I hate The Wave since it always blocks my line of sight during sporting events...
Honestly, from what is said here it is pretty powerful. People like to dual wield, but not all characters have the necessary pips. Take Dorn for example. Two handed style would help him in his other chosen weapon as well. Or a bard who cannot put 3 pips into 2 weapon style.
Also 15 percent chance to do FIFTEEN extra damage? That is hefty.
For example: Deathbringer Assault on Sarevok. He usually wields a two hander and this ability gives him a 3% chance of occurring and doing 200! piercing damage. Pretty massive right?
Well lets look at The Wave. The chance of it doing the additional damage is 5 times better. So 5x15=75 damage.
The ability of this weapon doesn't match Deathbringer Assault, obviously, but that damage on top of the normal 1d10+4 is pretty hard to reproduce with other weapons. Once you get your improved hastes and your whirlwind attacks, you will get more attacks, that while still attacking slightly less than a dual wielded speed weapon character, gives you a more opportunities to *get* the extra 15 damage.
Now imagine Sarevok with GM in halberds using The Wave. One in every five hits all of the sudden does a massive amount of damage.
Considering only SOA and early levels of WK (levels 1-2) Damage-wise (including +1 bonus for 2H weapons) Impaler : 17.5 The wave : 12.75 Carsomyr : 12.5. Spear of withering 12.5 Warblade 11.5 Soul reaver 10.5 FOA 10.5. Crom Faeyr 10.5. Usuno's Blade 9.6. Celestial fury 9.5. blackblood 9.5. Silver sword 9.5
I consider the following weapons better choices than the wave, even without considering shieldsor dual wielding for 2H weapons
- Impaler has way more damage and is available earlier - Carsomyr has way better bonus and is available at the same time (considering killing firkgraag after underdark) or earlier - Silver sword has less damage but much better effect. Available at the same time - FOA provides spell disruption, slow effect, available earlier - Celestial fury for stun effect, available earlier - Crom faeyr for 25 strength. better situationnal bonus, available at the same time
So really, whatever way you think of it, the wave is a rather poor choice, at least for powergaming purpose.
I hate The Wave since it always blocks my line of sight during sporting events...
Honestly, from what is said here it is pretty powerful. People like to dual wield, but not all characters have the necessary pips. Take Dorn for example. Two handed style would help him in his other chosen weapon as well. Or a bard who cannot put 3 pips into 2 weapon style.
Also 15 percent chance to do FIFTEEN extra damage? That is hefty.
For example: Deathbringer Assault on Sarevok. He usually wields a two hander and this ability gives him a 3% chance of occurring and doing 200! piercing damage. Pretty massive right?
Well lets look at The Wave. The chance of it doing the additional damage is 5 times better. So 5x15=75 damage.
The ability of this weapon doesn't match Deathbringer Assault, obviously, but that damage on top of the normal 1d10+4 is pretty hard to reproduce with other weapons. Once you get your improved hastes and your whirlwind attacks, you will get more attacks, that while still attacking slightly less than a dual wielded speed weapon character, gives you a more opportunities to *get* the extra 15 damage.
Now imagine Sarevok with GM in halberds using The Wave. One in every five hits all of the sudden does a massive amount of damage.
To use work jacobtan already demonstrated (and assuming we are talking about random and not quasi-random) the chance of you not getting the 15 cold damage in any of the 5 consecutive hits is 44.4%. So you have a 55.6% chance of getting at least one of those extra 15 cold damage.
Likewise the chance of Sarevok not getting his deathbringer assault (at least the damage portion) after 5 hits is 85.9%. The difference being deathbringer assault makes a much more substancial difference when it hits (ohh and for the record it does slashing damage not piercing damage).
Either way just because you have a listed 3% chance of doing one thing and a 15% chance of doing another, doesn't mean you actually have an 18% chance of doing one of the two. There is a very good chance of you seeing no extra damage in those 5 hits.
Actually the extra damage for the Wave is quite easy to reproduce with other weapons because as has already been shown your chances of getting the Wave's bonus damage at least once in 7 hits is 68%. At 10 hits its 80.3%.
However, the Impaler does on average of 16.5 damage vs the average of 9.5 damage with the Wave (when its bonus isn't considered). After 10 hits the impaler would do an average of 165 damage and the Wave would do an average of 95 damage. The Wave does have the benefit of a 5% better chance of hitting (due to its greater Thac0 bonus), but you'd still need to get a lot of those +15 cold damage hits for it to make up for its lack of physical damage.
