@Schneidend whoa, i don't think i said it was related to feces, just not something i could immerse myself into. I'm an extremely picky person, and 2e and me sorta molded just right. It gave me the freedom to do what i wanted but it wasn't overwhelming. 3e i tried and it had it's potential, but i felt that what it did, 2e did better. You level up as a mage for say 5 levels, then earning experience as a mage, you use that experience to level up as a thief? Sure, you have the knock spell, and inivisibility, but to me, it seemed forced. 2e letting you start off as multi class made much more sense to me.
My only complaint is the forcing of using current rules on anything dnd based. It's a limitation in a game that was, in my OPINION, designed to give you freedom. Freedom from reality, freedom to be something you're not, freedom to experience things in your own imagination with good friends. I'm not going to argue over the details, because i don't care to change anyone's mind, and i know mine won't be changed. I just feel that if a person wants to create a game that fits in with 2e or 3e, they should be allowed, maybe pay extra, whatever, but there should be a way allowing that.
last note, if i start a flame war and get burned, well, i am a big boy and i can handle it, though it wasn't my intent.
This is probably the most obnoxious opening post I've ever read on this forum.
You must have missed the guy who thought Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 enhanced was referring to the Dark Alliance games, and when was later told about the PC games, insisted that the Dark Alliance games were among greatest co-op console games of all time, and that it would be way for profitable to remake them instead.
^Yeah this is a WAY worst, man as a person who owns both the Dark Allaince games, this is just pathetic to even think this is true.
Though this topic is bad, I would love Eliminister to give a lesson or power and choice, by giving us a living flashback of the fall of Myth Drannor. We could be one of the groups that fights to hold the city and see him cast the ridiculous spells he did before he disappeared suddenly and the city fell. He could be in our party then, and it would be the epic fight of the century. Maybe this could be a temporary time-travel spell and the lesson would benefit us based on our decisions and how long we held the city for the losing battle.
Naa... If elminster joined the party.. every single time the party were in a bad situation they would be bailed out by Mystra
I really like elminster as a character, and the goodie-toe-shoe in me like the fact that a good char is so badass... But damn, if you read the books. He have been bailed out by mystra more times than my last pen and paper druid bailed on his party and left them to die... (and a little hint.. thats alot.. when half of your spells are allotted to get out of trouble spells..)
But if he were a member of the party.. even shortly.. they would have to raise the age req to 18+ for all the casual sex that old dirty man is having
@Schneidend whoa, i don't think i said it was related to feces, just not something i could immerse myself into. I'm an extremely picky person, and 2e and me sorta molded just right. It gave me the freedom to do what i wanted but it wasn't overwhelming. 3e i tried and it had it's potential, but i felt that what it did, 2e did better. You level up as a mage for say 5 levels, then earning experience as a mage, you use that experience to level up as a thief? Sure, you have the knock spell, and inivisibility, but to me, it seemed forced. 2e letting you start off as multi class made much more sense to me.
My only complaint is the forcing of using current rules on anything dnd based. It's a limitation in a game that was, in my OPINION, designed to give you freedom. Freedom from reality, freedom to be something you're not, freedom to experience things in your own imagination with good friends. I'm not going to argue over the details, because i don't care to change anyone's mind, and i know mine won't be changed. I just feel that if a person wants to create a game that fits in with 2e or 3e, they should be allowed, maybe pay extra, whatever, but there should be a way allowing that.
last note, if i start a flame war and get burned, well, i am a big boy and i can handle it, though it wasn't my intent.
Well, dude, you literally said 3E "came out and ruined everything," so I can only imagine how you feel about 4th. Those are harsh, inflammatory words that could definitely start something. I've long since stopped trying my hand at proving 4E's legitimacy, so I merely said what I said to curb the possibility of an edition war on a forum where that has no place. As you say, nobody's minds would change.
