How to make monks work offensively in BG1:EE with just one item. Really!

Tresset

It has often been pointed out that monks kinda suck at most things in BG1:EE due to several factors such as inability to use magical fists, relatively lackluster thac0, and sub-par damage output among other things which basically makes them like a fighter with a few tricks and the problem of being unable to fight.

Well, I stumbled on something quite by accident that turns BG1:EE monks into at least competent fighters. It is an often overlooked item called Relair's Mistake. How does this cloak help the monk? First of all the wolf attack does a comparable damage to the monk's fist attacks and it even adds a whole attack per round to their base fist APR. Second, the wolf attack counts as a magical weapon (without adding any thac0 or damage bonus though) so that the monk can now hit creatures immune to normal weapons without equipping a weapon that reduces their APR to 1. Finally, most of the monk's innate spells and abilities still function in wolf form (so far it seems like only Flaming/Frozen fists do not function while in wolf form (Stunning Blow still works though)) and they can still use items while in wolf form. Since the cloak has unlimited uses you may just want to keep your monk in wolf form all the time since it is usually better than the natural form anyway.

Sadly, the cloak does little for the monk defensively, but there are other things to help with that.

"What do you think Sirs?"

victory_rose

Cool, I've always wondered what to do with the cloak - seems a waste to sell it, but I've never found any reason (or simply forgot) to use it on a character equipped with it. I'm assuming that you've tried it with Rasaad?

Shin

Good find in terms of game mechanics, but to me it's relatively far removed from the monk theme. I'd rather just give them a wis-based AC bonus and adjust the fists to become magical around when other melee classes can expect to get their first magical weapon. Attaching a proficiency to the fist weapons and allowing the monk to attain grandmastery in it is another well-working edit.

victory_rose

I've never rolled a monk as charname so I really don't know how I would play/plan one, but as I like to include Rasaad in my party in BG1, and given his "deficiencies" (relatively low Con/Dex/Str), any way to make him better playable/usable in the game (until he reaches level 9 in BG2 and starts becoming ever more awesome) is well worth it.

Elrandir

When I finally get around to making my solo monk play-through, I will definitely take advantage of this. Thanks for the idea! I never knew the wolf's attack counted as magical.

CrevsDaak

I would like to say that this Cloak is also of great benefit for Clerics.

Wanderon

Cloak did wonders keeping Xzar alive (and doing melee damage) in an all mage party I once played.

SharGuidesMyHand

Tresset said:

Second, the wolf attack counts as a magical weapon (without adding any thac0 or damage bonus though) so that the monk can now hit creatures immune to normal weapons without equipping a weapon that reduces their APR to 1.

Sadly, I came across this thread a while back, but overlooked this part about the wolf's attack counting as a magical weapon. Would've helped me out, but alas! - what's done is done.

O_Bruce

Interesting. Next time I'll roll monk I am sure to try that item. Thank you.

Southpaw

[stunned silence]
Interesting @Tresset, this is a particularly innovative use of an item I have never thought about before. Also, I did not know his paws do count like magical attacks.
I will give it a try, although I do have two little concerns:
1) it's really quite far from the monk's playing theme (players usually play it when they want to play an unarmed fighter, not a wolf)
2) I am afraid to end like Rieltar and catch lycantrophy.

Tresset

For those of you who are concerned that using this item seems far removed from the monk theme, I would like to point out that the monk is still an unarmed wolf when using the item. (slight joke)

Southpaw said:

2) I am afraid to end like Rieltar and catch lycantrophy.

@Southpaw Rieltar actually caught a Deathbringer Assault while Relair caught lycanthropy.

Elrandir

After reading Tresset's joke about an unarmed wolf, I now want to make a Monk kit called the Feral Monk. He has higher damage because his nails are sharpened into claws. Obviously there'd be some negatives to balance the positives, but I don't feel like thinking about it deeply.

Laflamme

The feral monk's unarmed attacks could deal piercing instead of crushing damage, which would count as a negative. He could also gain damage resistance instead of magic resistance, regeneration instead of Lay on Hands, Biting (dealing damage over time from bleeding, only working on certain enemy types) instead of Stunning Blow and Free Action (or maybe Horror) instead of Quivering Palm. What do you think?

winters

I just experimented with it a bit and noticed funny thing - after two turns, when poor Rasaad learns again how to walk on two legs, "shapeshifts natural form" doesn't dissapear from special ability list. Is that supposed to happen?

