hey man! you wont be disappointed. Yoshimo is one of my favorite NPCs and is quite useful. You may want to install the Yoshimo Friendship Mod. It is really good.
I use thieves mostly for scouting ahead, disarming traps and grabbing the treasure from locked chests after the fighting is done. I dislike the micromanagement of setting traps or positioning yourself for a backstab. So for me the Swashbuckler is the best vanilla thief. If mods are included, my favourite Thief subclass is the Adventurer, from Gibberling3's Song and Silence mod:
ADVENTURER: The adventurer is a jack-of-all-trades, not so much a thief as a character who takes advantage of general thiefly skills on adventures. An Adventurer is preferred by many adventuring parties, because he is much less likely than other thieves to betray or steal from his own companions. The successful Adventurer knows the value of trust and cooperation, while many a "street thief" has been raised on duplicity and (sometimes literal) backstabbing.
Advantages: - +5% to Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps every other level
Disadvantages: - No backstab multiplier
The description is exactly how I use Imoen or Alora (I've never liked thieves as a PC class, I prefer the spellblade type: swords and sorcery for my hero and leave the scouting and lockpicking to my party).
Hey, you should check out the Rogue Rebalancing mod. It changes up the kits and base classes in some ways to make the thief and bard classes more competitive with warriors, wizards and clerics (would like some more druid rebalancings, but eh)
They make Swashbuckler thac0 progress at the fighter level (and you level up faster!!!!!! so that is significant). You do trade the damage additions though, but I'd say it still overall becomes more playable as a pure-class thief (you are also barred from dualing to fighter)
You also get some awesome HLAs. The bounty hunter changes are a bit different, and kinda cool. You get traps (in addition to normal traps) that do damage that only counts as non-lethal, but are more useful since they can daze, slow, entangle, blind or knock unconscious your victims. They also have a different "poison weapon" that paralyzes the target, which is really cool.
It is perfectly compatible with the EEs and even add some nice weapons to the mix (talk to the merchant in the Shadow Thieves guildhall) and a really hard encounter that you can actually change the outcome on based on your intelligence, charisma, wisdom or lore! Super cool.
@booinyoureyes I agree completely. Rogue Rebalance is outstanding and pretty much my favorite BG mod. It also makes the Bounty Hunters traps more logical (a tad less powerful, true, but far more logical).
Hey man, if you could install it maybe with mlnevese's help or from one of his prior posts, I think it would be worth your time, especially if you plan on having a thief of some sort in a key role, or especially if you like bards (I love them)
Swashbuckler, yarr! Nothing beats a pirate who dual wields katana and scimitar. Serious enemies are immune to backstab, so its loss is nothing great... And the specialization is so good, that makes you somewhat of a fighter already. Swashbuckler (15) dual to Mage, is one very useful and viable build, that practically turns you into a fighter/mage/thief without backstab! THE, deal...
Swashbuckler is one (if not THE) of the best single class character in the game.
I have recently played one in a solo/no reload/no rest in dungeon run and it was VERY easy and very user friendly (no downtime, no buffing, can deal with everything in the game) - traps are great but often cheesy - UAI lets you get some very nice protective items (staff of magi,...) - you can reach very low AC very easily (with +9 bonus), therefore becoming nearly invulnerable to physical damage (scrolls can be used if necessary) - dual wiedling speed weapons you can reach 4 attacks / round with massive damage bonus on each attack. - using whirlwind, you still get a +4 damage/attack bonus compared to a fighter/thief.
Basically with swashbuckler you get a fighter/thief while having a single class thief, the only thing you lack is backstab but since most harder foes are immune to it, you are not losing that much.
Bounty hunter is probably ok but let's face it : special traps are not necessary.
Against basic ennemies : using traps is not necessary. The swashbuckler will shred them. Against mages : mostly useless (they don't move so they won't get in your traps) Against powerful mobs (dragons, twisted runs) : very powerful but cheesy. Also the basic traps are more than sufficient to kill everything (shadow dragon dies with just 5 normal level 21 traps). If you add HLA, you really don't need special traps.
Overall the bounty hunter is probably the weakest thief : the assassin being the mage killer and the swashbuckler the melee killer.
I played a Swashbuckler once, and it was kind of fun (probably moreso in BG2 but I only played it in BG1). The problem is, I am loving backstab more and more as I replay the series--also, traps are fun. I don't always abuse the traps, I try and find justifications. The first Lich I found I fought legitimately. The next few crypts I found I knew what I was up against and trapped in front of where he was gonna pop up like crazy. Certain enemies that you can see before you fight? Well I figured if I could do it stealthily or invisibly, it's legit.
From a power-game point of view, traps get you through so many of the fights in the game if you really have trouble with them--a bounty hunter gets more traps that do bonus stuff which is even more fun (and start with a higher percentage). The HLA traps are even more unnecessary, but end fights faster and you don't have to rest as much. Bounty Hunters can still backstab, which even though you can't backstab dragons, you can certainly backstab many other creatures (even undead for some reason).
Also, in my most recent play through my Two-weapon fighters frequently pulled out shields just to boost their AC and didn't need an extra weapon when they got Whirlwind attack and Greater Whirlwind Attack, so I have almost completely done away with fighting with two weapons unless I am looking for immunities to certain holds/confusions/etc. when fighting casters.
Problem is, I role played my Blade exactly like that when it comes to interaction, and I had both evil and good characters in party, as she was Good but not judgmental.
