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What are hit points?

WolkWolk Member Posts: 279

I have seen a few discusions on attributes, strengh, wisdom and dexterity. However, I haven't seen any on hit points. What do they mean to you? How do you justify gaining more by level up or by constitution?



I see HP as an indicator of fatigue and weariness from combat.

The way I see them, they are not only some indicator of how many hard blows you can take. One really hard blow will kill you whatever happens. A level 20 fighter getting an axe through his brain should die like a level 1 mage getting an axe through his brain should die. (The axe might miss the fighters brain since it's smaller...)


The difference between those characters is that the former has battle training. He will be abble to block the axe with his sword or something. The blow he blocked would then leave him tired and he might have a scratch left by the blow, but nothing really serious. HP from level up and class is how to avoid injury blows your armor/shield didn't block completely or you didn't entirily avoid. It is the deffensive counterpart of your THAC0 getting better as you level up.

I can't really roleplay them by getting severely injured because your fighting capacity stays the same even after you get injured, even on an adrenaline rush you would still feel the effects of an injury, which would end in you hitting less often and getting hit more. Only a character with high CON should be abble to endure some pain, others are just too weak for it. Also why non fighters don't get as much from CON, they don't feel as much pain daily.

Getting close to zero HP means that you are so tired/distracted that the next blow you won't block perfectly (AC) will end up by you dying or getting severely injured after which the enemy kills you.


Come share your opinion on the mistery of hit points!

(This is a roleplay question, I know what hitpoints are!)

jackjackSCARY_WIZARDQuartzBlackravenJuliusBorisovCrevsDaakBelgarathMTH

Comments

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Yeah, I like your take on it. It makes more sense than anything I've ever been able to come up with.

    QuartzWolk
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    I'm with @jackjack. I've never gotten how HP at level up really works, but I suppose 'defensive THACO' is as good an answer as any.

    jackjackWolk
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,466
    Wolk said:

    jackjack said:

    Gaining them at level up has never made any sense to me. I suppose it's done this way in order to reward continuous play and grow your character more powerful, but I've never been able to come up with a justification for it.

    Still, a more experienced fighter will still last longer in a fight than a newbie, even if they have exactly the same gear. Hit points then become a measure of your endurance in a fight. I see it as a deffensive equivalent of THACO. Both get better as you get more experienced. You manage to get better moves to hit your opponent and you manage to become better at evading blows, but you still get tired while doing so.
    This makes sense for warriors, and probably rogues and priests. But what about mages? The average mage doesn't do anything to improve their endurance and resiliance in battle. This isn't a criticism though. I actually like your concept.

  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    The fatigue thing is not really convincing :
    - at -10 THACO, it means that i keep doing evasive moves in order to avoid getting hit. This should exhaust me. And yet, as long as i don't get "hit" (successful THACO hit), i don't lose HP = i don't fatigue

    - if it's only fatigue, how come it takes DAYS to recover. After a good night of sleep, i should get back all my HP

    Anyway, i don't think everything needs a realistic explanation. Sometimes (always?) fun and gameplay are more important than realism.

    Blackraven
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,456
    @mumumomo You're really something if you recover from any degree of fatigue over a single night's sleep.

    SCARY_WIZARDjackjackAristillius
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I read something about it in the v.3.5 manuals, it was similar to Wolk's explanation.

    A level 1 Fighter is strucked by a fireball, he takes it right in the face and die instantly.

    A level 20 Fighter is strucked by the same fireball, he manages to dodge it partially and/or block it with his shield and is only a little burned.

    It represents a combination of skill and luck, when the level 20 Fighter have only a few HPs remaining and he takes a blow from a sword, his luck runs out and the sword cut an artery or something and he dies.

    SCARY_WIZARD
  • mumumomomumumomo Member Posts: 635
    @finneousPJ, grantes some extreme fatigue may need 16-24 hours of rest (i slept for 17hours once ...) But unless you are sick, i dont really see why it should take 50 days to recover....

  • WolkWolk Member Posts: 279



    This makes sense for warriors, and probably rogues and priests. But what about mages? The average mage doesn't do anything to improve their endurance and resiliance in battle. This isn't a criticism though. I actually like your concept.