As far as being able to play a video game in whatever edition you want, well, that's impossible for two reasons. First, WotC has a product that is actually on the shelves they need to promote. Hobby stores aren't stocking a lot of 2E or 3E handbooks, although the reprints of the 1E manuals are. Second, game development takes time, lots of time, and money. No amount of "paying extra" would allow making two completely different versions of the same game feasible.
I think BG's marketplace is mainly gamers who love what worked with the game: isometric 2D graphics and 2nd ed. AD&D. That and of course a great tale with excellent characters. Anyway, I'll be a little surprised if for BG3 Beamdog uses 3D graphics and other than BG/BG2:EE's current ruleset.
In my very humble opinion, the industry's attempts to follow the success of the BG series with 3D graphics and later D&D rulesets have failed to measure up.
I think what Beamdog is doing by essentially retooling/perfecting something that is already great is smart business, and almost guaranteed to be successful--provided of course that they produce a strong story with great characters.
I think BG's marketplace is mainly gamers who love what worked with the game: isometric 2D graphics and 2nd ed. AD&D. That and of course a great tale with excellent characters. Anyway, I'll be a little surprised if for BG3 Beamdog uses 3D graphics and other than BG/BG2:EE's current ruleset.
In my very humble opinion, the industry's attempts to follow the success of the BG series with 3D graphics and later D&D rulesets have failed to measure up.
I think what Beamdog is doing by essentially retooling/perfecting something that is already great is smart business, and almost guaranteed to be successful--provided of course that they produce a strong story with great characters.
The failure to measure up is also largely due to two things. One, rose-tinted glasses, nothing influences gamers quite like nostalgia. Two, nobody has been willing to put forth the kind of effort that Black Isle/Obsidian and Bioware do. Even Bioware slipped when they made this whole new engine for NWN and then didn't really bother putting together a decent campaign or proper party support for it. Neither of these things are the fault of 3D graphics or D&D rulesets.
I think BG's marketplace is mainly gamers who love what worked with the game: isometric 2D graphics and 2nd ed. AD&D. That and of course a great tale with excellent characters. Anyway, I'll be a little surprised if for BG3 Beamdog uses 3D graphics and other than BG/BG2:EE's current ruleset.
In my very humble opinion, the industry's attempts to follow the success of the BG series with 3D graphics and later D&D rulesets have failed to measure up.
I think what Beamdog is doing by essentially retooling/perfecting something that is already great is smart business, and almost guaranteed to be successful--provided of course that they produce a strong story with great characters.
The failure to measure up is also largely due to two things. One, rose-tinted glasses, nothing influences gamers quite like nostalgia. Two, nobody has been willing to put forth the kind of effort that Black Isle/Obsidian and Bioware do. Even Bioware slipped when they made this whole new engine for NWN and then didn't really bother putting together a decent campaign or proper party support for it. Neither of these things are the fault of 3D graphics or D&D rulesets.
I agree about the campaign in NWN and NWN2. But my own experience of 3D graphics in general has been that, at least for me, it tends to call attention to the fact that the world is artificial. Even though BG's graphics are comparatively more primitive, they have no pretense toward trying to create a 'realistic' appearance to the gameworld. And in an odd sort of way, for me, that worked toward greater immersion. I just loved the way the game itself worked.
To be fair I only tried NWN, NWN2, Morrowind, and Star Wars ToR. I didn't even come close to finishing any of them. But what I did complete was for me the same sort of hollow experience each time. I just could not get into them.
The only other computer game I have ever enjoyed other than the BG series is Age of Empires: The Conquerors, lol. I guess those two landmark games' isometic 2D graphics imprinted themselves on my brain. I'm probably not representative.
"You DARE attack me here? Do you even know whom you face?!" "As a matter of fact I do, young elf. I'm Elminster." And so Irenicus went and redeemed himself as soon as possible, got back with his former love, barricaded the doors and boarded the windows and prayed to the gods of Faerun that Elminster didn't find him.
"You DARE attack me here? Do you even know whom you face?!" "As a matter of fact I do, young elf. I'm Elminster." And so Irenicus went and redeemed himself as soon as possible, got back with his former love, barricaded the doors and boarded the windows and prayed to the gods of Faerun that Elminster didn't find him.
