I hear you. Not crazy about Dorn (though I can work with him), and I never take Korgan for long. Though I want to have him and Mazzy in one party, for their apparently funny banter. Just play an evil charname who thinks it wiser to surround himself with neutral (or even good) characters because they are less likely to rob, betray, kill etc you while you're sleeping.
Long story short I *still* can't have a fun time playing an evil party in BGII! :DDDD
It's because you don't *need* them, they are tools, not a party, they are a set of different codes in a file with an extension almost unused outside this game, they are CRE files listed on a GAM file and scripted to perform actions make a single digit number bigger. And this is true.
Long story short I *still* can't have a fun time playing an evil party in BGII! :DDDD
It's because you don't *need* them, they are tools, not a party, they are a set of different codes in a file with an extension almost unused outside this game, they are CRE files listed on a GAM file and scripted to perform actions make a single digit number bigger. And this is true.
That's a little bit unfair. I can understand the desire to have a party of like minded individuals to traipse around the sword coast with. If you are a fluffy bunny Do-gooder type, you can do that just fine with Minsc, Aerie and Keldorn and Anomen and Mazzie (throw in Valgyar if you want). If you are a middle of the road neutral type, you can do it with Jaheira, Yoshimo/Imoen, Jan, Haer Daelis and Cernd (throw in Nalia if you like). In both scenarios, you could have equivalent alignments (personalities not withstanding) with NPCs to spare. With Evil, you never had the option as there aren't even 5 Evil characters. Till now.
for me, I don't "NEED" everyone to be Evil as personalities play a huge part of it all. But that doesn't mean I don't see the "Want" to play it based exclusively on alignment and the inherent disparity therein.
I liked Dorn's writing in BG1 a lot. His lines made sense with his personality - i.e. "we should rest, you look tired"; generally his mistrust mixed with some interesting surprises (considering to work for Kagain, refusing to fight Shar-Teel). In BG2, he's all but subtle. He's a hammer in your face that leaves an "OMG SO EEEEEEVIL!" imprint on your forehead. I don't like that at all. I also dislike that the only m/m romance option is what it is; no room for interpretation of the character or relationship, no alternatives. To be blunt, I don't like that Dorn is written like a fantasy counterpart to a flamboyant leather-clad biker daddy, which happens to be the opposite of my type. I don't like that the game gets a m/m romance after all these years and it's so bad, it comes out as still having none. I haven't played Hexxat's yet, but from what I've seen, I'm quite sure she isn't the fantasy version of a man-hating butch dyke. That alone already makes her lightyears better than how Dorn is written. It's quite disappointing how he devolved from BG1 to BG2.
Though I enjoyed the Rasaad romance and banters with him in general, there's a point in ToB where he's like, "So you don't mind all the chaos? And bloodshed?" and after having had him in my party all this time I just want to yell, "Have you MET me??"
I liked Dorn's writing in BG1 a lot. His lines made sense with his personality - i.e. "we should rest, you look tired"; generally his mistrust mixed with some interesting surprises (considering to work for Kagain, refusing to fight Shar-Teel). In BG2, he's all but subtle. He's a hammer in your face that leaves an "OMG SO EEEEEEVIL!" imprint on your forehead. I don't like that at all.
I don't think I've ever agreed with a comment more than I agreed with this one. BG1 Dorn=my favorite EE character BG2 Dorn=caricature His first dialogue sequence alone just makes me never want to take him. If any conversation needed more player options it was that one.
Yep, agree with kidcarnival and boo. After not having played the BG games for many years, I started off in BG1. Of course I wanted to check out the new NPCs. Neera was pretty annoying, but I stuck with her until I got Baeloth. Rasaad seems ok as an NPC, but low level monks just plain suck. I thought Dorn was actually pretty good. One or two awkward banters, but his quest seemed reasonable and he was a solid NPC.
Then I get to BG2 and want to keep my party the same as much as possible. So I look up where to get Dorn.. Really? You want to waltz into the most noble order of the radiant heart and kill everyone?
I haven't tried freeing him from his patron to see if it makes him less of a dick, because really, who wants a fallen blackguard? it's just a gimped fighter.
So Dork, who has made it all the way through BG1 and SoA will be getting kicked to the curb for Sarevok as soon as I hit ToB. I might even challenge him to a 1 on 1 with my F/M/C. Good luck hitting me through my PFMW/fireshields/stoneskin/blade barrier idiot.
