Something where you got certain items in certain equipment slots (representing augmented limbs, etc.) could work. Instead of using conventional magic items, you could say, equip Minotaur or Dragon Horns in your helmet slot, replace your feet with a Werewolf's, etc. Weapons are various creatures "natural" weapons, although you could augment them with magic (the most gruesome arcane crafting component ever!)
Obviously you would have massive penalties to Charisma, and the only way to remove these items would be to destroy them permanently and equip new ones.
We could also make use of the required level of items to prevent a character from equipping items "too powerful" for them.
It would be very Planescape-y I think (the Intestines bracelet and the various Eyes come to mind...) so I'm absolutely down for this.
Why bother with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength when you could have Ogre Arms of Ogre Strength?
I like the idea! We're missing a mad scientist character and could make for greatly playing a good character with low reputation.
Maybe this is too much of a penalty but maybe each time you equip a monsterous item you lose 1 reputation? Maybe that's too much but I feel like if you're going to be walking around as a crazy monstrosity with a dragon head, werewolf claws, a naga tail, and cat legs then people should react poorly to you XD
The numerous penalties that such a kit would have could all be discussed. Reputation might be a good penalty, but it would be difficult to balance it, especially given that reputation's primary use is discounts and party member happiness.
Given that most of the features require thematic mutilation of corpses, I doubt most Good-aligned characters would find such a life morally acceptable. (Then again, there are the Bandit Scalps in BG:EE...) It would probably make sense to restrict alignment to Neutral and Evil characters...
I love where this discussion is heading! If such a Grafter kit would indeed work like the Namelesss One, then it would be even more epic than I first thought. I say go for it!
But how exactly would such a kit "acquire" the monstrous body parts in question? Would they harvest them from dead bodies? Craft them on their own? Or buy them in shops like in Planescape: Torment?
Also, I believe the kit's main penalties could stem from the grafts themselves in question: - Reputation loss could be considered for easily visible, fiendish grafts (skin, tongue, ect). - Undead grafts could invoke either a sickening effect on the user. Or perhaps a vulnerability to healing magic and diseases (it IS dead flesh after all). - Grafts from large monstrous humanoids, giants and dragons could bring a penalty to movement rate due to their sheer size and weight. - Fey and lycanthrope grafts could invoke allergic reactions to jewelry and other equipment with precious metals, making them either inable to wear them, or only with some kind of annoying penalty.
Grafting sounds great, but the penalty's should not be to high or the Items very powerful. Because if you have to much drawbacks, than normal magic items become the better choice.
Is it possible to create new equipment slots? That would help very much with the Grafter. (Like Eyes, Limbs etc.) Or will they just replace equipment -> like Hands go were Gauntlets are etc. I agree that good characters do not really qualify for this Kit.
How will you acquire new Grafts -> Self Dialog (you see the Dead body of a Demon, what would you like to harvest etc...) or just as items in Demons & co that only the Grafter can use?
It sounds like the Kit would be a lot of work.
Alternative idea: Maybe something like an Alchemist that uses permanent potions and remedy for permanent effects and changes. For Example: Permanent Potion of Fire Breath -> Use Fire Breath x times per day Permanent Potion of Regeneration Potion of Shapechange / Partial Shapechange -> Transform you hands in to claws etc.
I was planning on using the existing item slots, but making them thematically different for example, the gloves slot might be for arms, ring slots for hands, etc.
I was thinking of having a "corpse" item on eligible creatures that a character could take to a rather unscrupulous tanner in a certain city (or a new but equally unsavory character) that could then get various body parts from the corpse. (i.e. "Here is this otyugh corpse. I'll take two Otyugh Tentacle specials please.") At higher levels, the character could learn to do this themselves (through an innate).
Your idea for an alchemist with similar type of customization also sounds interesting.
