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Help resolve my Crisis of Faith! (D&D)

HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
in Off-Topic
My first (and only) experience of the vast and rich D&D universe is through the Baldur's Gate games, so I have a limited knowledge of the lore of the gods. Throughout my game I had assumed that Helm was a Lawful Good deity, since all (most) of his followers seem to be Lawful Good do-gooders. Imagine my shock then when I tried to create a Lawful Good Cleric and discovered that Helm was Neutral! This was not a total deal breaker, since I am LAWFUL good as opposed to Lawful GOOD...

... but it did spur me to look beyond Helm for a new deity to serve. Soon my research led me to Mystra, the Mother of All Magic. Of course I saw that she was also Lawful Neutral, but not only is she the Goddess of Magic (I love my Arcane spells!), she regulates and enforces rules on the use of magic in the realms. A combination of arcane magic and law and order. I had found my deity!

I read on eagerly... and was horrified to learn about the terrible events surrounding the Spell Plague. Not only had Mystra been slain, she had been slain by my second favourite god! I will never look upon Helm in the same way again.

So I come to you dear forum at this crisis of faith. Who should a Lawful Good Kensai/Mage (I prefer the term, Xia'ke 侠客, as I have no Kozakura or Waa ancestry) such as myself serve? I read that the people of my homeland (Shou Lung) serve many gods, and consider the worship of only one as foolish. But having grown up as an immigrant in Faerun, I have next to no knowledge about the Celestial Emperor and the Shou Patheon.

How can I reconcile my faith in Mystra and Helm with the terrible events of the Spell Plague? Does Mystra still hold any power? Is there any chance for her resurrection?

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014
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  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    edited January 2014
    I always see most of the gods from D&D as Lawful Good, we have some Chaotic Good in the middle (or Chaotic Neutral) like Sune, and many evil gods, being my facorites Vecna (Lesser Deity, he was a Lich, and there are many things related to him, his Robe of Vecna in BG2 and Morte and the Eye pf Vecna in PS:T) and Kyuss, and "Aditional Deity", God of the Creating Undeads.
    In BG2 you battle with many demons and devils (that battle between themselves sometimes), and you slay the Avatar of Demogorgon, the Lord of All that Swims in Darkness.
    EDIT/PS: I think you should play evil now, you'll enjoy it too, if you are playing evil make yourself devoted to yourself and ascend into divinity, being evil (IN A GAME!) can sometimes be funny (One day I was bored and killed all people that was drinking ale, with a psychotic Lawful Evil PC (I play mad characters too often, as well as I am playing much more female PCs than before).
  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    @CrevsDaak

    I shall not be tempted into darkness!

    I play evil in other games. I have a 2,000pts-3,000pts Chaos Space Marine army for Warhammer 40K. Though it's been years since I played, hence why I'm not sure how many points my models would make with the new rules.
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    edited January 2014
    By the way, Helm is Lawful Neutral but he's leaning on Good and still lives in Celestia.
    Helm also has Paladins and can actually have Lawful Good Clerics. In 3.5E at least.

    If I'm not mistaken, there were three "Mystras" (Goddess of Magic), though the first one was called Mystryl.
    1st. Sacrificed herself to stop Karsus from becoming a god, causing Netheril to be destroyed.
    2nd. Killed by Helm in the Time of Troubles when she tried to bypass him to get back to the Weave.
    3rd. Killed by Cyric with the help of Shar, causing the Spellplague and the crumble of the Shadow Weave also.

    Each time a new mortal was chosen almost immediately I think to become the new Mystra, though not in the case after the Spellplague.
    In 4th Edition there's no Mystra, period, I think.
    Lore says that some of her power is kept into her Chosen (Elminster etc) and they might help in her resurrection or choosing a new god of magic.

    Depending on the edition (I assume ADnD/3.5 for the events of the BG games), Mystra is still alive.
    The new Mystra (after the Time of Troubles) has nothing to do with the one Helm killed. They were different people.

    Some other gods you can choose that are Lawful Good, are:
    Tyr the blind and maimed god of Justice
    Ilmater the Crying God. The god of altruistic suffering (see Jesus)
    Torm (my favorite) the Loyal Fury, slayer of Bane in the Time of Troubles
    Bahamut god of good and metallic dragons
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2014
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  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    @Shandyr
    Tyr died in 4E by demons in Celestia.
    Tyr also killed Helm for some silliness.
    And basically Torm took his place and Helm's place, I think.

    "Tyr...I... I never loved you." I never liked Tyr to be honest.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    edited January 2014
    I've been playing bg for a long time, but it's also all the d&d exposure I have. Frankly it all seems a bit silly to me, I treat forgotten realms as a convenient place for baldurs gate to happen, and not much else. Of course, the store is rather intertwined with the setting, and that's fine, but I just never took a likening too the lore. It's probably Tolkien's fault. I was raised on the stuff and have put it up on a pedestal over all other fantasy, or any other story, really. Don't try to take it down, either. None of you shall convince me that the works of Tolkien a anything less than life, the universe and everything. (Despite my obsession the hit hikers guide to the galaxy also had a lasting impact, as you can see)
    Anyway, back to d&d lore. I'll try to explain myself. I always saw it as a bit forced, with elminster and his pointy hat a massive, palatable, LotR rip off. (Not you, @elminster, your fine:) and all the names are screwy. It always seemed to me somewhat haphazard, like it was thrown together in an afternoon, and then taken to far. It would be nice to see a Ferúnian setting that was not an obvious copy of an earthly culture (if anyone knows of one, do point it out)
    It shares a place with the eregon books. A well done, popular, everything the way It needs to be fantasy in the shadow of j.r.r. Tolkien.
    I just want to make it clear, that this is only my opinion, which you (though you should be inclined to) do not have to share. Forgotten realms may be very good, I'm simply not very partial to it, separate from baldurs gate.
    Post edited by meagloth on
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    @meagloth
    I agree, I never liked Elminster too much either. He's too much of a Gandalf ripoff (which in turn is based on Merlin), though he's basically the alter-ego of Ed Greenwood, the creator of the Realms.

