Another idea about Forgotten Realms divinity
BelgarathMTH
Member Posts: 5,653
Hey, I've been playing a cleric the past couple of weeks in a Neverwinter Nights run.
I've noticed again how awesome my cleric is compared to most other classes.
For example, clerics are the only class in NWN that can cast Negative Energy Protection. That's extremely important in my install, since I have Tony K's AI plus some other mods that add up to the NWN equivalent of SCS. In my install, *every* divine caster boss casts Cause Wounds spells, over and over, liberally mixed with save-or-die spells.
With the smart casters, one also needs Free Action and Death Ward, the sooner the better. Gulnan spams Cause Wounds spells, mixed with Slay Living, and Meldanen spams Hold Person. It only gets worse as I progress into the game. The Spell Resistance spell starts to help more and more.
Druids don't get Negative Energy Protection or Spell Resistance, and only get Free Action and Death Ward a level later than the cleric. Paladins can get the crucial protections up to level four, but only at higher character levels. (Gulnan almost mopped the floor with my pally - I only won by healing kit spamming, which felt phony to me, which is why I restarted and switched to cleric.)
In BG, I think the spell Chaotic Commands is worth carrying divine casters, all on its own. As a bonus, while building up to the critical Chaotic Commands spell, a young cleric gets Command, Hold Person and Silence, not to mention Remove Fear, Protection from Evil 10', Draw Upon Holy Might, and Righteous Magic.
So, that's what got me to thinking about this, but, here's the point:
In real life religion, I was raised in a denomination of Christianity that taught something along the lines of "Not by my will (or power), Lord, but Yours." The implication was that one could live a successful life and be protected, loved, and boosted to power by the divinity, but only as long as one maintained a sense of humility about where the power was coming from. There was a parallel line of thought along the lines of "Why do so many people refuse to serve the Lord? He does so much for us, if only we surrender to His will."
And of course, that's very provocative thinking for a person who wants and needs to be independent, or who has traits or needs that are proscribed by any known available "religion". Those people tend to form a dichotomy, where their opposite philosophy surrounds a thematic focus of "Surrender? Never! *I* will survive by *myself*, and myself alone!"
So, I was thinking, those kinds of attitudes are pretty common in a lot of religion, both real and imagined. In the Forgotten Realms, clerics have a vested interest in increasing worship of their god, which increases their own power in tandem. And really, all clerics have a shared interest in increasing worship of the gods in general.
In the game Sacred, the Seraphim, who was a female divine paladin/cleric type, had a battle cry where she shouted, "Trust in the gods!"
So, in Forgotten Realms, perhaps the most effective clerics are those who constantly preach, "Trust in the gods!" And then, "How about my god, ...fill in the blank...", and then "No? Well how about one of his or her allies, such as ...fill in the blank...? Here, let me heal you. And I can cure that disease your child has. Oh, and I can grow back your wife's severed finger. While I'm at it, your sister passed before her time. Let me raise her. Sister, come forth! My god gives me these abilities. No, don't thank me, thank my god!"
There are only a few divinities so opposed that each god in the polarity seeks the destruction of the other's entire portfolio - such as, for example, Nobanion and Malar.
Anyhoo, I think my point may be getting lost in all my musing about it. I'm thinking about "faith" in the Forgotten Realms, where it is demonstrably rewarded. The more time one spends praying, meditating, and pleasing a god, the greater the rewards. In fact, I have taken to calling my cleric's "spell book", his "prayer book."
Which all could lead to a clerical attitude of "Why *wouldn't* anyone worship the gods, who give us all these gifts?" It's kind of interesting to me how it works in this fantasy world.
I think I may have been influenced in wanting to discuss these ideas by @TheSpyder 's topic. Although this one is not specifically about wizards. I don't know, if any of you moderators think it's the same thing, then feel free to merge.
I've noticed again how awesome my cleric is compared to most other classes.