Something where you got certain items in certain equipment slots (representing augmented limbs, etc.) could work. Instead of using conventional magic items, you could say, equip Minotaur or Dragon Horns in your helmet slot, replace your feet with a Werewolf's, etc. Weapons are various creatures "natural" weapons, although you could augment them with magic (the most gruesome arcane crafting component ever!)
Obviously you would have massive penalties to Charisma, and the only way to remove these items would be to destroy them permanently and equip new ones.
We could also make use of the required level of items to prevent a character from equipping items "too powerful" for them.
It would be very Planescape-y I think (the Intestines bracelet and the various Eyes come to mind...) so I'm absolutely down for this.
Why bother with Gauntlets of Ogre Strength when you could have Ogre Arms of Ogre Strength?
Very cool idea...should we go so far as to have creatures "drop"these parts which this necro can then graft?...
Edit: looks like I'm behind...a lot of God ideas there...
Okay, so maybe instead of having monsters dropping their guts, the character would have a special "harvesting" which initiates dialog, that gives options(ie body parts) based on the detection of certain creatures'corpses (?) I like it. We can prevent it from being usable in combat, and, given that such creatures are generally hostile, we should be able to prevent harvesting of living creatures...one concern is in bg2, some non hostile mind flayers (when captured), drow, and other creatures in the underdark
I wouldn't know about feasibility until I sat down for a day and tried to get it to work... This is not likely going to happen at any point in the immediate (or even near) future. Suggestions for new content and discussions about new features are always welcome, even if I don't have the time to actually code them now.
Maybe mix the Alchemist and the Grafter -> Harvest material for the special/permanent potions and also make mixtures to prepare a Graft (Tentacle, Claw etc.) for implantation. Maybe you can also make symbionts that attach to the body, but can be changed later in the game or something like it.
Maybe mix the Alchemist and the Grafter -> Harvest material for the special/permanent potions and also make mixtures to prepare a Graft (Tentacle, Claw etc.) for implantation. Maybe you can also make symbionts that attach to the body, but can be changed later in the game or something like it.
This might be a good idea fur later implementation. I am interested in doing an optional component that utilizes "special" components to create items, and I will create variant item related crafter kits at that time.
The delay will also allow me to incorporate it into any already existing system
Hi, this may have been covered before as I haven't read all the pages of this thread yet, but are there any plans of adding the Death (Bhaal/Jergal) portfolio to any of the sub-kits? It always bugged me (just a personal peeve I'm sure) playing someone that was infused with part of a Death deity, but worshipping Helm, or Lathander, or etc just never sat right with me .I like how your kits open up as 'You are getting this whether you want it or not.', I just wish they had a bit broader range of Gods/Archetypes to choose from.
Dragon Magazine had some information on the Bhaalspawn that may be good for cherry-picking some ideas from, but with the good backbones you have in this mod with the Oracle and Magus, it seems like you could make a really flexible Bhaalspawn/Scion of Murder type kit that could cover a bunch of different RP playstyles in the game since it's less a contract with him, and more a bloodline.
Just some ideas from the different Dragon articles (not cut and pasted, just general ideas) to mull over:
[Spoiler] Bonuses: *Portfolio spells: Would really be up to you here, but seems to be a good mix of offensive and defensive spells that tend to bring up ideas of magical killers. Things like Darkness, Cure/Cause Wound spells, Fear, Hold Person, Strength, Invisibility, etc...
*Patron of Assassins: Gains a bonus versus Save vs Death and Poison.
*Weapon specialization: Daggers, short swords, long swords, single weapon style.
*Poisoned Blood: Capable of coating weapons with a little bit of the Bhaalspawns own blood, dealing slight extra poison damage.
Penalties: *Nightmares: Random effect after sleep if you fail a saving throw. a) -2 to Morale for the day, b) -1 to saves for the day. c) Lesser healing during the rest. d) No bad effects.
*Reckless: Penalty to THACO and AC when under 50% HP.
*Tainted: Counts as evil no matter true alignment by all spells & effects.