    Basically the major f--- ups happened with 4th Edition.

    My favorite edition lore-wise is probably 2nd (Myrkul and Bhaal ftw) but 3.5 for the rules themselves.
    That moron of a god Cyric killed both Bhaal and Mystra and weakened Mask. In turn he is imprisoned by the gods in 4E.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    I will say I love the 2e mechanics. It's so obscure, i don't think it would be better any other way.
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    Not that I'm an expert on deities or lawful good roleplay, but one of the deities I found most interesting is indeed a good one that may even help your conflict: Ilmater. Besides being the god of suffering, forgiveness and taking on the burden/guilt of others also falls in his domain. You could worship both Mystra and Helm, with Ilmater thrown it as your reason to forgive what he did to Mystra. It seems to be your main concern how to keep those two balanced in your faith. It could be a personal test of faith and ability to forgive to worship two deities that were involved in a direct conflict.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    How can a mortal forgive deities..?
  • KidCarnivalKidCarnival Member Posts: 3,747
    edited January 2014
    FinneousPJ said:

    How can a mortal forgive deities..?

    The same way a mortal could be conflicted over one deity killing another, I guess. I don't know much about spirituality.
    Post edited by KidCarnival on
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,870
    Siamorphe might be another possibility for you @Heindrich1988. While she's Lawful Neutral, her clerics can also be of Lawful Good just like Helm's. Another Faerûnian Lawful Good deity you might find interesting is Nobanion, the King of Beasts. Although he may be more fitting for paladins, rangers and druids, rather than kensai/mages.

    Or if you prefer more exotic believes, yet which are still part of Faerûn's campaign setting, try the Mulhorandi deities: Horus-Re is a save bet for any Lawful Good character, as is Osiris.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    @Heindrich1988, you might want to check out Azuth, Mystra's consort. He's lawful neutral, but his philosophy of magic might match up with yours.

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Azuth
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • HeindrichHeindrich Member, Moderator Posts: 2,959
    edited January 2014
    Hey guys, many thanks for your responses and suggestions. I have much to ponder...

    @Shandyr
    Thanks for clearing up the different Mystras... I got confused between the Time of Troubles and the Spell Plague. Although this does raise some problems... my favourite Mystra is the one who was born a peasant girl, and enforced rules upon the use of magic when she became the Mother of All Magic, including the prohibition of spells above lv10. Unfortunately this Mystra is already dead by the events of Baldur's Gate, so I can't even blissfully pretend that Charname can worship her and Helm without any conflicting emotions.

    @meagloth
    I was also initially quite... uneasy, about the lore and mechanics of D&D. I am more used to Tolkien and Warhammer Fantasy, and concepts such as 'mana' when it comes to spellcasting, not the 'scribe scroll and memorise spells' of mages and the strange implementation of sorcerers. It also bothers me that melee THAC0 is modified by Str, and not Dex, which would make more sense in terms of striking accuracy. Oh and the insignificance of death really bugs me too, and I still just pretend that it means 'critically wounded and would die without professional medical assistance.'

    However... as I got more into the game, the FR setting kinda grew on me, and I decided to try harder to accept the wider world and lore, and not just the snapshot I see in Baldur's Gate. I am more accepting now of the idea of different planes, even though it seems to detract from the significance of what you do. (Yay I saved a city! ... meh... there's infinite planes with infinite worlds and infinite cities, ur efforts are but a drop in the multiverse ocean.) But I find it very hard to accept Spell Plague. It happens so soon after the Bhaalspawn saga, and makes your efforts utterly pointless in the grand scheme of things, not to mention all the spellcasting NPCs like Aerie and Imoen were likely killed or crippled by it. So I think I'll go with @BelgarathMTH and just pretend 4th Ed and Spellplague never happens.

  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Heindrich1988 said:

    Oh and the insignificance of death really bugs me too, and I still just pretend that it means 'critically wounded and would die without professional medical assistance.'


    Heindrich, my first pen and paper was actually a warhammer campaign done with Pathfinder rules. I remember the DM at the time saying how brutal Warhammer was, and that characters die very often with no resurrection.
  • Viconia_DeVirViconia_DeVir Member Posts: 80
    Since I suspect I have little of use to add, I'll hold my tongue on the subject - but I've read all written here with great interest.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Viconia_DeVir said:

    Since I suspect I have little of use to add, I'll hold my tongue on the subject - but I've read all written here with great interest.

    but... I was expecting some Sharhova's Witnessing
  • Viconia_DeVirViconia_DeVir Member Posts: 80
    Far be it from me to offer unwelcome advances, especially in matters of faith! One either hears the whispering from the Lady of Loss or not; converts are not won through canvassing but though experience. Though I might offer praise to her name or beg her supplication for divine spells, I've little mind to sing Shar's praises following such discussion of righteous deities!
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