I mean its not terrible or anything but even amongst two handed weapons there are more damaging, more useful, and/or more easily acquired options.
I think I used it for the first time recently on Sarevok before picking up the ravager. That thing is god-like in the fire giant mountains. It even kills that elemental prince in one shot I'm pretty sure. That is all.
Other two-handed weapons are just better than the Wave, but I just can't overlook its usefulness in Yaga-Shura's lair so I store it in my Bag of Holding. Improved Haste Dorn or Sarevok and send them in alone to one-shot those fire salamanders, fire elementals, burning men, noble fire salamanders... Hell, it even one-shots Imix, the Elemental Prince of Fire!
The thing is that yaga shura lair is not a hard portion of the game. It's just brute meleeing. Use a few mordy sword to tank for you and all that area is trivially easy anyway.
Considering only SOA and early levels of WK (levels 1-2) Damage-wise (including +1 bonus for 2H weapons) Impaler : 17.5 The wave : 12.75 Carsomyr : 12.5. Spear of withering 12.5 Warblade 11.5 Soul reaver 10.5 FOA 10.5. Crom Faeyr 10.5. Usuno's Blade 9.6. Celestial fury 9.5. blackblood 9.5. Silver sword 9.5
I consider the following weapons better choices than the wave, even without considering shieldsor dual wielding for 2H weapons
- Impaler has way more damage and is available earlier - Carsomyr has way better bonus and is available at the same time (considering killing firkgraag after underdark) or earlier - Silver sword has less damage but much better effect. Available at the same time - FOA provides spell disruption, slow effect, available earlier - Celestial fury for stun effect, available earlier - Crom faeyr for 25 strength. better situationnal bonus, available at the same time
So really, whatever way you think of it, the wave is a rather poor choice, at least for powergaming purpose.
I already mentioned SoA, so no watcher's keep here or you'll be able to find much more powerful weapons there than anywhere else in SoA.
- Impaler is a +3 spear, who picks grand master spear for that one spear? It's a niché weapon because of it's +10 damage which can be completely negated if you're fighting a golem. People really need to stop raising this spear to the heavens, it really isn't that good. It's not in anyway a bad weapon, but there are much better ones out there (FoA, Carsomyr).
- Carsomyr is paladin only.
- Silver Sword deals less damage and is only +3. It has a nice to hit effect, but i'll pick the wave over it. More damage on the wave, just no chances to get vorpal hits.
- FoA is the best weapon in the game, nothing will beat it except perhaps the ravager.
- Celestial fury is a +3 weapon and it also has a chance effect. It's a very powerful weapon and i'll admit to this, but it's a one hander and sadly only +3 so you won't be able to use it when you get to ToB and for fights like kangaxx.
- Crom Fayer requires you to sacrifice all your strength items and it's a one hander.
If you read my post i said that the wave was the second best TWO handed weapon. This is my opinion and i'll pick it over the impaler anyday, Carsomyr is still the top dog.
The thing is that yaga shura lair is not a hard portion of the game. It's just brute meleeing. Use a few mordy sword to tank for you and all that area is trivially easy anyway.
With this logic any fight in the game is easy.
"Use a few mordy"
With preparations and knowledge like this the game is incredible easy.
Mind flayers? Use 5 hasted skeletal warriors.
Umber hulks? Use cloud kill.
Anything else? Use a naked mage and he'll do it all alone and still not lose any health.
- Impaler is a +3 spear, who picks grand master spear for that one spear? It's a niché weapon because of it's +10 damage which can be completely negated if you're fighting a golem. People really need to stop raising this spear to the heavens, it really isn't that good. It's not in anyway a bad weapon, but there are much better ones out there (FoA, Carsomyr).
The same argument could be used against the Wave. It does piercing and cold damage. The vast majority of golems in the game are immune to cold damage. There are only a few that don't and all those that are are pretty rare encounters (like the juggernaut golem). Stone golems are another example of a golem with no cold resistance, but they also have no physical damage resistances of any kind (just weapon enchantment immunities).
- Impaler is a +3 spear, who picks grand master spear for that one spear? It's a niché weapon because of it's +10 damage which can be completely negated if you're fighting a golem. People really need to stop raising this spear to the heavens, it really isn't that good. It's not in anyway a bad weapon, but there are much better ones out there (FoA, Carsomyr).