*Embodiment of Murder: Any non-lawful. (I'm not too sure how well the games and PnP kept to this though, although it seems LG just doesn't mesh for them.)
So looking at your other Oracle kits, my suggestion would be something like:
ORACLE OF DEATH
* Gains Spell 1, Spell 2, and Spell 3 as bonus spells. (Your call to what feels right) * May be proficient (+) or specialized (++) in daggers, short swords, and long swords. (Your call to balance) * Save bonus towards Death and Poisons. * Melee attacks deal D4 (or whatever) extra poison damage. * Tainted: Counts as evil no matter true alignment by all spells & effects. * Reckless: Penalty to THACO and AC when under 50% HP. * Alignment restricted to any non-Lawful Good.
@Mykra, I can definitely include an Oracle of [Bhaal] in the next patch. Thank you for fleshing out the idea so much; it is always nice (and much faster) when someone comes with a fully fleshed out kit idea.
@Darkersun, the reason that Oracles are not in BG:EE yet is due to the spell selection dialogue's reliance on a new trigger that is in BG2EE and IWDEE but is not yet in BGEE. The next round of patches to the games should fix this; I am also investigating alternative methods.
I had an idea! Sorry to bombard you with class ideas and such >_> <_<
Anyway, we should totally have a Blood Mage! Thought about it after thinking about the Bhaal's poison blood ability-thing.
Like, have an innate ability similar to the Wild Mage spell, Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. When used it could bring up a spell list and then depending on the spell level it would be like, 10 hp for a first level spell, 20 for a 2nd, etc.
Either that or make it so you can casts spells that cost health for an increased caster level.
Didn't the Blood Mage PrC in 3.5th edition had some sort of ability to travel through the pulsing blood of their enemies? Something like teleportation which also deal quite a bit of nasty damage to the enemy. Not sure how this could be done in BG, but the prestige class theme in itself is interesting.
The Cancer Mage PrC from the 3.5th edition sourcebook Book of Vile Darkness may another worthy addition to this mod. In a very particular disgusting way of worthy, I mean. Being disease ridden, poison using, virus hosting, vermin loving, arcane spellcaster avatars of rot and all that bile.
Indeed they did! I imagine such a thing might be too hard to implement though so I just put the extra spells for blood mages by sacrificing HP (Dragon Age-inspired) or sacrifice health to increase caster level (Inspired by the Cruoromancer Dhamphir Wizard Archetype from Pathfinder's Adanced Race Guide).
@Mykra, I can definitely include an Oracle of [Bhaal] in the next patch. Thank you for fleshing out the idea so much; it is always nice (and much faster) when someone comes with a fully fleshed out kit idea.
Fantastic, I look forward to seeing what you come up with! The only downside I found in finding the Bhaalish materials is that they all came off as 'Well, you are an Assassin...with spells!'. The drawbacks seem interesting and fresh, but a lot of the bonuses seem like you could come up with something better than coating a weapon with blood.
I have another one if you are interested.
[Spoiler]
Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep (Normally open to all spellcasters, but probably best to just be a Mage specialization to prevent a glut.)
Bonuses: *Spell Knowledge: Gains a bonus of X/Y to saves vs magic at levels X/Y
*Quicken Spell: Casting Times reduced by X/Y at levels X/Y.
*Metamagic: Gains a bonus to magical damage of X/Y at levels X/Y. (The Arcane Scholars big thing were the ability to empower spells to do more damage. It would probably be easier to just give a damage bonus instead of creating new empowered versions of spells that required high level spell unlocks.)
*The Weave is All: Is a specialized Mage but has no opposing schools. Does not gain the normal extra spell per spell level of a specialized caster but instead gains as innate powers: One casting of Identify at Level X, one casting of Vocalize at Level X, and one casting of Secret Word at Level X. (Can be tweaked however you like, but seems like they would lean more towards knowledge spells or defensive spells).
*Magical Scholar: Increased Lore per level up, and no weapon proficiencies gained past the one gained at level one. (Would say none at all, but that could wreck other mods like wizard staves, or peoples character concepts.)
