Companions & Cooties: Gender composition of your parties!

SCARY_WIZARD

ANOTHER SCARY_WIZARD PRODUCTION!

So back in the Meme Thread 2nd Edition (give it time, I'll screw that one up with things I haven't playtested) (mine is the BECMI of Meme threads, it is therefore perfect in my eyes) we (meaning like a grand total of under umpteen members and maybe one moderator) got to talking about gender ratios in our Infinity Engine adventuring parties. Then I got the brilliant idea to make a thread about it!

THIS IS THE THREAD

So, Infinity Engine gamers, do you tend to prefer equal gender balance in your groups and take efforts to enforce this? Do you not allow any cooties into your groups? Or do you not care?
This will REALLY show in games like Icewind Dale, where you control the composition of your party!
also vote and discuss this fee-nummy-numm (that is, phenomenon) to your heart's content, but please keep the discussions civil. Anything above a remark about "cooties" or roleplayed behaviours is going to get a Dwayne Johnson eyebrow from me. Seriously.
DWAYNE JOHNSON EYEBROW
That aside, if you post here, feel free to add a FUN FUN FUUUN RATIONALE to your party's composition!

Myself, I usually find myself playing in groups where there are four to five members of one gender, and one or two of the opposite gender. Not counting familiars or Boo or Keto's Harp and Bottle. Or, in some cases, I'll end up with a party that's all one gender.

In my current (Dragon Disciple) playthrough, I have...

-Gorion's Ward (F). See, an elf and human loved each other very much and had a daughter, and uhh plot happened to their daughter, and...
-Branwen (F). It was either take Branwen along or don't take a healer along at all~
-Neera (F). "You're in trouble, I'm in trouble! Let's be friends!" So it's pretty much one Wild Mage who...didn't get her talent from study but from being Wheatley, and someone whose ancestor banged a brass dragon.
-Garrick (M). He's along because Gorion's Ward felt bad about killing Silke, and because she uhh found a letter of recommendation on Silke's body!
-Safana (F). Safana was pretty hot for Garrick and Rasaad, but since Rasaad went away she's now really only been following the group because weeeeellll they helped her get some good stuff in the past so why not stay with them. I mean Garrick's pretty awkward, and he totally acts confused when Safana asks for footrubs.
-Faldorn (F). Faldorn knows how to make Aloe Vera Balm, which is really good for burns. So Gorion's Ward was like, "yeah you can come with us".

Kamigoroshi

The gender composition of my party members tend to be either fully hermaphrodite (in the case of oozes), or fully neutrois (in the case of oozes).

SCARY_WIZARD

Kamigoroshi said:

The gender composition of my party members tend to be either fully hermaphrodite (in the case of oozes), or fully neutrois (in the case of oozes).

Talk about using splatbooks!

Sniiiimon

Well, sometimes it's more, like, four males and two females or vice versa... but for the most part I try to establish some sort of balance. The reason is simple; groups that are more diverse, in all the ways they can be as such, are more dynamic and interesting to me. From an RP standpoint, this diversity can also make for some interesting interactions between the characters.

jackjack

I don't even realize I'm doing it - it just keeps turning out that way.
But I've broken the mold in my main playthrough and have 4 males and 2 females in my party.
We'll see if it lasts…

ScotGaymer

I don't really care about the gender of the character, I just enjoy the character, and their utility.

When I play as a male CHARNAME, I ALWAYS jettison both Jaheira and Minsc as soon as I can role play jettisoning them. This is because they both have "problems" that irritate the crap out of me.

Jaheira's husband just died. The man she loved very much, her very heart and soul. And within about 2 days she begins prattling on about her "relationship" with CHARNAME and how she loves him. It's all very PTSD and disturbing and I send her away forthwith.