The same argument could be used against the Wave. It does piercing and cold damage. The vast majority of golems in the game are immune to cold damage. There are only a few that don't and all those that are are pretty rare encounters (like the juggernaut golem). Stone golems are another example of a golem with no cold resistance, but they also have no physical damage resistances of any kind (just weapon enchantment immunities).
I never said the wave was the best nor the most amazing weapon ever, it's a great weapon but of course there are better. There just happen to be very few good two handed weapons so it kind of does shine in that category.
People just tend to say the Impaler is sooo amazing because it's high damage, it really isn't.
In the Category of 2 handed weapons in SoA i would rate like this.
Carsomyr 10/10 The Wave 8/10 Impaler 7/10
If we look at both one handed and two handed weapons, i would rate it something like this.
Carsomyr 9/10 The Wave 6½-7/10 The Impaler 6/10
I'm not saying the wave is gods gift to CHARNAME. I'm saying it's a great two handed weapon and one of the best in SoA.
In the Category of 2 handed weapons in SoA 2 i would rate like this.
Carsomyr 10/10 The Wave 8/10 Impaler 7/10
I think that it is dependent on the foe you are attacking, and where you put your profs. If you have a Paladin with ** on THS, halberds, spears and THWS, you would rate Carsomyr 10/10 against mages and most other foes. The Wave 10/10 against fire elementals and other of that creature type. The Impaler 8 or 9/10 against non-piercing immune, non-spellcasting. The Silver Blade 10/10 against almost all not immune to Slay effect opcode. Dragon's Breath 9/10 against enemy mages with Stoneskin.
In the Category of 2 handed weapons in SoA 2 i would rate like this.
Carsomyr 10/10 The Wave 8/10 Impaler 7/10
I think that it is dependent on the foe you are attacking, and where you put your profs. If you have a Paladin with ** on THS, halberds, spears and THWS, you would rate Carsomyr 10/10 against mages and most other foes. The Wave 10/10 against fire elementals and other of that creature type. The Impaler 8 or 9/10 against non-piercing immune, non-spellcasting. The Silver Blade 10/10 against almost all not immune to Slay effect opcode. Dragon's Breath 9/10 against enemy mages with Stoneskin.
I agree that it depends on the foe you're attacking, but i'm putting a rating on them based on using them as weapons against everything.
You can use the Wave from the moment you get it until the end as it's a +4 weapon and has some nice abilities, this brings it up to 8/10.
Carsomyr for it's damage, +5 and the fact you get it so early would be 9/10. But the 50% MR pushes it over the top so it' always a 10/10.
Carsomyr is miles ahead of all the competition for SOA 2 handers. Then i would take the silver sword (we are talking SOA there, so there is basically no difference between +3 and +4 it terms of which foe you can it)
All other 2 handers pretty much suck compared to 1 handers like FOA, celestial fury or crom faeyr (even if you don't dual wield or don't use a shield)
Comments
Honestly, from what is said here it is pretty powerful. People like to dual wield, but not all characters have the necessary pips. Take Dorn for example. Two handed style would help him in his other chosen weapon as well. Or a bard who cannot put 3 pips into 2 weapon style.
Also 15 percent chance to do FIFTEEN extra damage? That is hefty.
For example: Deathbringer Assault on Sarevok. He usually wields a two hander and this ability gives him a 3% chance of occurring and doing 200! piercing damage. Pretty massive right?
Well lets look at The Wave. The chance of it doing the additional damage is 5 times better. So 5x15=75 damage.
The ability of this weapon doesn't match Deathbringer Assault, obviously, but that damage on top of the normal 1d10+4 is pretty hard to reproduce with other weapons. Once you get your improved hastes and your whirlwind attacks, you will get more attacks, that while still attacking slightly less than a dual wielded speed weapon character, gives you a more opportunities to *get* the extra 15 damage.
Now imagine Sarevok with GM in halberds using The Wave. One in every five hits all of the sudden does a massive amount of damage.
Considering only SOA and early levels of WK (levels 1-2)
Damage-wise (including +1 bonus for 2H weapons)
Impaler : 17.5
The wave : 12.75
Carsomyr : 12.5.
Spear of withering 12.5
Warblade 11.5
Soul reaver 10.5
FOA 10.5.
Crom Faeyr 10.5.
Usuno's Blade 9.6.
Celestial fury 9.5.
blackblood 9.5.