*Studious upbringing: CON penalty of -4 at character creation (preventing any bonus HP on the character). May not use the armored casting part of your mod.
*Disciplined learning: No dual classing allowed, no Chaotic alignments.
I think a good disadvantage for the Scion would be: "Only wears light armor" that would go well with the Assassin style.
here is my idea of the ORACLE OF DEATH (inspired by the scion and the other Oracle).
So to be in line with the other Oracles: May become specialized (++) in daggers and Short swords. Gains Invisibility (2) and Improved Invisibility (4) as bonus spells. Gains the ability to backstab (Stalker Progression). Gains the ability to poison weapon (like assassin, but maybe that is to much) . (alternative idea: Melee attacks deal +d2 poison or bleeding damage). Alignment restricted to all Chaotic. May only wear light armor.
Thrown together kit description based on the ones listed above.
ORACLE OF MURDER - May become specialized (++) in Daggers. - May cast spells while wearing Leather and Studded Leather armor and while using Bucklers and Small Shields. - Gains Invisibility (2), Improved Invisibility (4) and Slay Living (5) as bonus spells. - May backstab at a x2 multiplier. (x3 at 9th, x4 at 17th). - Melee attacks deal +d4 poison damage. - Alignment restricted to any chaotic or any evil.
Also, Oracles are a fun (albeit tangential) part of this mod, so if you have an deity requests for new Oracles, please comment them and I'll see what I can do.
I need to do a playthrough with that kit. It seems perfect as a class for a 'no training' bhaalspawn. As in your powers are thrust upon you. Natural ability and your very blood is poison!
If the bhaalspawn was a pre-set character I feel that is the kit they would have.
Personally, I always was fascinated with the Cult of the Eyeless in BGII. Funny thing is there even exist a cleric of the Great Mother prestige class under the name of Ocular Adept in D&D, which could seamlessly fit into BGII's Beholder questline.
How about something like...
ORACLE OF EYES - May become proficient (+) in Spears, Staffs, Slings, Clubs and Daggers. - May cast spells while wearing Robes, Leather and Studded Leather armor, but no shields. - Gains Charm Person, Sleep, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Slow, Charm Monster, Flesh to Stone, Disintegrate and Finger of Death as spell-like abilites at the appropriate level. - Becomes immune to blindness and sees through invisibility. - May not wear Helmets or any other equipment in the Head slot. - Alignment restricted to Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil.
Thrown together kit description based on the ones listed above.
ORACLE OF MURDER - May become specialized (++) in Daggers. - May cast spells while wearing Leather and Studded Leather armor and while using Bucklers and Small Shields. - Gains Invisibility (2), Improved Invisibility (4) and Slay Living (5) as bonus spells. - May backstab at a x2 multiplier. (x3 at 9th, x4 at 17th). - Melee attacks deal +d4 poison damage. - Alignment restricted to any chaotic or any evil.
I like Darker's idea of it being bleeding damage instead of poison damage, like the Corthala Family Blade. It kind of makes me think of tying in with the blood of the Bhaalspawn, and less Assassin weapon coating.
I just checked the game files; technically speaking, the damage type of the Corthala Blade "bleeding" damage is poison. Cosmetically I could call it "bleeding" damage but it is still poison.
I just realized something. How would our Bhaal priest oracle guy use stealth? Isn't the UI bound to each class? Would the class have to rely on invisibility in order to gain backstabs?
Comments
You're asking for my opinion? I'm honored!
I like the idea! We're missing a mad scientist character and could make for greatly playing a good character with low reputation.
Maybe this is too much of a penalty but maybe each time you equip a monsterous item you lose 1 reputation? Maybe that's too much but I feel like if you're going to be walking around as a crazy monstrosity with a dragon head, werewolf claws, a naga tail, and cat legs then people should react poorly to you XD
Given that most of the features require thematic mutilation of corpses, I doubt most Good-aligned characters would find such a life morally acceptable. (Then again, there are the Bandit Scalps in BG:EE...) It would probably make sense to restrict alignment to Neutral and Evil characters...
