creative strategies for breaking up NPC pairs

Lemernis

@Blackraven's thread NPC as real life friend? got me thinking about assembling my 'most liked' party which includes two NPCs that are force-paired. Traditional methods of separating paired NPCs include removing one from the party separately in a building, or purposely getting them killed in battle.

But in a recent game I've been playing where I'm using only Eldoth, via EE Keeper I realized that could simply add a global variable for him (RESCUEDSKIE set to 1) and that solved the problem of Eldoth leaving. And I'm now wondering if I can do the same thing for Dynaheir...

If anyone who uses EE Keeper has a saved game in which Mincs's quest is completed and Dynaheir is in the party, can you please check to see what the global variable is for her that might reflect resolution of her quest? Including the value the variable is set to of course. And please report back in this thread? (Thanking you in advance if you can and will.)

As for Khalid and Jaheira, I guess one way to do it is to use the CLUA console and Ctrl+Y one of them, then pretend that member of the pair got killed somehow before arriving at FAI. Same thing with Xzar and Montaron.

Any other clever ideas about how to most artfully separate NPC pairs?

winters

Some people say that leaving the unwanted party member in a building you can visit without gathering your party before venturing forth and then removing him/her should work, but I never tried that, so I can't promise it will.

Lemernis

@winters, it definitely does work. The PC (or actually it might work for any party member as well) takes the NPC to be removed into a building--just those two, though, just the unwanted PC only with the rest of the party waiting outside--and removes the unwanted NPC. Put the unwanted PC alone in a building and place the entire rest of the party outside. The reform the party to remove the unwated NPC. Then the dialogue that has both NPCs leave then does not fire. You just want to make sure you do it in an area that the party doesn't have to frequent; else the removed NPC will try to rejoin each time he or she sees the other member of the pair.

I was thinking though, that there might be cleverer and more elegant ways, such as using an editor. For example, I'm not sure if some editors allow you to simply remove a NPC from the creature list. Or perhaps we could change their global variables so that they are no longer forced-paired.

meagloth

Always kill the mouthy one, I always say.

Lemernis

@meagloth Hehe! I guess that would be Xzar, Jaheira, Minsc, and Skie then.

Tresset

Well, first I give my unwanted party members a "Scroll of Protection from Magic". Then I tell them to stand in my stash room in the upstairs of the Jovial Juggler. Then they read the scroll. For some reason this removes them from the party. Not sure why...

winters

Tresset said:

Well, first I give my unwanted party members a "Scroll of Protection from Magic". Then I tell them to stand in my stash room in the upstairs of the Jovial Juggler. Then they read the scroll. For some reason this removes them from the party. Not sure why...

You're not just a brilliant strategist, sir, but also probably quite a renowned art collector :P

meagloth

Um, what evil fiend kills Minsc?! And xzar? Everybody's favorite batshit crazy necromancy!?

But seriously, Jaheira had it coming.
I'm pretty sure Skie is a evil true neutral imoen doplaganger. She's would be decent if you could redistribute thieving skill points, or get her early game. I like her portrait though. The crap NPC's always get the good portraits, what is that, their consolation prize? Skie, cernd, viconia, some would say Khalid, some could say jaheira(bg1, obviously) maybe xzar(he's cool, but few ever keep him) and the good ones get the crap portraits. Tiax, imoen, definitely coran(dem human ears doh) every single bg2 npc except cernd and Minsc, *sigh*

Lemernis

@meagloth, well those were the comparatively mouthier ones of the respective pairs. If ya gonna have to kill the mouthy one then I'm afraid it's Minsc and Xzar.

Lemernis

@Tresset I dunno I might have them read the scroll in a backyard garden in Beregost for a lawn decoration.

CrevsDaak

The only time I wanted Jaheira and Khalid to break up, I sent Jaheira in a naked Basilisk hunt.

Blackraven

@Lemernis, why would you consider using a savegame editor more elegant than other options? Personally I don't like killing NPCs nor locking them up. What I normally do is go to a wilderness area with outdoors-type NPCs such (Minsc, Jaheira, Khalid) or to a city area with more urban NPCs (Montaron, Xzar, Eldoth, Skie). We "say goodbye", and then I move my party to a border of the map and the NPC to another corner, one where I won't likely run into them unless I want to, and then I dismiss him/her from my party and leave the area.

Tresset

@Lemernis I didn't notice that you asked for a variable earlier. Type the following into your console and the variable will be set so that Minsc will not leave:

C:SetGlobal("HelpMinsc","GLOBAL",2)

Lemernis

@Blackraven Well, with an editor you can perhaps from the start not have them paired at all. For example with Dynaheir maybe if you give her the proper global variable then you won't have to bother with Minsc at all. (Same notion as with giving Eldoth RESCUEDSKIE set to 1.) You can just pretend that the NPC that you want to add changed his or her mind about insisting on being paired with the other one that you don't want. For Xzar and Monty and Jaheira and Khalid, it's a bit tougher, though.