Silver sword 9.5
I consider the following weapons better choices than the wave, even without considering shieldsor dual wielding for 2H weapons
- Impaler has way more damage and is available earlier
- Carsomyr has way better bonus and is available at the same time (considering killing firkgraag after underdark) or earlier
- Silver sword has less damage but much better effect. Available at the same time
- FOA provides spell disruption, slow effect, available earlier
- Celestial fury for stun effect, available earlier
- Crom faeyr for 25 strength. better situationnal bonus, available at the same time
So really, whatever way you think of it, the wave is a rather poor choice, at least for powergaming purpose.
Likewise the chance of Sarevok not getting his deathbringer assault (at least the damage portion) after 5 hits is 85.9%. The difference being deathbringer assault makes a much more substancial difference when it hits (ohh and for the record it does slashing damage not piercing damage).
Either way just because you have a listed 3% chance of doing one thing and a 15% chance of doing another, doesn't mean you actually have an 18% chance of doing one of the two. There is a very good chance of you seeing no extra damage in those 5 hits.
Actually the extra damage for the Wave is quite easy to reproduce with other weapons because as has already been shown your chances of getting the Wave's bonus damage at least once in 7 hits is 68%. At 10 hits its 80.3%.
However, the Impaler does on average of 16.5 damage vs the average of 9.5 damage with the Wave (when its bonus isn't considered). After 10 hits the impaler would do an average of 165 damage and the Wave would do an average of 95 damage. The Wave does have the benefit of a 5% better chance of hitting (due to its greater Thac0 bonus), but you'd still need to get a lot of those +15 cold damage hits for it to make up for its lack of physical damage.
I mean its not terrible or anything but even amongst two handed weapons there are more damaging, more useful, and/or more easily acquired options.
It's just brute meleeing. Use a few mordy sword to tank for you and all that area is trivially easy anyway.
- Impaler is a +3 spear, who picks grand master spear for that one spear? It's a niché weapon because of it's +10 damage which can be completely negated if you're fighting a golem. People really need to stop raising this spear to the heavens, it really isn't that good. It's not in anyway a bad weapon, but there are much better ones out there (FoA, Carsomyr).
- Carsomyr is paladin only.
- Silver Sword deals less damage and is only +3. It has a nice to hit effect, but i'll pick the wave over it. More damage on the wave, just no chances to get vorpal hits.
- FoA is the best weapon in the game, nothing will beat it except perhaps the ravager.
- Celestial fury is a +3 weapon and it also has a chance effect. It's a very powerful weapon and i'll admit to this, but it's a one hander and sadly only +3 so you won't be able to use it when you get to ToB and for fights like kangaxx.
- Crom Fayer requires you to sacrifice all your strength items and it's a one hander.
If you read my post i said that the wave was the second best TWO handed weapon. This is my opinion and i'll pick it over the impaler anyday, Carsomyr is still the top dog. With this logic any fight in the game is easy.
"Use a few mordy"
With preparations and knowledge like this the game is incredible easy.
Mind flayers? Use 5 hasted skeletal warriors.
Umber hulks? Use cloud kill.
Anything else? Use a naked mage and he'll do it all alone and still not lose any health.
I never said the wave was the best nor the most amazing weapon ever, it's a great weapon but of course there are better. There just happen to be very few good two handed weapons so it kind of does shine in that category.
People just tend to say the Impaler is sooo amazing because it's high damage, it really isn't.
In the Category of 2 handed weapons in SoA i would rate like this.
Carsomyr 10/10
The Wave 8/10
Impaler 7/10
If we look at both one handed and two handed weapons, i would rate it something like this.
Carsomyr 9/10
The Wave 6½-7/10
The Impaler 6/10
I'm not saying the wave is gods gift to CHARNAME. I'm saying it's a great two handed weapon and one of the best in SoA.
Carsomyr 10/10 against mages and most other foes.
The Wave 10/10 against fire elementals and other of that creature type.
The Impaler 8 or 9/10 against non-piercing immune, non-spellcasting.
The Silver Blade 10/10 against almost all not immune to Slay effect opcode.
Dragon's Breath 9/10 against enemy mages with Stoneskin.
You can use the Wave from the moment you get it until the end as it's a +4 weapon and has some nice abilities, this brings it up to 8/10.
Carsomyr for it's damage, +5 and the fact you get it so early would be 9/10. But the 50% MR pushes it over the top so it' always a 10/10.
Then i would take the silver sword (we are talking SOA there, so there is basically no difference between +3 and +4 it terms of which foe you can it)
All other 2 handers pretty much suck compared to 1 handers like FOA, celestial fury or crom faeyr
(even if you don't dual wield or don't use a shield)