But how exactly would such a kit "acquire" the monstrous body parts in question? Would they harvest them from dead bodies? Craft them on their own? Or buy them in shops like in Planescape: Torment?
Also, I believe the kit's main penalties could stem from the grafts themselves in question:
- Reputation loss could be considered for easily visible, fiendish grafts (skin, tongue, ect).
- Undead grafts could invoke either a sickening effect on the user. Or perhaps a vulnerability to healing magic and diseases (it IS dead flesh after all).
- Grafts from large monstrous humanoids, giants and dragons could bring a penalty to movement rate due to their sheer size and weight.
- Fey and lycanthrope grafts could invoke allergic reactions to jewelry and other equipment with precious metals, making them either inable to wear them, or only with some kind of annoying penalty.
Is it possible to create new equipment slots? That would help very much with the Grafter.
(Like Eyes, Limbs etc.) Or will they just replace equipment -> like Hands go were Gauntlets are etc.
I agree that good characters do not really qualify for this Kit.
How will you acquire new Grafts -> Self Dialog (you see the Dead body of a Demon, what would you like to harvest etc...) or just as items in Demons & co that only the Grafter can use?
It sounds like the Kit would be a lot of work.
Alternative idea:
Maybe something like an Alchemist that uses permanent potions and remedy for permanent effects and changes.
For Example:
Permanent Potion of Fire Breath -> Use Fire Breath x times per day
Permanent Potion of Regeneration
Potion of Shapechange / Partial Shapechange -> Transform you hands in to claws
etc.
I was thinking of having a "corpse" item on eligible creatures that a character could take to a rather unscrupulous tanner in a certain city (or a new but equally unsavory character) that could then get various body parts from the corpse. (i.e. "Here is this otyugh corpse. I'll take two Otyugh Tentacle specials please.") At higher levels, the character could learn to do this themselves (through an innate).
Your idea for an alchemist with similar type of customization also sounds interesting.
Edit: looks like I'm behind...a lot of God ideas there...
Okay, so maybe instead of having monsters dropping their guts, the character would have a special "harvesting" which initiates dialog, that gives options(ie body parts) based on the detection of certain creatures'corpses (?) I like it. We can prevent it from being usable in combat, and, given that such creatures are generally hostile, we should be able to prevent harvesting of living creatures...one concern is in bg2, some non hostile mind flayers (when captured), drow, and other creatures in the underdark
@Aquadrizzt do you think it's feasible?
The delay will also allow me to incorporate it into any already existing system
Dragon Magazine had some information on the Bhaalspawn that may be good for cherry-picking some ideas from, but with the good backbones you have in this mod with the Oracle and Magus, it seems like you could make a really flexible Bhaalspawn/Scion of Murder type kit that could cover a bunch of different RP playstyles in the game since it's less a contract with him, and more a bloodline.
Just some ideas from the different Dragon articles (not cut and pasted, just general ideas) to mull over:
[Spoiler]
Bonuses:
*Portfolio spells: Would really be up to you here, but seems to be a good mix of offensive and defensive spells that tend to bring up ideas of magical killers. Things like Darkness, Cure/Cause Wound spells, Fear, Hold Person, Strength, Invisibility, etc...
*Patron of Assassins: Gains a bonus versus Save vs Death and Poison.
*Weapon specialization: Daggers, short swords, long swords, single weapon style.
*Poisoned Blood: Capable of coating weapons with a little bit of the Bhaalspawns own blood, dealing slight extra poison damage.
Penalties:
*Nightmares: Random effect after sleep if you fail a saving throw. a) -2 to Morale for the day, b) -1 to saves for the day. c) Lesser healing during the rest. d) No bad effects.
*Reckless: Penalty to THACO and AC when under 50% HP.
*Tainted: Counts as evil no matter true alignment by all spells & effects.
