Chateau Irenicus on my next playthrough...
it doesn't do double damage at all, just adds another attack with separate roll, checked.
Is the second attack also a backstab? Maybe with Assassination on or mislead?
this is how daystar really works, it's a bit convoluted:
I. Non-Evil - an ordinary +2 weapon that goes through mantle (it has four levels of enchantment)
II. Evil
+4 thac0, and two damage components a) main: 1d8+2 slashing b) bonus: 2 slashing
*on backstab* as per the general rule the bonuses are enever multiplied, only the main component is
This is an apparent bug since it doesn't correspond with the description which says 1d8+4 main, not 1d8+2 main +2 bonus.
III. Undead
+4 thac0 and *four* damage components a) main: 1d8+2 slashing b) bonus: 2 slashing c) bonus: 1d8+2dmg magic d) bonus: 2 magic
*wielder bonuses* (str, prof, gauntlets...) apply only to the main component *on backstab* only the main component is multiplied
So here we have another apparent bug. The weapon doesn't do double damage (as advertised; although something about magic damage is mentioned in the description, but it's unclear), but instad just gets an additional damage bonus against the undead, namely 1d8+2+2 magic. This is still awesome of course, the damage being magic even more so.
Also, the order in which the damage is applied is a) d) b) c), not abcd which is simply strange.
Totally. And even some of the devs don't seem to understand some of the mechanics now. I'm serious.
For example look at the impaler spear. It is a +3 spear with 10 bonus damage, piercing.
*originally*, the description used to say it does 1d6+3 w. 10 bonus piercing. - on critical hit that would mean that it does 2x(4-9 + wielder bonus) + 10, which is indeed what it does
*now* the description goes 1d6+13 - on critical hit that would amount to 2x(14d19 + wielder bonus) which is simply not true...it still does the original damage (you can see the separately displayed bonus in the combat log and, on character screens, the damage range is properly displayed as [4+wielder bonus] - [9+wielder bonus]; bonus damage never gets displayed there)
So, apparently somebody that changed the item description didn't understand this. This is also a bug! I don't know whether it has been reported, i might go and check.
Comments
every bug, no matter how minor must be reported (which i have done).
edit: also i wrote white dragon scale previously accidentaly. some people have caught on, so sorry about that, it's *silver* dragon
Right, so what enchantment level does it strike as against all enemies? is it a +4 enchantment (in terms of what it can hit) against all?
@kryptix
Really?! That makes no sense... is it intended or an exploit? That makes all weapons with '+ x vs so-and-so' extremely useful for hitting stuff that normally have immunity to lesser enchantment levels.
Daystar used to be the lone exception that did not hit as a +4 but rather as a +2 which made it rather useless against the most powerful undead except for casting sunray. I wonder if the + damage on daystar gets multiplied by a backstab though, does anyone know? If it does, double damage backstabs would be nuts on liches and the like. I actually managed to pop the fire lich in the fire giant temple the other day with a one shot backstab right after Neera's timestop stripped all of its protections and before any contingencies kicked in because the backstab was the first hit afterwards... If Daystar does double damage, I know I'll find a way to cheese that lich right out of Chateau Irenicus on my next playthrough...
I. Non-Evil
- an ordinary +2 weapon that goes through mantle (it has four levels of enchantment)
II. Evil
+4 thac0, and two damage components
a) main: 1d8+2 slashing
b) bonus: 2 slashing
*on backstab* as per the general rule the bonuses are enever multiplied, only the main component is
This is an apparent bug since it doesn't correspond with the description which says 1d8+4 main, not 1d8+2 main +2 bonus.
III. Undead
+4 thac0 and *four* damage components
a) main: 1d8+2 slashing
b) bonus: 2 slashing
c) bonus: 1d8+2dmg magic
d) bonus: 2 magic
*wielder bonuses* (str, prof, gauntlets...) apply only to the main component
*on backstab* only the main component is multiplied
So here we have another apparent bug. The weapon doesn't do double damage (as advertised; although something about magic damage is mentioned in the description, but it's unclear), but instad just gets an additional damage bonus against the undead, namely 1d8+2+2 magic. This is still awesome of course, the damage being magic even more so.
Also, the order in which the damage is applied is a) d) b) c), not abcd which is simply strange.
Totally. And even some of the devs don't seem to understand some of the mechanics now. I'm serious.
For example look at the impaler spear.
It is a +3 spear with 10 bonus damage, piercing.
*originally*, the description used to say it does 1d6+3 w. 10 bonus piercing.
- on critical hit that would mean that it does 2x(4-9 + wielder bonus) + 10, which is indeed what it does
*now* the description goes 1d6+13
- on critical hit that would amount to 2x(14d19 + wielder bonus) which is simply not true...it still does the original damage (you can see the separately displayed bonus in the combat log and, on character screens, the damage range is properly displayed as [4+wielder bonus] - [9+wielder bonus]; bonus damage never gets displayed there)
So, apparently somebody that changed the item description didn't understand this. This is also a bug! I don't know whether it has been reported, i might go and check.
edit: i checked, somebody noticed it too, https://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/25552/the-impaler-typo-not-too-important
the OP obviously understands it and dev obviously doesn't. ridonkulus.