I mean, fuckin' Elminster.
The real question is what would happen between Elminster and the Cowled Wizards.
@Schneidend okay, let me clarify. I don't understand the way that the use of any system of dnd rules to a game is set up. I know that they want to use the newest rules possible, but being inflexible causes you to break in hard times. But that's another story.
My comment: I do wonder if that's why ToB was rushed? So they could get it out before 3e came out and ruined everything?
what i meant was that Baldur's gate was set deeply in 2e edition rules. My thought on the subject was that if they knew that 3e was coming out, and that it would very different, then maybe they needed to rush the game so that they wouldn't be forced to use 3e rules in a game that was based around 2e. You use the same chars from the previous 2 games, and the attempted transistion would "ruin" alot about the game, in my opinion. Basically, the only way that i think it would work is if you sat at the comp and adjusted all you pc's levels as you saw fit, time consuming and annoying, but doable, but the company would have to change all the npc party members levels as they thought best, which alot of people would disagree with and be upset about. Maybe the option to do it yourself, but that would take a long time (probably longer then rerolling for stats).
So while i'm not a fan of 3e the same way i'm a fan of 2e, changing the rules in the middle of an established story line would bring about alot of possibility for ruin. Weren't the supposed to have your BG1/2/ToB char exportable to NWN, but due to NWN using 3e, they said it wasn't feasiable?
That was what i meant. I mean no offense to 3e and those who love it. I guess i'm not very good at getting my point across, and people do often tell me that people think i come off as cocky/arrogent until they get to know me and realize that's not how i mean it. So i realize it was my failing, just not sure how to fix it.
Thanks for trying to look out for me though man. I love the sense of brotherhood on these forums.
@Twilight_Fox Elminster can cast beyond level 9 or 10 spells??
Yes, he's a level 29 wizard in 2e. The Heroes' Lorebook details his powers.
Hmm...I thought after what happened because of Karsus' Avatar, everyone has been blocked to use above level 9 spells? From the given figures, he could cast level 10, 11, 12, 13..how is that possible?
@Twilight_Fox Elminster can cast beyond level 9 or 10 spells??
Yes, he's a level 29 wizard in 2e. The Heroes' Lorebook details his powers.
Hmm...I thought after what happened because of Karsus' Avatar, everyone has been blocked to use above level 9 spells? From the given figures, he could cast level 10, 11, 12, 13..how is that possible?
I'll be honest that for 2nd ed. AD&D I really don't recall, it's been such a long time since I indulged in this pastime. In 3e there's Epic Level Casting, which bypasses the Weave and requires tremendous resources from the mage individually.
For our purposes in the BG game I'd be curious to know what Elminster's .cre file looks like. No doubt the devs made him badass.
@Schneidend okay, let me clarify. I don't understand the way that the use of any system of dnd rules to a game is set up. I know that they want to use the newest rules possible, but being inflexible causes you to break in hard times. But that's another story.
They're not being inflexible. They're trying to market a product that actually exists on store shelves. WotC gains absolutely nothing by promoting a ruleset they are no longer selling handbooks for. BG:EE is an overhaul, so that's different, but a new game has to have the most recent iteration of the tabletop rules because that's just GOOD BUSINESS SENSE. Though, considering Daggerdale is totally anomalous in this regard and plays more like Dynasty Warriors mixed with Diablo, I might be wrong about WotC's current business model.
Still, though, we're long overdue for a 4E video game.
Hmmm... maybe the next game, BG 3, could take place in SIlverymoon. Imagine if the new protagonist had been raised or taught by Laeral...
ooo another good idea, Waterdeep or Silverymoon see there are so many unexplored venues to take the AD&D CRPG too...... I kind of like the idea of having the Chosen of Mystra in the periphery of the next game.