One of the greatest moments of my crpg career was in the beginning of the Eye of The Beholder 2 : Temple of Darkmoon, where a paladin character rolled by me commented with obvious disgust about me desecrating the craves by digging them up in search for loot - something I´d really like Keldorn or Anomen to say whence in a Graveyard District tour, making my way in the tomb raider´s interest of finding the treasures and their undead guardians. A very similar place is in a Trademeet side quest, when either of the noble houses asks the party to recover an artifact of their ancestors - it just felt so wrong, when given a proper thought, to go on a merry rampage over the undead in pillaging the sacred grounds of their memento moris.
Regarding EoB2: My Dwarven Fighter, Stonebeard, had no such qualms, but it's little touches like that make me appreciate a game so much more, (and Darkmoon had more than a few of those). Baldur's Gate and its sequel were always so good at that, and that was such a major draw. I love that kind of immersion - it really works for me. Having said that, a Dorn rant follows: [Spoiler]As well as Dorn fit into BG1, and I really think he did, (a testament to his author), he stuck out like a sore thumb in BG2, in my opinion. I wasn't so much disappointed in Dorn's end as I was let down by how he ended. Perhaps my expectations were too high, but if anything, that is a testament to Dorn's potential as a character, created by his initial authors. From his BG1 persona, perceived through his dialogue, I came to see him as a tragic character. As it turned out, the real tragedy in Dorn's BG2 character turned out to be his dialogue. He deserved better. We deserved better. My apologies to his writer, but you didn't quite get it right. All in my layman's opinion, of course.[/Spoiler]
To add to what @Tarlugn said - Anomen and Keldorn should definitely object to pillaging graveyards, and I'd say that Aerie, Mazzy and possibly Viconia would also have respect for the dead and holy ground as clerics (and paladin-like fighter). Maybe not for every lich, but the Graveyard District and Trademeet crypt are just plain old graveyards where families bury their ancestors. I interpret the skeleton warriors as a security measure against graverobbers, not an undead infestation. Unlike the vampires, they don't leave the tombs, so they don't qualify as a threat to the living population in the city. An Undead Hunter may want to investigate every graveyard "just in case", but I picture Mazzy and Aerie as people who would say "let those folks rest in peace, we can find a Iol gem somewhere else".
An option, only accessible for chaotic neutral and evil characters, to tell Imoen (when you encounter her outside of candlekeep) that if she comes any closer you will cut her down. >:D
I wish you could end romances in a more polite/friendly way than basically something like: "I'm tired of your whining, wench! Leave me alone!"
Charname: "Look, Neera, I do like you, but I don't like-you-like-you. Can we still be friends?"
Neera: "Oh, sure Charname. Why didn't you just say so from the beginning? I wouldn't have wasted all those flirts on you!"
Charname: "Well, apparently all the dialogue choices just assumed that I wanted to bang you, and gave me all these stupid responses for turning you down. You would've been reeeaaally pissed."
I wish you could end romances in a more polite/friendly way than basically something like: "I'm tired of your whining, wench! Leave me alone!"
As long as I remember, there is polite option to end Aerie romance, but you have to endure several of her "oh my wings" dialogues before it finally appears. I could be mistaken though, it was a long time ago when I did her romance (with original NPC's it was/is (if not changed in EE) easier to temporarily kick them out or let them die and resurrect them to terminate romance).
I prefer to end the Aerie romance by accepting her "offer". Next morning when she has second thoughts I tell her I only strung her along for a piece of Avariel ass, then send her boo-hoo'ing back home to her dear uncle Quayle, sans virginity and with freshly fertilized eggs.
One dialog option I miss here is, "Bye-bye, Aerie! Say hello to Quayle for me, and please take good care of my son!"
The first dialogue with Bodhi when taking the Shadow Thieves route still makes me cringe to this day. Literally every line the PC is allowed to deliver makes him/her look naive, moronic or both.
I serious miss a sensible "I don't trust them but I'm left with no choice" and a "You're a freakin' vampire, I'm not gonna listen to a word you say" line of dialogue there.
I'd even go as far to say it's one of the worse pieces of writing in the vanilla game.
To be fair, I don't think you're suppose to know Bhodi is a vampire at that point.
Mind you, the option should still be there, if only because its the most blatantly obvious thing ever. Seriously Bhodi, you could have at least put some make up on.
Aran tells you Bodhi is a vampire before you do his final mission. And even if otherwise, you face of against about half a dozen vampires in her lair so I'm not sure what else you're supposed to think she is.
