Do you consider abusing Drizzt's AI to kill him in BG1 "cheating"?

thesoloer

As in luring him to the edge of the water and then bow shooting him to death from the island while he stands there and twitches.

elminster

Its cheesy sure but its not cheating.

FinaLfront

I consider a lot of things cheesy and/or cheating. In this specific circumstance I would consider it cheating, as there is not much difference between that and CLUAconsoling him to death. Now, if you were to put every buff and potion on someone, have them tank while spamming heal spells on them, that's cheesy.

Things like early access to RoP +1 and RoW are grey areas, the early ankheg plate without a doubt in my opinion. I would consider the ankheg plate if they'd changed the description at the very least. Again, these items are basically CLUAconsoled into your inventory without the typing.

meagloth

To be honest, I didn't even know that was a thing. I'll probably try it now. I've heard they fixed the infamous "drizzt pathfinding bug" but I guess this isn't it?

elminster

meagloth said:

To be honest, I didn't even know that was a thing. I'll probably try it now. I've heard they fixed the infamous "drizzt pathfinding bug" but I guess this isn't it?

Yes this is it.

meagloth

elminster said:

meagloth said:

To be honest, I didn't even know that was a thing. I'll probably try it now. I've heard they fixed the infamous "drizzt pathfinding bug" but I guess this isn't it?

Yes this is it.

Then it's fixed, right?

elminster

meagloth said:

elminster said:

meagloth said:

To be honest, I didn't even know that was a thing. I'll probably try it now. I've heard they fixed the infamous "drizzt pathfinding bug" but I guess this isn't it?

Yes this is it.

Then it's fixed, right?

Yep

meagloth

elminster said:

meagloth said:

elminster said:

meagloth said:

To be honest, I didn't even know that was a thing. I'll probably try it now. I've heard they fixed the infamous "drizzt pathfinding bug" but I guess this isn't it?

Yes this is it.

Then it's fixed, right?

Yep

Well, darn.

thesoloer

@FinaLFront you consider getting the Ankheg armor in Nashkel "cheating"?.........wat

CrevsDaak

thesoloer said:

@FinaLFront you consider getting the Ankheg armor in Nashkel "cheating"?.........wat

Metagame knowledge, used wisely, it's the most powerful of the tools.

thesoloer

There is just no way to kill Drizzt as a low-level solo fighter without using the path search nodes exploit.

Blackraven

FinaLfront said:

I consider a lot of things cheesy and/or cheating. In this specific circumstance I would consider it cheating, as there is not much difference between that and CLUAconsoling him to death. Now, if you were to put every buff and potion on someone, have them tank while spamming heal spells on them, that's cheesy.

Things like early access to RoP +1 and RoW are grey areas, the early ankheg plate without a doubt in my opinion. I would consider the ankheg plate if they'd changed the description at the very least. Again, these items are basically CLUAconsoled into your inventory without the typing.

Between finding the RoW in the rubble under a tree and the Ankheg plate on the side of the farmland I'd say the former is at least as improbable as the latter (even taking the armour's protective colouring into account). Personally I find it more difficult to roleplay finding the ring (and therefore "cheatier").

thesoloer

I really didn't mean to vote yes, I just wanted to see if voting would let me see the results of my poll.

CoM_Solaufein

Not at all. A good Drizzt is a dead Drizzt.

Archaos

It's not cheating in the strictest sense (like using cheatcodes) but it's cheating in the way that you're getting an unfair and unintentional advantage over it.

FinaLfront

thesoloer said:

There is just no way to kill Drizzt as a low-level solo fighter without using the path search nodes exploit.

I hear he has sweet scimitars

Tresset

Well my method still...

What the heck is this?! Invisibility detection script?!?!?!?!?!?! NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

*cough* *ahem* Well... I am still smarter than him... I will find a way... Yeah....

I had no idea they would fix that bug that way... now who was the idiot that reported that one?

Kamigoroshi

Personally, I consider Drizzt to be the real cheater here. Just look at all those immunities he shouldn't possess in the first place.

FinaLfront

Kamigoroshi said:

Personally, I consider Drizzt to be the real cheater here. Just look at all those immunities he shouldn't possess in the first place.

