Sundering, DnD Next and BG3? (spoilers!)
Cler1c
Member Posts: 32
Heya friends. 
I was wondering, since the new system is coming up and the new lore is being prepared by the "Sundering" series, is there a possibility to create a new BG series when Lord Ao rewrites the tablets of fate?
Can't say for you guys, but that would be an over the top joy for me. Imagine you put it on Kickstarter as well. A new epic adventure for generations to come.
Am I just daydreaming?
Take care!
I was wondering, since the new system is coming up and the new lore is being prepared by the "Sundering" series, is there a possibility to create a new BG series when Lord Ao rewrites the tablets of fate?
Can't say for you guys, but that would be an over the top joy for me.
Imagine you put it on Kickstarter as well. A new epic adventure for generations to come.Am I just daydreaming?
Take care!
Post edited by Lemernis on
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It would be based on the Planescape campaign setting for AD&D second edition with portals all over the place which are connected to Abeir-Toril, Athas, Krynn, Aebrynis, Wildspace, and the Demiplane of Dread. Alas, dreams are but shadows...
@CrevsDaak has already helped me create some Wuxia themed characters, but it would be just amazing to see a Wuxia setting in a BG style isometric game. Yeah... I know this fantasy is about as likely to happen as me developing Wuxia skills in real life... (I want to learn "Qinggong" i.e. 'flying'! and "Dragon Subduing Eighteen Strikes!").
1) As of the Murder in Baldur's Gate adventure, Bhaal is back. A video game doesn't need to explain how he returned (Abdel Adrian need never be mentioned), only that he's back and has plans that must be stopped. This gives a connection to the old series via the return of the villain behind the scenes. If the franchise gets PCs high enough in level, it also provides an opportunity that the original series never capitalized on - the chance for the PC to face off against Bhaal himself.
2) Baldur's Gate has greatly expanded by the events of the Sundering. This gives a chance to keep the same basic structure of the city while giving it an overhaul, making it more intriguing, and providing new places to explore. Baldur's Gate could become a really fascinating place and the basis of a full campaign, rather than just the last few chapters of one game.
3) It's been 100+ years since the events of Throne of Bhaal. That's enough time for the old guard to have passed on and the events of the first game to become legend. (For example, Murder in Baldur's Gate has a statue of Minsc and Boo in it.) This provides a way to connect the new franchise to the old one thematically without it needing to bring the first series' protagonist in. Writers could even offer multiple canon choices through dialogue. (For example, "I heard that Gorion's Ward went on to rule a keep in Amn/Became a ruthless guildmaster in Athkatla.")
As to the system, from what I've seen the next edition of D&D is pretty similar to AD&D 2nd edition in a lot of ways. At the very least, the system as presented in playtest documents lends itself very well to an Infinity Engine kind of game.
I didn't know DnD Next is closer to the 2nd ed than the others. I haven't managed to take a look at the playtest documents, but I am eagerly awaiting the new world creation. Reading through the sundering books currently (just finished the 1st one in the series) and since I have been a devout follower of Abeir-Toril lore for more than a decade I am really looking forward to the new happenings.
A new BG recreation, as you have stated, might as well be right on spot with the the new ruleset and lore.
Putting it on Kickstarter would work wonders for sure.
@Heindrich I would like a Kara-Tur too, manly because Mage/Thieves will get insanely enchanted Katanas and Robes >:D and I like eastern culture a lot (I like culture in general a lot) so it's win win.
Stoic and arcane business practices of old are some business partners preferred choice of funding.
Whatever they do, they have a monumental task ahead of them.
Besides, DnD Next has already retconned most of the events from the first game from happening, and killed off the PC with a joke character to boot. Where the Baldur's Gate series and DnD Next intersect there's a lot of negative interest on my part.
As far as the Sundering, I hope it is better implemented than the Spell plague.
@chbrooks that is interesting to see about Bhaal reappearing in Murder in Baldur's Gate, Thanks. I think I may have to pop for it on Amazon to read what happens. The reviews look pretty good, actually. Here's a synopsis of what happened in the intervening time, at least to the best of my knowledge: And from what I have read, Edition: Next (aka 5th edition) has a customizable modular design that allows players to pick and choose the elements they want. So I'm hopeful that Beamdog might be able to craft something that resembles the basic design of the BG series and actually improves upon it.
At this point it's like you people just hate 4E for the sake of hating it.
Rules set is another issue entirely. I'm an AD&D guy. Spell Plague, Sundering, Air Raid Pearl Harbor, it's all the same to me. Just keep it in 1E or 2E.
I also like to see FR setting timeline going forward, even if I prefer some eras on others, but I really wish a probable future BG game set up on 2nd Ed ruleset for 2 reasons:
1- for the sake of continuity: I hate when I have to re-adapt myself in a sequel;
2- for my greater familiarity with that ruleset on the 4th or Next (which I never played so I can't express any opinion on it, however I've played the 4th and I've done also a D&D tournament based on that ruleset, I really don't like it, too semplified for my tastes).
The Spellplague killed a ton of NPCs, wrecked up the planes, eliminated gods, and dropped an entire continent on top of another part of the Realms. It was an attempt to make the Realms more accessible to newcomers, but it did away with a large part of the lore/characters that made the Realms appealing and royally ticked off existing fans.
The Sundering is WotC's attempt to put the toys back together and go back to something resembling the classic Realms without just hitting the retcon switch. The events are both world-shaking situations, but one marked a dramatic departure from what fans enjoyed about the setting and the other is seen as moving back to what worked.
Does it simply undo all the horrible things that 4e did to the FR (my knowledge of which is pretty sketchy)? If so, how does it do that without 'going back in time' ("hitting the retcon switch" of whatever)?