Yes, before his final mission. You meet her and talk to her before that, hence the whole "You're not suppose to know yet" deal. Though I agree with you its obvious and should have been changed, I don't think the devs wanted you to, as a character, know yet.
Its what a DnD player would call an example of bad DMing. Forcing ignorance on the players because the DM is miffed that hes not as clever as he'd like to think he is. Just like Mellisan. I HATE HER SO MUCH!
Oh. I mean when you encounter her in her lair, after staking Lassal. The other one I found at least somewhat reasonable, because you do get a "I trust you less than them" option.
Comments
Just play an evil charname who thinks it wiser to surround himself with neutral (or even good) characters because they are less likely to rob, betray, kill etc you while you're sleeping.
for me, I don't "NEED" everyone to be Evil as personalities play a huge part of it all. But that doesn't mean I don't see the "Want" to play it based exclusively on alignment and the inherent disparity therein.
I also dislike that the only m/m romance option is what it is; no room for interpretation of the character or relationship, no alternatives. To be blunt, I don't like that Dorn is written like a fantasy counterpart to a flamboyant leather-clad biker daddy, which happens to be the opposite of my type. I don't like that the game gets a m/m romance after all these years and it's so bad, it comes out as still having none. I haven't played Hexxat's yet, but from what I've seen, I'm quite sure she isn't the fantasy version of a man-hating butch dyke. That alone already makes her lightyears better than how Dorn is written. It's quite disappointing how he devolved from BG1 to BG2.
"We shall rest here. You look tired"
"If anyone crosses me, they die."
"It is good to hear that, but you must be wary nonetheless."
"Death awaits all who cross me."
"A good attitude, though I would advise caution. Those who betray you may not be so foolish."
"Cross me and die."
"Good, but"
"ugh"
"buhhh"
or: "Why is your hat yellow?"
BG1 Dorn=my favorite EE character
BG2 Dorn=caricature
His first dialogue sequence alone just makes me never want to take him. If any conversation needed more player options it was that one.
Then I get to BG2 and want to keep my party the same as much as possible. So I look up where to get Dorn..
Really? You want to waltz into the most noble order of the radiant heart and kill everyone?
I haven't tried freeing him from his patron to see if it makes him less of a dick, because really, who wants a fallen blackguard? it's just a gimped fighter.
So Dork, who has made it all the way through BG1 and SoA will be getting kicked to the curb for Sarevok as soon as I hit ToB. I might even challenge him to a 1 on 1 with my F/M/C. Good luck hitting me through my PFMW/fireshields/stoneskin/blade barrier idiot.
Baldur's Gate and its sequel were always so good at that, and that was such a major draw. I love that kind of immersion - it really works for me.
Having said that, a Dorn rant follows:
[Spoiler]As well as Dorn fit into BG1, and I really think he did, (a testament to his author), he stuck out like a sore thumb in BG2, in my opinion. I wasn't so much disappointed in Dorn's end as I was let down by how he ended.
Perhaps my expectations were too high, but if anything, that is a testament to Dorn's potential as a character, created by his initial authors. From his BG1 persona, perceived through his dialogue, I came to see him as a tragic character.
As it turned out, the real tragedy in Dorn's BG2 character turned out to be his dialogue.
He deserved better. We deserved better.
My apologies to his writer, but you didn't quite get it right. All in my layman's opinion, of course.[/Spoiler]
"I'm tired of your whining, wench! Leave me alone!"
Neera: "Oh, sure Charname. Why didn't you just say so from the beginning? I wouldn't have wasted all those flirts on you!"
Charname: "Well, apparently all the dialogue choices just assumed that I wanted to bang you, and gave me all these stupid responses for turning you down. You would've been reeeaaally pissed."
One dialog option I miss here is, "Bye-bye, Aerie! Say hello to Quayle for me, and please take good care of my son!"
;-)
I serious miss a sensible "I don't trust them but I'm left with no choice" and a "You're a freakin' vampire, I'm not gonna listen to a word you say" line of dialogue there.
I'd even go as far to say it's one of the worse pieces of writing in the vanilla game.
Mind you, the option should still be there, if only because its the most blatantly obvious thing ever. Seriously Bhodi, you could have at least put some make up on.
Its what a DnD player would call an example of bad DMing. Forcing ignorance on the players because the DM is miffed that hes not as clever as he'd like to think he is. Just like Mellisan. I HATE HER SO MUCH!
Granted Melissan is horrible writing too.