Dual class questions and brainstorm.
Tresset
Member, Moderator Posts: 8,264
I have never really tried dual classing on one of my characters. Now I am considering experimenting with dual classes but I would like to bounce a few ideas off of the community and then get some questions answered about what to expect.
Lets start with my first idea for a dual class: I was thinking starting off as a Shadowdancer and then dualing to fighter at level 13 (when I reach the maximum backstab multiplier). The reasoning behind this was that I wanted a character with fighter combat prowess that excels in stealth and can backstab like a champ. I thought about shadowdancer > fighter (as opposed to fighter kit > thief (which I know is popular for some reason that escapes me)) because the hide in plain sight really appeals to me.
Now a few questions about the Shadowdancer>Fighter: At about what point in SoA would I get my Shadowdancer powers back if I dualed at 13 (I usually do everything possible before heading to Brynnlaw with the exception of Watchers Keep)? At about what point would I get the fighter HLAs? Are there any tweaks to the basic plan above that would make my character much better or are in general worth considering (such as the level at which I dual)? How should I spend my proficiency points to optimize my character (I would probably want to dual wield something in the long term (scimitars maybe))? Anything else I should know?
Lets start with my first idea for a dual class: I was thinking starting off as a Shadowdancer and then dualing to fighter at level 13 (when I reach the maximum backstab multiplier). The reasoning behind this was that I wanted a character with fighter combat prowess that excels in stealth and can backstab like a champ. I thought about shadowdancer > fighter (as opposed to fighter kit > thief (which I know is popular for some reason that escapes me)) because the hide in plain sight really appeals to me.
Now a few questions about the Shadowdancer>Fighter: At about what point in SoA would I get my Shadowdancer powers back if I dualed at 13 (I usually do everything possible before heading to Brynnlaw with the exception of Watchers Keep)? At about what point would I get the fighter HLAs? Are there any tweaks to the basic plan above that would make my character much better or are in general worth considering (such as the level at which I dual)? How should I spend my proficiency points to optimize my character (I would probably want to dual wield something in the long term (scimitars maybe))? Anything else I should know?
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Comments
Btw careful with dismissing NPCs you're romancing, it will break the romance.
I never bother with dualling at high levels, too tedious, but if you're patient the results are often great, from what I've read.
To play a shadow dancer, you need to get your HIS/MS to decent levels. This is not well suited for
thieves-fighter types.
As a matter Given shadowdancer low skill point progression :
- dualling at 9 you would do have around 110/110 (not great if needing to do it during the day) and nothing else
- dualling at 13 you would have around 140/140.
Therefore your thief will not be able to do anything else than HIS/MS and you will need another thief
On the opposite, if you don't use HIS/MS you have enough points at level 9 to reach 100 in find traps and open locks.
Therefore i would rather do an assassin->fighter :
- takes care of traps and locks
- Can backstab (better than a Shadow dancer) using invisibility rings (a lot of them are available in SOA)
- HUGE dps thanks to poison weapon (can kill a dragon in 1-2 rounds using improved haste and dual wielding)
For the level :
If you don't play solo, try to dual class at lower level (maybe 9 at most) or you will not experience your class for most of SOA.
For proficiencies :
Dual wielding is the obvious powergaming choice.
I like to start with GM in scimitars :
- they can backstab
- belm is the best off hand you can get and is very easy to get
- usuno +4 is also very easy to get
To maximise your proficiencies, do not take them in both your thief period and your fighter period or you will lose them.
For example :assuming a level 13/14 dual if you put 1 in longsword as a thief and 1 in long sword as a level 1 fighter. When you reach level 14, you will just have 1 PIP in longsword. Therefore you would have wasted 1.
What you can do :
thief level 9 :
- shortbow (very useful BG1)
- longsword
- quarterstaff (great for backstab)
- 2H weapon
Fighter level 1 :
Scimitar 2 -> 5 at level 9
dual wielding 2
At level 10 your proficiencies would be :
- shortbow 1
- longsword 1
- quarterstaff 1
- 2H weapon 1
- Scimitar 5
- dual wielding 2
at the xp cap you would have 10 other PIP which is enough to reach 2 other GM (with leftover is you chose GM is quarterstaff/shortbow or longsword)
Edit: Shadowdancer is my favorite Thief kit, even more so than Assassin. HiPS is a lot of fun.
Also just to explain to the OP why fighter->thief is more popular than thief -> fighter :
fighter->thief has :
- easier dualling to due low thief xp requirements
- much better HP at early-mid level (although the thief->fighter tend to catch up for the end game, when it does not really matte)
- fighters don't progress at all past level 13 (they THACO is low enough to hit anything and they have all the APR they can get). On the contrary, thieves may need more levels to master all their skills. Their traps/poison also keep improving with levels.
- Thief HLA are better that fighter's.
UAI and traps are especially powerful. GWW can be easily reproduced with improved haste and dual wielding. Assassination is stronger than critical strike against non-immune ennemies
The only thing that could tilt the balance toward a thief->fighter is the thieves kits.
If you look at them :
- swashbuckler -> fighter. Very OP. But a kensai->thief is stronger (better HP, better melee modifiers, backstab, better HLA). The only thing the swashbuckler has for him in comparison is the AC.
- bounty hunter -> fighter. Poor choice. Traps benefit mostly from higher thieves levels. A fighter->thief will end up being a much better trapper thanks to HLA
- shadow dancer ->fighter. As explained in my previous post, you have to a sacrifice all your skills point to get HIS/MS to sufficient level (if you don't use stealth, this kit has no point). So basically you get a fighter with (weak) backstab. A Kensai->thief will be MUCH stronger at backstabbing (and can use the staff of the magi if you like HIPS that much)
- assassin-> fighter. Now we are talking. This class is completely OP, thanks to poison weapon.
I did an assassin 11/fighter 12 (skill points in find traps and set traps). I stopped playing it because it was disgustingly OP.
Also, if you have trouble with this bug try this: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/comment/489064/#Comment_489064
It didn't work for me but it may work for you.
Edit: Wow; that was quick. Never mind then; I fixed it myself.
Dualling 13 without cheesing takes a veeeeery long time.
In group you spend half of the game as a gimp character and not playing the concept you actually wanted to play.
That's why level 9 is a better idea IMO :
- you get full HP progression
- dualling process can be completed very early in BG2 : level 10 is 160xp for a thief, 250 kxp for a mage so total xp is around 500k. As opposed to level 13 fighter which requires 2.750 Mxp as a mage (all SOA in a group) and 2M xp as a thief.
- your get HLA significantly earlier (=1mXP before)
- you lose 1/2 APR which is actually not that much of a big deal since GWW sets it anyway to 10 and the APR caps at 5 which you can anyway reach as a level 9 fighter (speed weapon + 1, level 7+1/2, Grand master +1, dual wielding +1, gauntlets of extraordinary spec +1/2)
Level 7 can also be considered with slightly lower HP but even faster dualling (completed toward the end of BGEE) and earlier access to HLA (basically at the same time than a single class character)