Thanks!
WotC re-issued the 1e and 2e books in order to generate some dough while 5e was being worked on, as well as to mend some fences with the 'old school' crowd who loathed 4e (and generally did not like 3e either). Likewise the 1e and 2e (and Basic/Expert) PDFs. Rather than have those things simply be pirated, some not-so-dim bulb in WotC figured out that they may as well make a bit of cash off them.
Some gods might have a shot of coming back like Helm-honestly it still baffles me that they killed him off, but again-I wouldn't expect everyone to come back, particularly all the deities that got killed off prior to the Spellplague (but still obviously part of WoTC plan to prune the gods) like the Drow Pantheon, and I certainly wouldn't expect all of the gods killed off in 4th edition to come back, even if some do-I'd be seriously surprised if Azuth popped his head up.
And of course any mortal killed in 4th edition-I wouldn't expect to see them come back.
Obviously if Overhaul wants to aim higher, create an all new game, and be a major gaming release its going to be D&D Next or whatever the current rule set is.
But there is a chance they will instead make something I'm interested in.
The appeal of those games for me was (and is) in their depth. Nowadays the focus is on graphics, 1st person (shooter) experience, and voice dialogues. Personally I still can't wrap my mind around the fact that PST was one of the rare games that really used character stats as interaction important elements rather than dumping points to achieve +5 damage or something similar.
Which reminds me - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/torment-tides-of-numenera
My bet is - when they succeed in sales others will follow. (I hope).
P.s. Imagine, just imagine that in the title instead of planescape it stated Baldur's Gate? Heck, the investments would go over the roof! (actually numenera's investments did go over the roof exactly because of that reason - promoting itself as the "spiritual" successor of PST)
Character Creation: Pic a subrace in addition to race, pick a specialty instead of a kit, pick a background (optional, so maybe not implemented). No weapon proficiencies, but three or so skills instead. Maybe pick a feat (another optional rule).
Character Advancement: Slightly more abilities to choose from each level, occasional ability score increases.
Combat: Removal of rate of fire (that thing which makes bows the best weapon in the game), a couple of tweaks here and there. No attacks of opportunity, powers, or combat maneuvers as in 3rd or 4th edition.
Healing: Rest until healed, occasionally get non-magic healing based on total hit dice.
Treasure: Fewer stat-boosting items and magic items with greater than a +1 bonus.
It really wouldn't be hard to implement this stuff, and most people wouldn't notice most of the tweaks.
And I think exactly to your point, it apparently IS possible for a smaller company with limited resources to turn out a BG-like game these days. If overhaul could take the fully mature game engine from their EE games and use it to put out a new game (or 12) I think they could find a market and support for that. Don't get me wrong, I know it would never be "huge" like an EA game or something, but it might please many of us here and turn a little profit.
Spiderweb games has put out some wonderful games on a much smaller budget that's for sure. I'd recommend them with the caveat that Mr Vogel has been streamlining his last couple of game quite a bit. The level of customization between say, Geneforge 4 and Avadon 2 is rather noticeable at this point.
Ist rule independant so I think the best way off picking this up, is to create CPRG rules that work side by side with 2e, 3.5e, 4e, 5e. Don't try to force a PnP ruleset in a CRPG, PnP rules are designed to be used by DM's, who make disicions. A computer can not anticipate on the player, it can not know if the player wants to roleplay itself out of a dragon fight or powerplay right to the treasure.
And oh my god, please no rerolls. Rerolls were never made to be implemented into a video game.
In PnP you rolled once. ONCE. And then arranged the stats as you saw fit.
This is impossible to do in a video game. Since players would just reroll all the time.
If the argument is: "Well, it's their choice whether to reroll." Then why don't we have a button or option in most games that say "Do you want to get maximum stats, levels and gold plus the best weapon in the game?". It's your choice if you want to cheat and ruin any game balance that's made to be challenging.
The PnP stat roll and point buy systems were made to keep PCs balanced and not max everything.
I would prefer a point buy system that set some limits on what you can max or not and you had to make compromises.
And well, the BG games were never trying to be true to ADnD. Based, maybe.
No race/class restrictions. Rerolls. No turn-based combat. Implementation of 3E stuff. No spell components etc etc.
While I would like a BG-like game, I wouldn't want to see the ADnD rules in it.
I believe many people like the freedom and choice of Icewind Dale II, while staying very true to the gameplay of the Infinity Engine games.
...And what's up with the people wanting a BG3? To me the BG Saga has ended with an epic climax and closure.
If we continue that story, it diminishes the epic climax and if it's a new story, it's not a BG game.
The Baldur's Gate Saga is Gorion's Ward story, in my opinion.
I want a new Infinity Engine game with an Enhanced Infinity Engine. Icewind Dale III perhaps. Or something new and fresh but true to the gameplay of those games. Like Pillars of Eternity.
Or you know, contact Paizo and create an Infinity Engine-like isometric game with the Pathfinder rules and the world of Golarion. No pressure from Atari or other such nonsense.
Temple of Elemental Evil, Planescape Torment and DDO were smart about that. They knew they could let their imagination go wild with settings that are not so extremely detailed and established.
I dislike 3E, and never even finished IWD2 simply because the rule set bored me. It's all about making everything equal/equal, which to me is boring/boring. Fundamental problems being point buys for stats, lack of race and multi-class distinctions, and the same experience table for every class. Instead of "D&D" it should be called "Game"; instead of a Fighter or Mage you play "Character"; and instead of the Forgotten Realms it should be called "setting". Soooo generic.
And of course the Bhaalspawn saga is over. But Baldur's Gate is a city, a setting and a brand. BG3 should be an all new story for all new characters, in the same style and setting.