I don't actually have a problem with Minsc. I have a problem with what Bioware shackled him to, I mean Dynaheir is somewhat irritating but she is a tolerable kind of irritating but fast forward to BG2 and we have Aerie. IMO, the single most annoying character in the BG saga, more annoying than Quayle, Tiax, or Nalia. Nalia!
I actually hate Aerie more than I hate Saerileth. And I REALLY hate Saerileth.
It isn't Aerie's fault, not really. It's just that she is more whiny than Carth (though she has better reason to be than Carth - I mean she was literally mutilated), forms a quick and even more disturbing attachment to CHARNAME (unwarranted as my CHARNAME never so much as sneezed in her direction), and is frighteningly jealous, she displays a type of jealous that is bordering on psychotic.
Now you might say "but fitscotgaymer, you don't have to take her. she isn't shackled to Minsc the way Dynaheir is in BG1..." and to that I say maybe not in terms of gameplay she isn't but in terms of story and roleplaying she is. Once that "Will you be my Witch Aerie?" conversation occurs I can not in good conscience seperate them.

On good play thrus I either take Yoshimo, or Nalia. I also play with Mazzy half the time. But it really depends on my CHARNAME, party composition, and how I am roleplaying in that particular game.

shawne

Depends on the game, really. With BG, my preference for Evil NPCs tends to favor men over women (ie: Dorn, Kagain/Korgan, Edwin and Sarevok vs. Viconia and Shar-Teel/Hexxat), but in other RPGs I do sometimes find myself going the extra mile to put together an Amazon Brigade like Neeshka/Shandra/Zhjaeve/Qara in NWN2 or Aveline/Isabela/Merrill in DA2.

Rewolf

I usually have an equal ratio of gender composition. We don't want anyone to get jealous now, do we? The days when I am not into equality the ratio is usually 4:2

Montresor_SP

These days I usually plan my party in advance in accordance with my PC's alignment. Gender doesn't play a role, except in the choice of a romantic interest (if any).

Viconia_DeVir

When surrounded by an enjoyable surfeit of handsome males in my travels, such wandering became all the more tolerable. I found it a most satisfactory arrangement.

KidCarnival

Doesn't matter to me. I take party members that fit from their class and alignment, and sometimes their personality and backstory (in mixed alignment parties).
I mostly play evil, and most evil NPCs are male or have conflicts with other NPCs. Best example in BG1 - I would take Shar-Teel more often, but she has a conflict with Eldoth. There is only one evil bard, but there is Monty as evil thief alternative and Dorn as evil frontliner alternative. So I rather take the bard and Monty, Dorn or both. I would take Skie more often, if she wasn't late game. Mages, all 3 evil arcane casters are male; Edwin, Xzar, Baeloth, nothing I can do about it. Tank, just Kagain, again no other option. It comes down to Viconia and Shar-Teel as options. I take Shar-Teel if I play a bard and won't have Eldoth anyway. Viconia, almost never because I find Xzar makes a more useful cleric or I play a cleric charname. Sometimes I take Branwen or Faldorn until Xzar has his levels back, but I'd do the same with Tiax if he was available earlier.
In BG2, my party would default to Dorn, Korgan, Edwin, Viconia, Hexxat, unless I play one of the classes they have. Still a matter of alignment; I sometimes don't take Dorn and Hexxat because they don't get along with NPCs I want for their personality and roleplay. My jester is NE, but obsessed with status, so he'll take mixed parties with the 'nobles' - Nalia, Anomen, Keldorn, and as a personality match, fellow mage hater Valygar. Whoever from the evil team doesn't get along with them is out.

In Black Pits, I create the team based on available portraits. I really like the female monk one BG2 added, so if I have a monk, it's usually a female monk. I also really like the red-bearded warrior from BG1; it looks like I always imagined my cleric charname, so BP cleric will usually be male. Then I like the woman with blue facepaint from BG1 - chances my barbarian or druid will be female are pretty high due to that. Thief is usually male and an elf or half-elf because of a portrait that shows a male thief with pointy ears. I have portraits for a female half-orc warrior and a female dwarven warrior - again, good chance such classes will be female because I like the portraits. I have some male bard and thief portaits - hence these classes end up male. Mage, usually created last in BP, can go either way because I have portraits for both male and female. And the final choice is more often than not based on the colors of the portraits - either a clothing/facepaint color some of the other characters already use, or a color not present yet to have each with their own circle color.