Also, Thief Stronghold is the first one I had, and I want to try other ones i never had, like Ranger or Paladin :-(
I have to go with swashbuckler. It's not that I actually think one is better than the other, they both have their uses. I just like the idea of a swashbuckler better than a bounty hunter. Swashbuckler brings up the image of Errol Flynn or The Three Musketeers. Feathers in the hats, light swords and acrobatic wit. ... Bounty hunter just brings up images of star wars or reality t.v. shows.
Swashbuckler is one (if not THE) of the best single class character in the game.
Overall the bounty hunter is probably the weakest thief : the assassin being the mage killer and the swashbuckler the melee killer.
If I agree completely with you about the smashbuckler (let'S face it, he's awesome!), it's like you've never play a bounty hunter proprely. He asked for some micromanagement of course, but trapping before and during combat from a distance with maze as an added effect makes him probably the most overpower character possible.
Comments
Bounty Hunter is a much cooler concept, despite having less universal usefulness than the other Thief kits.
ADVENTURER: The adventurer is a jack-of-all-trades, not so much a thief as a character who takes advantage of general thiefly skills on adventures. An Adventurer is preferred by many adventuring parties, because he is much less likely than other thieves to betray or steal from his own companions. The successful Adventurer knows the value of trust and cooperation, while many a "street thief" has been raised on duplicity and (sometimes literal) backstabbing.
Advantages:
- +5% to Open Locks and Find/Remove Traps every other level
Disadvantages:
- No backstab multiplier
The description is exactly how I use Imoen or Alora (I've never liked thieves as a PC class, I prefer the spellblade type: swords and sorcery for my hero and leave the scouting and lockpicking to my party).
They make Swashbuckler thac0 progress at the fighter level (and you level up faster!!!!!! so that is significant). You do trade the damage additions though, but I'd say it still overall becomes more playable as a pure-class thief (you are also barred from dualing to fighter)
You also get some awesome HLAs. The bounty hunter changes are a bit different, and kinda cool. You get traps (in addition to normal traps) that do damage that only counts as non-lethal, but are more useful since they can daze, slow, entangle, blind or knock unconscious your victims. They also have a different "poison weapon" that paralyzes the target, which is really cool.
It is perfectly compatible with the EEs and even add some nice weapons to the mix (talk to the merchant in the Shadow Thieves guildhall) and a really hard encounter that you can actually change the outcome on based on your intelligence, charisma, wisdom or lore! Super cool.
Check it out here for download: http://www.spellholdstudios.net/ie/rr
and here for a list of features: http://readme.spellholdstudios.net/readme_rr.html
I have recently played one in a solo/no reload/no rest in dungeon run and it was VERY easy and very user friendly (no downtime, no buffing, can deal with everything in the game)
- traps are great but often cheesy
- UAI lets you get some very nice protective items (staff of magi,...)
- you can reach very low AC very easily (with +9 bonus), therefore becoming nearly invulnerable to physical damage (scrolls can be used if necessary)
- dual wiedling speed weapons you can reach 4 attacks / round with massive damage bonus on each attack.
- using whirlwind, you still get a +4 damage/attack bonus compared to a fighter/thief.
Basically with swashbuckler you get a fighter/thief while having a single class thief, the only thing you lack is backstab but since most harder foes are immune to it, you are not losing that much.
Bounty hunter is probably ok but let's face it : special traps are not necessary.
Against basic ennemies : using traps is not necessary. The swashbuckler will shred them.
Against mages : mostly useless (they don't move so they won't get in your traps)
Against powerful mobs (dragons, twisted runs) : very powerful but cheesy. Also the basic traps are more than sufficient to kill everything (shadow dragon dies with just 5 normal level 21 traps). If you add HLA, you really don't need special traps.
Overall the bounty hunter is probably the weakest thief : the assassin being the mage killer and the swashbuckler the melee killer.
I don't always abuse the traps, I try and find justifications. The first Lich I found I fought legitimately. The next few crypts I found I knew what I was up against and trapped in front of where he was gonna pop up like crazy. Certain enemies that you can see before you fight? Well I figured if I could do it stealthily or invisibly, it's legit.
From a power-game point of view, traps get you through so many of the fights in the game if you really have trouble with them--a bounty hunter gets more traps that do bonus stuff which is even more fun (and start with a higher percentage). The HLA traps are even more unnecessary, but end fights faster and you don't have to rest as much. Bounty Hunters can still backstab, which even though you can't backstab dragons, you can certainly backstab many other creatures (even undead for some reason).
Also, in my most recent play through my Two-weapon fighters frequently pulled out shields just to boost their AC and didn't need an extra weapon when they got Whirlwind attack and Greater Whirlwind Attack, so I have almost completely done away with fighting with two weapons unless I am looking for immunities to certain holds/confusions/etc. when fighting casters.
Swashbuckler because I liked the mod(s) turning Imoen into a swashbuckler.
Long gone glory days for the bounty hunter cheaters who were able to "throw" their special traps. I cannot remember when this was fixed. ToB release ?
Fenton Kinkaid
A Chaotic Good Male Halfling Thief/Swashbuckler
was fun to play from a Role Playing perspective
Also, Thief Stronghold is the first one I had, and I want to try other ones i never had, like Ranger or Paladin :-(
Bounty hunter just brings up images of star wars or reality t.v. shows.