Lemernis

Tresset said:

@Lemernis I didn't notice that you asked for a variable earlier. Type the following into your console and the variable will be set so that Minsc will not leave:

C:SetGlobal("HelpMinsc","GLOBAL",2)

@Tresset Awesome! Thanks.

Is there any global variable setting that might uncouple Jaheira and Khalid, and Xzar and Montaron, respectively?

Blackraven

Ah good point. That would definitely be the nicest solution.
I guess it'll taking some experimenting with variables to find out if it's possible.

Tresset

Lemernis said:

Is there any global variable setting that might uncouple Jaheira and Khalid, and Xzar and Montaron, respectively?

No. Those two pairs are together when you meet them and there is no associated quest that sees them separated. Thus there is no variable that lets you kick one out without losing the other or have one join but not the other.

Lemernis

@Tresset Okay, so for NPC pairs nothing akin to the BUTTPLUG variable for Yoshimo. (I.e., something the original coders put in as a way around a script.) Oh well.

(Believe it or not that actually is the name of the variable.)

Lemernis

Blackraven said:

Ah good point. That would definitely be the nicest solution.
I guess it'll taking some experimenting with variables to find out if it's possible.

Or more conveniently a coder out there somewhere already knows the answer!

Lemernis

For Skie the dialog options don't allow her to join unless Eldoth is present. So let's say you go right to the Silvershield estate without Eldoth in the party. You could do the following:

- use the CLUA console to create Eldoth temporarily (which is a copy of him--he will still be in Cloakwood)
- add him (to do that you might temporarily have to drop someone else as long as they're a NPC that stays put)
- have Skie join (again, to do that you might temporarily have to drop someone else as long as they're a NPC that stays put)
- Ctrl+Y Eldoth (the copy of him you created just to accomplish all this)
- ask temporarily removed NPCs rejoin

I don't see any other way to do it, given that there's no dialog option to let her join without Eldoth present. Thoughts?

Lemernis

Tresset said:

@Lemernis I didn't notice that you asked for a variable earlier. Type the following into your console and the variable will be set so that Minsc will not leave:

C:SetGlobal("HelpMinsc","GLOBAL",2)

Oops, actually I didn't read closely enough. What I'm looking for is a global variable by which to have Dynaheir in the party without her insisting that you find Minsc and complete the quest of him rescuing her. I.e., one that satisfies the quest and for which you wouldn't even have to talk to Minsc...

Tresset

@Lemernis I was wondering if that was what you were getting at... Does Dynaheir actually complain if you don't find Minsc soon enough? I looked at both their dialogs and there does not seem to be any setting of any timer type variables when you pick up Dynaheir first (nor any variables at all). There is also no setting of any resolution type variables when you talk to Minsc with Dynaheir in the party (other than helpminsc 2 of course). I think you would be fine if you just picked up Dynaheir and never talked to Minsc.

winters

Tresset said:

I think you would be fine if you just picked up Dynaheir and never talked to Minsc.

I confirm - that's what I did recently and Dynaheir never complained, so you can simply ignore Minsc I think.

Lemernis

@Tresset Thanks, and I have tested this a little as well, and as @‌winters says it looks like Minsc and Dynaheir ignore one another unless you initiate conversation with Minsc in this case. That said, I'm not sure if there is a timer set for Dynaheir to request that you find Minsc.

But actually, in this challenge you may want to use characters later. So there's no harm in just going ahead and have Minsc temporarily join, and then remove him in the inn at the south end of the village.

BelgarathMTH

Has anyone mentioned using BG Tweaks or SCS? They both have a component to separate pairs just by asking them to. There's even a nice dialogue sequence where the pair discuss the separation and agree to it with each other. You're then given a choice to send the one to either the FAI or tell them to stay put.

Lemernis

Thanks @BelgarathMTH that's a great suggestion. BG Tweaks is available for EE? (I can look for the thread for BGEE mods later, but if anyone knows feel free to respond.).

BelgarathMTH

The link for Tweaks says it's compatible - use BG2 Tweaks for both BG:EE and BG2:EE.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/bg2tweaks/

EDIT: Unfortunately, I just checked, and the Tweaks NPC separation is not available after all - I think it's because that component is part of the original BG1 version, which is not used in the EE.

EDIT #2: The current version of SCS is compatible with EE, and it DOES have the NPC separation components. So, you could use it, and install only that component, if you didn't want any of the difficulty enhancements or other convenience components.

http://www.gibberlings3.net/scs/