Tarlugn

Protect the balance!

Coutelier

fitscotgaymer said:

Now you might say "but fitscotgaymer, you don't have to take her. she isn't shackled to Minsc the way Dynaheir is in BG1..." and to that I say maybe not in terms of gameplay she isn't but in terms of story and roleplaying she is. Once that "Will you be my Witch Aerie?" conversation occurs I can not in good conscience seperate them.

Or just point out the many ways in which that is all completely and utterly wrong. I can't be bothered to do it now though.

I usually do try for balance in my parties, but on my last few playthroughs I think I have ended up with more female characters in the party. The last BG1 ended up all female, although I hadn't planned it that way; Charname, Imoen, Shar'Teel, Skie, Branwen and Faldorn.

Necomancer

To say my first party in BG1 was a bit of a mess would be an understatement, especially since I decided to enforce death as permanent. My paladin keeps a mental list of all those who died under his service to keep himself humble and remind himself of why he must grow stronger. For the record, said list is: Xzar(Slain by red wizards attacking Neera), Montoron(Damn thee, Silke!), Garrick((OD's on kobold arrows), Dorn (Ghouls nommed his butt), Faldorn (Nasty traps) and Kivan(He didn't die in my playthrough, but since I didn't take Jaheira my head cannon I said the body they found wasn't Khalid, but Kivan)

Other characters left of their own accord, or at least thats what I told myself. These included Jaheira and Khalid(Got annoyed I went to the gnoll fortress instead of the mine, wasting more time), Misc and Dynaheir(Left to continue their mission), Edwin(Left because he hates me), Raseed(Turned to stone and when turned back decided to take some time off), Branwen(Left in a bout of home sickness), And then Shar-teel, Baeloth and Viconia all left when my reputation got too high (They also got tired of me stopping to help everyone ever. Even kids who lost their dogs. They still suspect Neera was responsible for how that ended)

In the end my party consisted of a male Paladin with a martyr and protector complex, Imoen, Neera, Ajantis(Paladin bros 4 life), Yeslick (I just realized his name is Yes, lick), and Kivan. Wich is an improperly balanced party gender wise but the only females left were thieves and I already had Imoen

In BG2 I've had alot less switching over. Though originally going to take Neera, Viconia, Valygar, Imoen and a currently undecided male (possibly Minsc) I have ended up with Aerie(I grew attached. I'm not sorry), Viconia, Anomen(Hes surprisingly useful), Haer'dalis (To help me break up with Aerie and not feel like an ass), Imoen and me, the paladin. Finally, a gender balance.

I also keep finding out people on my paladin's death list are alive, something wich has both caused him great suspicion, worry and a bit of annoyance (How can be be dark and brooding if everyone he felt guilty over are actually alive?!)

...Damn. Parenthesis are addictive.

elminster

Only way I care is if I'm planning on doing a romance, and even then I only care about the gender of charname. Otherwise its not a concern for me.

CrevsDaak

In the main game I take NPCs because of their Alignment, personalty and class, if it goes well with the PC, they are in.
In the Black Pits my party was ever composed by 3 females and 3 males, ever (well, I only played once :P).

KidCarnival

Necomancer said:

I also keep finding out people on my paladin's death list are alive, something wich has both caused him great suspicion, worry and a bit of annoyance (How can be be dark and brooding if everyone he felt guilty over are actually alive?!)

That can make for a really interesting character. If you find out you were beating yourself for no reason for a long time, it can change a person. (American Horror Story: Asylum has this story; a woman drunk driving and thinking she killed a girl, leaves her drinking and partying life behind, becomes a nun out of guilt, to find out years later the girl is alive and was only mildly injured in the accident.)