True, and the amount of non-crit damage he does with that 13 str

Demonoid_Limewire

I do not know about exploits. I killed him with another method, which is also considered an exploit (using firebead elvenhair and export import in original 1, plus an entire party of my own creation, plus the Expansion Pack saved game and multiplayer save load to dress them up in endgame items, i got six powerhouses, 2 of them were cleric and druid respectively with serious summons; in original 1, summoning creatures got you a small army of them, i filled the grounds around Drizzt with a vast army, had them all blessed and chanted, ordered them to attack him, switched to the ranged weapons on all characters with +2 artillery bought from the mission pack saved game, and fella was dead on less than 5 minutes).

Using the bad AI is not cheating, for me, just exploiting. Since you did it without using console command, an editor, hacking tools or cheat insertion, then it should be acceptable. If you enjoyed what you did, and how you play the game with this style, it is ok, and all that matters, actually.

SirK8

The only real way to kill Drizzt is to use werebears...

CrevsDaak

SirK8 said:

The only real way to kill Drizzt is to use werebears...

You are lying.
They are clearly werecapyabras with slings. (joking)

Elrandir

It depends on your definition. And I don't mean your personal definition of cheating, I mean your definition of the word "cheat". If you look at a dictionary, (I specifically used dictionary.com, because I'm too lazy to pull out the book, but there's probably not much difference) there are several meanings, but the two I want to focus on are:

To violate rules or regulations: "He cheats at cards."

To take an examination or test in a dishonest way, as by improper access to answers.

If your definition of cheating is the former, then no, to merely abuse the system's natural rules is not cheating, it is merely cheesy.
If your definition of cheating is the latter, then yes, it is. In this case, you would be taking the "test" (or challenge) of fighting Drizzt in a "dishonest" way, as by the improper access to "answers". (not fighting him the way it is meant to be done)

Basically what I'm trying to say is that the question is subjective. To each their own. Personally, I believe it's merely a lot of cheese.

jackjack

It's definitely on the borderline - for me personally, it feels like cheating, hence my vote. But I appreciate the other side's argument.

mumumomo

"Now, if you were to put every buff and potion on someone, have them tank while spamming heal spells on them, that's cheesy."
Why some people keep saying that playing with some wits is cheesy? I really don't get that. If you use potions, that's cheesy. If you use spells, that's cheesy,... At the end of the day, what is not? Creating a vanilla fighter and play it like diablo?

As for killing drizzt, i prefer the fireshield method. Much more classy than abusing pathfinding.

FinaLfront

mumumomo said:

Why some people keep saying that playing with some wits is cheesy? I really don't get that. If you use potions, that's cheesy. If you use spells, that's cheesy,... At the end of the day, what is not?

I'm sure, you actually do get it
No, using a spell here, and a potion there, isn't cheesy. Put in it's proper context, in this case, having Drizzt just stand there watching as you and your group oddly buff for armageddon, is cheesy. It essentially boils down to what @CrevsDaak said earlier:

CrevsDaak said:

Metagame knowledge, used wisely, it's the most powerful of the tools.

In all fairness, the game cheeses you first. Drizzt, the final battle, Aec'Letec... These battles can't be realistically fought without your own cheese.

CrevsDaak

FinaLfront said:

The final battle, Aec'Letec... These battles can't be realistically fought without your own cheese.

I've beaten Aec'Letec with a completely non-cheesy strategy, with a level 11 Cleric solo.
The final battle in BG1 is easy. You are also aware of what Sarevok is going to do and you know that fighting him is inevitable, so, I don't think that buffing for that fight is cheesy. Plus it *is* easy, Sarevok is just a hard-hitting guy, I used Greater Malison + some charges of the Wand of Stun and he got sunned for the whole battle (and he got killed by a level 9 mage).

Catoblepas

Drizzt is a blight on the realms and anything that can be done to remove him from it is completely justifiable.

Besides, as has been pointed out-he cheats rather badly himself-so why should be hold back?

FinneousPJ

@CrevsDaak‌ You should only be able to reach Cleric 8 in this game, so not really a valid point.

CrevsDaak

FinneousPJ said:

CrevsDaak‌ You should only be able to reach Cleric 8 in this game, so not really a valid point.

I do know that. Still an easy fight, just make a Fighter drink a Potion of Magic Shielding and use the Necklace of Missiles.

SionIV

FinaLfront said:

mumumomo said:

In all fairness, the game cheeses you first. Drizzt, the final battle, Aec'Letec... These battles can't be realistically fought without your own cheese.

Nothing cheesy about Aec'Letec. A potion of mirroring which makes sense as it's his gaze, and you're ready to pummel him to death. It should be quite obvious to even a RP CHARNAME to go for the humans in the room.