Tresset

winters said:

I just experimented with it a bit and noticed funny thing - after two turns, when poor Rasaad learns again how to walk on two legs, "shapeshifts natural form" doesn't dissapear from special ability list. Is that supposed to happen?

I noticed that too... I will look into it and report it if I feel it necessary.

Edit: Reported.

Elrandir

@Laflamme‌ Nifty ideas! Those actually seem really good, though I must admit that physical resistance as opposed to magic resistance would certainly make me not want to play it as much. XD

Southpaw

@‌Elrandir : Feral monk kit (I actually just wanted to place only the disadvantage with charisma, but then I made the whole list)

Advantages
-Claws - each unarmed attack does +4 dmg.
-Instead of stunning fist, the monk gets "Shred" attack, that makes the victim bleed for 1d4 for 2 rounds.
-instead of "Lay on Hands" casts "Regeneration" which does basically the same, but over 4 rounds.
-gets a "Bite" attack at level 13, which does 2x normal damage and leaves the victim to bleed for 1d12 for 2 rounds.
-Magical resistance is lower, but the feral monk gets some physical resistance too (eg - max 25% phys res + 50% mag res)

Disadvantages:
-2 charisma due to longer fangs, hairy ears and fur sticking out from underneath their collar. Also, hates water and bathing.
-can not use stunning fist
-can not use quivering palm

Feral monk kit for the win!

Elrandir

@Southpaw‌ Well that seems just about perfect, honestly! Now we need to choose a deity (nature deities, I would assume) and find someone to actually make the mod!

demented

This has given me the idea to roleplay as a wolf bhaalspawn. From a god's perspective a human is little more than an animal so it's possible an alluring shewolf might have caught his eyes.

I now have an idea for a really awkward and uncomfortable BG fanfiction.

Laflamme

Either Mielikki (LG), Silvanus (LN) or Malar (LE). Malar, as the god of evil lycanthropes, seems to be the most fitting.

jobby

Knuckledusters + 1 would be awesome, perhaps not in keeping with the mantra of the monks however.

Elrandir

@demented‌ Could it possibly be that Wilson is a Bhaalspawn?! How have we never realized it?!

SionIV

We already have the Gauntlets of Crushing for monks in BG2.

Would it be possible to add a pair of gauntlets that enhance your fists to +1 in BG?

If it would be possible (game engine) you could make a pair like this.

+½ APR
+2 Thac0
+ Your fists strike as a +1 weapon.

Blackraven

demented said:

This has given me the idea to roleplay as a wolf bhaalspawn. From a god's perspective a human is little more than an animal so it's possible an alluring shewolf might have caught his eyes.

I now have an idea for a really awkward and uncomfortable BG fanfiction.

Selune, the goddess of lycanthropes could be an inspiration.

CrevsDaak

SionIV said:

We already have the Gauntlets of Crushing for monks in BG2.

Would it be possible to add a pair of gauntlets that enhance your fists to +1 in BG?

If it would be possible (game engine) you could make a pair like this.

+½ APR
+2 Thac0
+ Your fists strike as a +1 weapon.

If you want them to strike as +1 you'll need to put them in the weapon slot, everything else os easy to code.
Maybe some hacks can be created (now that monk fists are externalized) but I can't think of any.

SionIV

CrevsDaak said:

SionIV said:

We already have the Gauntlets of Crushing for monks in BG2.

Would it be possible to add a pair of gauntlets that enhance your fists to +1 in BG?

If it would be possible (game engine) you could make a pair like this.

+½ APR
+2 Thac0
+ Your fists strike as a +1 weapon.

If you want them to strike as +1 you'll need to put them in the weapon slot, everything else os easy to code.
Maybe some hacks can be created (now that monk fists are externalized) but I can't think of any.

So the easiest way would just be changing the level up table on the monk and grant him magical fists earlier?

Tresset

SionIV said:

CrevsDaak said:

SionIV said:

We already have the Gauntlets of Crushing for monks in BG2.

Would it be possible to add a pair of gauntlets that enhance your fists to +1 in BG?

If it would be possible (game engine) you could make a pair like this.

+½ APR
+2 Thac0
+ Your fists strike as a +1 weapon.

If you want them to strike as +1 you'll need to put them in the weapon slot, everything else os easy to code.
Maybe some hacks can be created (now that monk fists are externalized) but I can't think of any.

So the easiest way would just be changing the level up table on the monk and grant him magical fists earlier?

Or you could just wolf yourself.