I also find the cameos and some returning NPCs immersion breaking, especially Edwin, Jaheira and Minsc. From my perspective, it makes sense that Edwin is alive - he was in my BG1 party and last seen alive. Jaheira, however, died right before my eyes when fighting Xzar and Monty in many a game. On the flipside, good aligned parties probably have the opposite case and the Harpers killed the Zhentarim, just to run into Xzar in BG2 and learn Montaron was killed in a different way and place. Or may have seen Minsc kill Edwin instead of vice versa.
In Viconia's case it's not so bad because Kivan isn't in BG2. Still a bit awkward if they were fighting in BG1 and Kivan won - Viconia is there, Kivan isn't? Still better than having both the NPC(s) who was killed and the one who killed them around, especially Jaheira and Xzar, where the fight is scripted to happen. Makes me wish for the option to find different NPCs in the starting dungeon, depending on charname's alignment (i.e. Xzar and Montaron or Shar-Teel if evil, Branwen or Xan and Jaheira if neutral, Minsc and Dynaheir or Khalid if good).

Also agreed with @fitscotgaymer; Minsc gets tied to another NPC roleplay-wise, and a good aligned charname may not want to take his new witch away after he just lost Dynaheir. It's not even a "revival" of the BG1 dynamic since Aerie is nothing like Dynaheir and not even a pure mage. I keep reading rumors that Minsc may make Nalia his new witch if Aerie isn't in the party, but it seems unconfirmed or a mod. It would be more flexible for roleplay if he'd have this mini quest with any non-evil arcane caster, so it would be an option for charname and possibly Neera.

But alas, that is a different topic.

Necomancer

@KidCarnival I doubt it'd change his attitude much, except possibly giving him a bit more confidence in his ability to keep people alive. Either way Kivan is still dead, and he traveled with my CHARNAME for a long time before Irenecus decided to be a jerk. Still, something to think about and I do agree with you about the starting NPCs. I'm still hoping someday someone can make a mod for that. Heck, you wouldn't even need a different method for breaking Shar-Teel out. Have her bend the bars if you make her angry as well, though in her case she might still want to beat the hell out of you even after she escapes.

randName

None of these, or it depends - my current party is all female but I've run all from balanced, to RP parties with all men or women, to what ever is most useful etc.

So both min-max and Roleplay, but never balance for the sake of balance I guess.

Coutelier

Cleric/Mage is closer to an actual witch, and I can't think of any character more suitable than Aerie. Minsc likely sees Imoen as more of a rogue, and much the same for Neera. Nalia isn't interested in travel; she has her own plans. Whereas Aerie joins the party because she wants to explore learn about the world; she's on a dajemma of sorts anyway. Despite her becoming a bit unhappy in her romance, Aerie is generally quiet and introspective, so Minsc likely perceives that as being serene and wise.

element

why has it got to be most useful?

I just pick up the people I like most of the time and it usually works out pretty balanced either with 3 and 3 or 2 and 4

atcDave

I don't really care about the issue, except that the fairly balanced way Bioware planned out the characters tends to result in a pretty balanced party. I guess I do care a little; ALL guys or ALL women sounds very boring to me.
It is funny though in IWD, I tend to design my party around related groups of friends and family that I have used in PNP. And that usually means a couple or two, which again means something like balance.

Coutelier

atcDave said:

I don't really care about the issue, except that the fairly balanced way Bioware planned out the characters tends to result in a pretty balanced party. I guess I do care a little; ALL guys or ALL women sounds very boring to me.
It is funny though in IWD, I tend to design my party around related groups of friends and family that I have used in PNP. And that usually means a couple or two, which again means something like balance.

In IWD I usually have themed parties. All characters from another video game or TV show or something like that. When I first played there was a Soul Calibur themed party, because I was into fighting games at the time... the swords in IWD just aren't big enough though.

KidCarnival

Necomancer said:

@KidCarnival I doubt it'd change his attitude much, except possibly giving him a bit more confidence in his ability to keep people alive. Either way Kivan is still dead, and he traveled with my CHARNAME for a long time before Irenecus decided to be a jerk. Still, something to think about and I do agree with you about the starting NPCs. I'm still hoping someday someone can make a mod for that. Heck, you wouldn't even need a different method for breaking Shar-Teel out. Have her bend the bars if you make her angry as well, though in her case she might still want to beat the hell out of you even after she escapes.