For example, clerics are the only class in NWN that can cast Negative Energy Protection. That's extremely important in my install, since I have Tony K's AI plus some other mods that add up to the NWN equivalent of SCS. In my install, *every* divine caster boss casts Cause Wounds spells, over and over, liberally mixed with save-or-die spells.
With the smart casters, one also needs Free Action and Death Ward, the sooner the better. Gulnan spams Cause Wounds spells, mixed with Slay Living, and Meldanen spams Hold Person. It only gets worse as I progress into the game. The Spell Resistance spell starts to help more and more.
Druids don't get Negative Energy Protection or Spell Resistance, and only get Free Action and Death Ward a level later than the cleric. Paladins can get the crucial protections up to level four, but only at higher character levels. (Gulnan almost mopped the floor with my pally - I only won by healing kit spamming, which felt phony to me, which is why I restarted and switched to cleric.)
In BG, I think the spell Chaotic Commands is worth carrying divine casters, all on its own. As a bonus, while building up to the critical Chaotic Commands spell, a young cleric gets Command, Hold Person and Silence, not to mention Remove Fear, Protection from Evil 10', Draw Upon Holy Might, and Righteous Magic.
So, that's what got me to thinking about this, but, here's the point:
In real life religion, I was raised in a denomination of Christianity that taught something along the lines of "Not by my will (or power), Lord, but Yours." The implication was that one could live a successful life and be protected, loved, and boosted to power by the divinity, but only as long as one maintained a sense of humility about where the power was coming from. There was a parallel line of thought along the lines of "Why do so many people refuse to serve the Lord? He does so much for us, if only we surrender to His will."
And of course, that's very provocative thinking for a person who wants and needs to be independent, or who has traits or needs that are proscribed by any known available "religion". Those people tend to form a dichotomy, where their opposite philosophy surrounds a thematic focus of "Surrender? Never! *I* will survive by *myself*, and myself alone!"
So, I was thinking, those kinds of attitudes are pretty common in a lot of religion, both real and imagined. In the Forgotten Realms, clerics have a vested interest in increasing worship of their god, which increases their own power in tandem. And really, all clerics have a shared interest in increasing worship of the gods in general.
In the game Sacred, the Seraphim, who was a female divine paladin/cleric type, had a battle cry where she shouted, "Trust in the gods!"
So, in Forgotten Realms, perhaps the most effective clerics are those who constantly preach, "Trust in the gods!" And then, "How about my god, ...fill in the blank...", and then "No? Well how about one of his or her allies, such as ...fill in the blank...? Here, let me heal you. And I can cure that disease your child has. Oh, and I can grow back your wife's severed finger. While I'm at it, your sister passed before her time. Let me raise her. Sister, come forth! My god gives me these abilities. No, don't thank me, thank my god!"
There are only a few divinities so opposed that each god in the polarity seeks the destruction of the other's entire portfolio - such as, for example, Nobanion and Malar.
Anyhoo, I think my point may be getting lost in all my musing about it. I'm thinking about "faith" in the Forgotten Realms, where it is demonstrably rewarded. The more time one spends praying, meditating, and pleasing a god, the greater the rewards. In fact, I have taken to calling my cleric's "spell book", his "prayer book."
Which all could lead to a clerical attitude of "Why *wouldn't* anyone worship the gods, who give us all these gifts?" It's kind of interesting to me how it works in this fantasy world.
I think I may have been influenced in wanting to discuss these ideas by @TheSpyder 's topic. Although this one is not specifically about wizards. I don't know, if any of you moderators think it's the same thing, then feel free to merge.
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Comments
The generalist would often behave as you said. They had a god they preached about but often wouldn't mind to preach about that deity's allies as well. They're BG2's cleric.
Specialty priests were followers of a single god and felt that only that god was worthy of being worshiped. They had higher score requisites and received extra powers, such as the clerics of Thalos in BG2, for instance.
And then you had common clerics, clerics with no magical powers at all whose function in the temple would heavily depend on which deity they worshiped.