*Embodiment of Murder: Any non-lawful. (I'm not too sure how well the games and PnP kept to this though, although it seems LG just doesn't mesh for them.)
So looking at your other Oracle kits, my suggestion would be something like:
ORACLE OF DEATH
* Gains Spell 1, Spell 2, and Spell 3 as bonus spells. (Your call to what feels right)
* May be proficient (+) or specialized (++) in daggers, short swords, and long swords. (Your call to balance)
* Save bonus towards Death and Poisons.
* Melee attacks deal D4 (or whatever) extra poison damage.
* Tainted: Counts as evil no matter true alignment by all spells & effects.
* Reckless: Penalty to THACO and AC when under 50% HP.
* Alignment restricted to any non-Lawful Good.
[/spoiler]
Anyways, just rough ideas if interested.
(http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/11927/new-kit-scion-of-murder-looking-for-suggestions-feedback/p1)
Also any chance to get Orcale's in BG1:EE ?
@Darkersun, the reason that Oracles are not in BG:EE yet is due to the spell selection dialogue's reliance on a new trigger that is in BG2EE and IWDEE but is not yet in BGEE. The next round of patches to the games should fix this; I am also investigating alternative methods.
Anyway, we should totally have a Blood Mage! Thought about it after thinking about the Bhaal's poison blood ability-thing.
Like, have an innate ability similar to the Wild Mage spell, Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. When used it could bring up a spell list and then depending on the spell level it would be like, 10 hp for a first level spell, 20 for a 2nd, etc.
Either that or make it so you can casts spells that cost health for an increased caster level.
Idk if that's possible but blood mages are cool
The Cancer Mage PrC from the 3.5th edition sourcebook Book of Vile Darkness may another worthy addition to this mod. In a very particular disgusting way of worthy, I mean. Being disease ridden, poison using, virus hosting, vermin loving, arcane spellcaster avatars of rot and all that bile.
Then again, I always disliked how kits in all the Infinity games seemed to be 'It's like Class A, but so much better!'.
here is my idea of the ORACLE OF DEATH (inspired by the scion and the other Oracle).
So to be in line with the other Oracles:
May become specialized (++) in daggers and Short swords.
Gains Invisibility (2) and Improved Invisibility (4) as bonus spells.
Gains the ability to backstab (Stalker Progression).
Gains the ability to poison weapon (like assassin, but maybe that is to much) .
(alternative idea: Melee attacks deal +d2 poison or bleeding damage).
Alignment restricted to all Chaotic.
May only wear light armor.
The rest is like the basic Oracle:
Be like an assassin cult or whatever. Super flavorful!
ORACLE OF MURDER
- May become specialized (++) in Daggers.
- May cast spells while wearing Leather and Studded Leather armor and while using Bucklers and Small Shields.
- Gains Invisibility (2), Improved Invisibility (4) and Slay Living (5) as bonus spells.
- May backstab at a x2 multiplier. (x3 at 9th, x4 at 17th).
- Melee attacks deal +d4 poison damage.
- Alignment restricted to any chaotic or any evil.
If the bhaalspawn was a pre-set character I feel that is the kit they would have.
How about something like...
ORACLE OF EYES
- May become proficient (+) in Spears, Staffs, Slings, Clubs and Daggers.
- May cast spells while wearing Robes, Leather and Studded Leather armor, but no shields.
- Gains Charm Person, Sleep, Inflict Moderate Wounds, Slow, Charm Monster, Flesh to Stone, Disintegrate and Finger of Death as spell-like abilites at the appropriate level.
- Becomes immune to blindness and sees through invisibility.
- May not wear Helmets or any other equipment in the Head slot.
- Alignment restricted to Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil.
I still like the idea of Bhaalspawn's very blood being poison. I'd be up for whatever you guys want though
How would our Bhaal priest oracle guy use stealth? Isn't the UI bound to each class? Would the class have to rely on invisibility in order to gain backstabs?