Yeah, Shar-Teel would fit in perfectly. With all returnees being slightly changed, she could even be dual classed to thief and take Imoen's place and pick your lock. Or turned into a barbarian, so she could actually rage to break out.
For a neutral NPC, it takes a bit more to fill the role, but Branwen could work. She's an outcast in her society because her people think women don't make good priests. You could have a dialogue option to provoke her, then she'd cast DUHM or something on herself and show you how suited she is to the path she chose by breaking the cage. Not by making her angry, more challenging to prove herself.

Dynaheir is a strong, proud person with a certain sense of entitlement. Aerie is a whiny child. I'm not sure how Minsc would conclude she's wise due to that, being used to Dynaheir's status in their homeland and her confidence.
Neera is a pure mage, why would anyone see her as a rogue? Nalia perhaps, with her Robin Hood thing, but Neera? She's clearly trying to find her way as a mage and she has much more confidence and ambition than Aerie when you meet her. If Minsc was looking for a new Dynaheir, personality and class-wise, Neera would be much closer.

Coutelier

KidCarnival said:

Dynaheir is a strong, proud person with a certain sense of entitlement. Aerie is a whiny child. I'm not sure how Minsc would conclude she's wise due to that, being used to Dynaheir's status in their homeland and her confidence.
Neera is a pure mage, why would anyone see her as a rogue? Nalia perhaps, with her Robin Hood thing, but Neera? She's clearly trying to find her way as a mage and she has much more confidence and ambition than Aerie when you meet her. If Minsc was looking for a new Dynaheir, personality and class-wise, Neera would be much closer.

Aerie has some trauma in her past, but she doesn't actually go around whining about it all the time. The PC is the only character she ever talks to about it. Neera has been caught stealing and admits to it; she would probably describe herself as being a little bit of a rogue. Aerie is trying to find her feet, so to speak; learn about the world and her place in it, and is determined to experience things and become better and stronger. That's what a dajemma is basically about for witches. It's Minsc's choice; if you don't take Aerie along, he just won't choose anyone as a new witch.

Silverstar

SCARY_WIZARD said:

ANOTHER SCARY_WIZARD PRODUCTION!

Run for your lives!



It depends really. If it's a build-your-own-party kind of deal like the Icewind Dales, Temple of Elemental Evil or Wizardry 8 then most of the party is female. Since I'm horrible at coming up with names and character concepts I recycle a few characters whose names, looks and classes I nailed down long ago. There's me (male) sorcerer, a female blonde priestess/paladin, a female black-haired assassin/thief and an elven female warrior. The rest of the party, if any, are fresh characters usually but the party setup tends to end up with mainly females.

If it's a game with NPC companions like the Baldur's Gates I pick whoever I like first, then filter by role (I need 1 thief, 1 healer, 1 fighter) and... well that's all my criteria really. I don't go by the whole alignment category party setup that seems to be the law or something judging by these forums, I really don't see why I should restrict myself that way.

ScotGaymer

@Coutelier

I really don't see how saying that Aerie is tied to Minsc in terms of story and roleplay is incorrect because It isn't wrong. It is factually true.

So I presume even though that was the part of my post you quote that it isn't the part that you mean.

In which case I also say I do not see how my personal opinion on the merits or lack thereof of Aerie can be wrong either. It's opinion. Generally speaking opinion is usually neither, as opinion really depends on a persons perspective, and mine is clearly different from yours.
And that's okay because the world would be boring if we all thought and felt the same way about the same things.

@KidCarnival

Thanks. :-)

I am just not a fan of Aerie, or any of the female romances really, (I have no idea if Neera's romance is as horrible as the vanilla romances - i'd hope not but I can't judge as I haven't experienced it yet) which is my personal opinion.
I get why she is the way she is, it just bothers me that thats ALL she is as a character and I dislike that. It's made worse by a truly creepy obsessive romance, though of the three female romance options I conceed that she is the most tolerable.

Jaheira's romance is just disturbing IMO. And Viconia's - well she is old enough to be CHARNAME's many times great grandmother, which is disturbing in of itself. Not that Viconia isn't an awesome character on her own.