    It's why they don't get as much as much HP. It's more about mages being abble to run yelling "Oh S**t!! Oh S**t!!" for longer! :P
    mumumomo said:

    The fatigue thing is not really convincing :
    - at -10 THACO, it means that i keep doing evasive moves in order to avoid getting hit. This should exhaust me. And yet, as long as i don't get "hit" (successful THACO hit), i don't lose HP = i don't fatigue

    - if it's only fatigue, how come it takes DAYS to recover. After a good night of sleep, i should get back all my HP

    Anyway, i don't think everything needs a realistic explanation. Sometimes (always?) fun and gameplay are more important than realism.

    It's not realy fatigue, it's weariness. More like non bleeding injuries whith no bones broken and nothing serious enough to make you stop fighting. But I have to agree, it's not a perfect definition.
    Being an open wound each time doesn't make a lot of sense. Immagine reading a novel and you read this.

    "CHARNAME took a sword to the belly. Then another. Then another one. A sword chops his arm. Then an axe hit his neck and he almost got beheaded. However, he still has hit points so he keeps fighting. The party's mage casts a fireball and kills every enemy, but CHARNAME standing in the middle of the crowd made his save and still survives but is severely burned. He is almost dead. The two cleric then proceeds to cast twelve cure light wounds on the fighter and his arm grows back and his head gets reattached."

    I'm sorry if you took my last comment as sarcasm or any way to insult you. it wasn't my intention. :)

    @Dee‌

    I see a good way to explain dammage reduction. Immagine a lich in 2nd Ed. It is immune to normal weapon. Immagine you find a way to make the ceiling fall on the lich. The ceiling isn't magic. Should the lich be immune to hit or should the raw force behind the hit still damage it? It should logically take some dammage. The same could go from a heavy blow from a half-orc barbarian swinging a greatsword at the lich with all his strengh. The sword wouldn't cut the skin of the undead, but it should still get injured from the impact. Why 3rd ed has dammage reduction Magic.

    Missread your post, i'll try to come up with a theory on Natural AC...

    Natural AC would be that you wouldn't feel much injury if you get hit, as if you had scales or very hard skin which the sword couldn't pierce or cut through.

    Dammage reduction would be the reduction of the impact when you mannaged to cut through the skin or scales. It would be harder to keep piercing through it.

    Not very precise, but it's hard to find roleplay explanations for gameplay mechanics.

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,413
    edited April 2014
    Imagine a party manages to drop the ceiling on top of a lich. They are wounded, exhausted but think they have won. But, no. The rubble is blasted away with a powerful magic and the lich rises from the rocks and stones he was buried in, his clothes are even more tattered and torn, but he looks uninjured:how can such frail looking ancient bones survive tons of stone? It is impossible, it is absurd! The party is shocked and can't act as they are paralysed by fear from the eerie red light coming from the empty eyesockets of the lich:he looks even angrier, if it is possible. 'You should not have come to this place!' The lich talks with a voice that chills their blood in their veins. Then they feel nothing as the next spell rips every party member's soul apart. There is only eternal darkness for them.

    Wolk
  • SCARY_WIZARDSCARY_WIZARD Member Posts: 1,431
    lunar said:

    Imagine a party manages to drop the ceiling on top of a lich. They are wounded, exhausted but think they have won. But, no. The rubble is blasted away with a powerful magic and the lich rises from the rocks and stones he was buried in, his clothes are even more tattered and torn, but he looks uninjured:how can such frail looking ancient bones survive tons of stone? It is impossible, it is absurd! The party is shocked and can't act as they are paralysed by fear from the eerie red light coming from the empty eyesockets of the lich:he looks even angrier, if it is possible. 'You should not have come to this place!' The lich talks with a voice that chills their blood in their veins. Then they feel nothing as the next spell rips every party member's soul apart. There is only eternal darkness for them.

    HEH HEH, it's a kind of magic!
    *intense stare*
    HEH HEH

    jackjack
  • abacusabacus Member Posts: 1,308
    Wolk said:


    It's why they don't get as much as much HP. It's more about mages being abble to run yelling "Oh S**t!! Oh S**t!!" for longer! :p

    Ah... The patented "Rincewind Defence"...

    iuventasWolk
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