Comments
My only complaint is the forcing of using current rules on anything dnd based. It's a limitation in a game that was, in my OPINION, designed to give you freedom. Freedom from reality, freedom to be something you're not, freedom to experience things in your own imagination with good friends. I'm not going to argue over the details, because i don't care to change anyone's mind, and i know mine won't be changed. I just feel that if a person wants to create a game that fits in with 2e or 3e, they should be allowed, maybe pay extra, whatever, but there should be a way allowing that.
last note, if i start a flame war and get burned, well, i am a big boy and i can handle it, though it wasn't my intent.
What if Baldur's Gate turned into a giant robot with an axe and a laser beam and stuff and started marching towards Athlatka?
(Actually, Sarevok would have loved it. Maybe he should have spent some time in the temple of Gond.)
I really like elminster as a character, and the goodie-toe-shoe in me like the fact that a good char is so badass... But damn, if you read the books. He have been bailed out by mystra more times than my last pen and paper druid bailed on his party and left them to die... (and a little hint.. thats alot.. when half of your spells are allotted to get out of trouble spells..)
But if he were a member of the party.. even shortly.. they would have to raise the age req to 18+ for all the casual sex that old dirty man is having
As far as being able to play a video game in whatever edition you want, well, that's impossible for two reasons. First, WotC has a product that is actually on the shelves they need to promote. Hobby stores aren't stocking a lot of 2E or 3E handbooks, although the reprints of the 1E manuals are. Second, game development takes time, lots of time, and money. No amount of "paying extra" would allow making two completely different versions of the same game feasible.
In my very humble opinion, the industry's attempts to follow the success of the BG series with 3D graphics and later D&D rulesets have failed to measure up.
I think what Beamdog is doing by essentially retooling/perfecting something that is already great is smart business, and almost guaranteed to be successful--provided of course that they produce a strong story with great characters.
To be fair I only tried NWN, NWN2, Morrowind, and Star Wars ToR. I didn't even come close to finishing any of them. But what I did complete was for me the same sort of hollow experience each time. I just could not get into them.
The only other computer game I have ever enjoyed other than the BG series is Age of Empires: The Conquerors, lol. I guess those two landmark games' isometic 2D graphics imprinted themselves on my brain. I'm probably not representative.
"As a matter of fact I do, young elf. I'm Elminster."
And so Irenicus went and redeemed himself as soon as possible, got back with his former love, barricaded the doors and boarded the windows and prayed to the gods of Faerun that Elminster didn't find him.
I mean, fuckin' Elminster.
My comment: I do wonder if that's why ToB was rushed? So they could get it out before 3e came out and ruined everything?
what i meant was that Baldur's gate was set deeply in 2e edition rules. My thought on the subject was that if they knew that 3e was coming out, and that it would very different, then maybe they needed to rush the game so that they wouldn't be forced to use 3e rules in a game that was based around 2e. You use the same chars from the previous 2 games, and the attempted transistion would "ruin" alot about the game, in my opinion. Basically, the only way that i think it would work is if you sat at the comp and adjusted all you pc's levels as you saw fit, time consuming and annoying, but doable, but the company would have to change all the npc party members levels as they thought best, which alot of people would disagree with and be upset about. Maybe the option to do it yourself, but that would take a long time (probably longer then rerolling for stats).
So while i'm not a fan of 3e the same way i'm a fan of 2e, changing the rules in the middle of an established story line would bring about alot of possibility for ruin. Weren't the supposed to have your BG1/2/ToB char exportable to NWN, but due to NWN using 3e, they said it wasn't feasiable?
That was what i meant. I mean no offense to 3e and those who love it. I guess i'm not very good at getting my point across, and people do often tell me that people think i come off as cocky/arrogent until they get to know me and realize that's not how i mean it. So i realize it was my failing, just not sure how to fix it.
Thanks for trying to look out for me though man. I love the sense of brotherhood on these forums.
For our purposes in the BG game I'd be curious to know what Elminster's .cre file looks like. No doubt the devs made him badass.
Still, though, we're long overdue for a 4E video game.