Just not fond of the romance parts lol.

Heindrich

My ideal composition in a 6-man party would be 4 males and 2 females. (I always play male Charnames), but because I like quite a lot of the female NPCs, and Imoen is pretty much indispendisble, I actually end up with 50/50 parties.

First Playthrough 'core party'.
BG 1
Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc and Dynaheir.
BG 2
Imoen, Aerie, Anomen, Minsc and Jaheira.

Second (planned) playthrough core party.
BG 1
Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Neera and Kivan
BG 2
Imoen, Aerie, Anomen, Keldorn and Neera.

Coutelier

fitscotgaymer said:

@Coutelier

I really don't see how saying that Aerie is tied to Minsc in terms of story and roleplay is incorrect because It isn't wrong. It is factually true.

So I presume even though that was the part of my post you quote that it isn't the part that you mean.

In which case I also say I do not see how my personal opinion on the merits or lack thereof of Aerie can be wrong either. It's opinion. Generally speaking opinion is usually neither, as opinion really depends on a persons perspective, and mine is clearly different from yours.
And that's okay because the world would be boring if we all thought and felt the same way about the same things.

I was being slightly self-deprecating, since I expect many people would be expecting me to go ballistic for being mean about Aerie, which I never really do, although I don't think she does constantly whine about her wings and what not. None of the banters she starts with other NPC's are about her wings at all. In fact it's only Korgan and Viconia who tease her, and Jan and Mazzy bring it up with her and Aerie just mumbles or changes the subject. It seems to be the romance that's out of the ordinary for her; for whatever misguided reason, she seems to be believe is someone she can really, really trust.

But of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to disagree, provided it's civil.

shawne

fitscotgaymer said:

I really don't see how saying that Aerie is tied to Minsc in terms of story and roleplay is incorrect because It isn't wrong. It is factually true.

Well... not necessarily. Like so many things in BG, it's entirely situational: Aerie is only tied to Minsc if both Aerie and Minsc are in the party. If you take one and not the other, their storylines still unfold, just without the addition of that particular relationship.

KidCarnival

Thing is, Minsc has no quest and no romance. Both are things other NPCs have (one or both) and that add to their characters. You can do their quests regardless of romance. Minsc must have Aerie in the party to get that bit of character depth others get no matter who else in the party. Sure, some have extra dialogue with specific NPCs, but it's not like you won't get to learn about Anomen's backstory just because Keldorn as his mentor isn't present. It's simply limiting Minsc. If he had a quest, that wouldn't stand out. But he doesn't.
In mixed alignment parties, I prefer Anomen as cleric because his personality may start out awful, but develops more favorable and is well written. I really like the "lesson" that he has to overcome his pride to be a paladin because it defies the stereotype of the holier than thou perfect human being by default image many paladins buy into. It's a more interesting flaw than let's say, "he used to be a thief and now doesn't steal anymore because lawful". With Anomen, I already have divine spells covered, what I need is a mage. So I'd take Nalia or Neera and Minsc still gets no quest or anything of interest. Unless I drag around an NPC I don't need. If he could adopt any "witch", he'd be more appealing, just like Jan is appealing because he has many interactions with many different NPCs.

More on topic, @fitscotgaymer makes a good point why I sometimes avoid NPCs. I too dislike the romances and it's immersion breaking if everyone and their/my mother(figure) hits on charname. Most romances are female NPCs, so I'm less inclined to take them along in the first place. It's also a reason I'm not that fond of Dorn anymore in BG2. In BG1, it could easily be read as "bromance" or "battle buddies". In BG2, that's out of the question and he has no option to avoid it (like Viconia --> elf charname --> problem solved).
So it also depends on charname. If I play a male charname, my party tends to lean more toward male NPCs; a female charname may avoid the male romance options (though, Anomen's romance isn't so bad so far and I suspect Rasaad would be more "my type" than Dorn, so I'll probably try it out at some point).

If there was an option to disable romances from the start, that concern would go out of the window. Or if the NPCs had some sort of threshold, like seeing charname has 6 charisma and not start romance talks, it would also greatly help my immersion.