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Let's Talk About Constitution

dustbubsydustbubsy Member Posts: 249
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Apologies for leaving this one for a couple of days.. we’re talking about Constitution this time, the stat that measures a character’s hardiness - their resistance to illness, ability to function without sleep, and general physical health. In the Baldur’s Gate games Constitution only affects a few things, like getting extra hit points at level ups. A very high constitution will cause you to have limited regeneration capibilities.

Also, I wasn’t aware how this worked up to writing this, but the short races get saving throw bonuses based on their Con. From the Baldur’s Gate Wiki:

"Gnomes, Dwarves, and Halflings get bonuses to saving throws based on their constitution, up to a maximum of +5 at 18 constitution. Collectively known as the "shorty bonuses", these bonuses are re-calcuated on level-up. So, while you may qualify for an extra saving throw bonus by using the Manual of Bodily Health, you will not see the benefits until you level up. Gnomes receive this bonus to their Wands and Spells saving throws, while Dwarves and Halflings both have the bonus added to their Death, Wands and Spells saving throws."

Veddy interesting. So, without further ado...

CONSTITUTION SCORES

7: Xan

Elves have a constitution penalty, as we’ll soon see, and Xan is the sickliest of the lot. Any lower and he’d be feeling a hit point penalty. Maybe his health affects his melancholy disposition? Poor thing.

8: Viconia

Next we have Viconia, one of the elven subrace Drow. Very frail, but she has more options to buff herself than Xan, and her dexterity is excellent (19).

9: Garrick, Shar-Teel, Aerie, Haer’Dalis

Another elf and a tiefling (I think Haer has some elven heritage?) here, plus a fey actor. Funny how Aerie, despite losing her wings in an extremely gruesome manner, still has 2 more con than Xan. I’m surprised Shar-Teel has such low Con, given her exceptional 18/58 strength and Amazonian persona. As an aside, from a RP perspective Con should generally be a very important stat for adventurers given all the travel involved.

10: Xzar

Dead average.

11: Faldorn, Quayle

Disappointing low for Faldorn. I would think Druids would have very good con given their outdoorsy lifestyle (don’t they become immune to poison at some point?), but like most of her stats it’s distinctly average. High however for a walking brain like Quayle, and indicative of how the short races are surprisingly hardy (gnomes even get a con bonus in Neverwinter Nights and Icewind Dale 2).

12: Safana, Coran, Alora

Working our way through the average scores, I’m sure the developers just assigned more or less random numbers for most characters. Still, it’s fun (to me) to think up role playing reasons for this or that.

13: Canderous, Osprey, Cernd
Another druid with a disappointing Con.

14: Kivan, Dorn, Neera, Rasaad, Clara, Hexxat

How strange, almost all the Beamdog NPCs are here! No extra HP for these guys, with Dorn feeling this the most as he’s the only one of a warrior class. I would’ve thought Vampires gained supernatural toughness but I guess not.

15: Mordaine, Montaron, Minsc (BG1), Branwen, Eldoth, Skie, Jan

So, Kivan, an elven ranger (outdoorsy warrior) has less con than Mordaine, an elven mage? I think the tutorial NPCs have even more arbitrary scores than most. At 15 you get 1HP bonus per level up. Not really worth it, I would think.

16: Deder, Imoen, Ajantis, Edwin, Dynaheir, Tiax, Minsc (BG2), Yoshimo, Anomen, Nalia, Mazzy, Baeloth

Lots of characters here, just like with 16 dexterity. 2HP bonus per level up. Interesting that Dynaheir originally had more con than Minsc (maybe accounting for his head wound?). Edwin too, with his paltry strength and dex scores, has very respectable constitution. Now, the Invoker (Dynaheir’s class) requires 16 con, while the Conjurer (Edwin’s) requires 15. So some mages have to be really hardy folk to control the forms of energy they specialise in. It makes me look at both of them slightly differently now, as well as Nalia and Imoen.

17: Khalid, Jaheira, Yeslick, Keldorn

Warrior classes get +3HP here. Also, I’m probably reading too much into things here, but spouses Khalid and Jaheira have the same con, as do couple Skie and Eldoth, and one-sided couple Coran and Safana.

18: Sarevok, Wilson

+4HP for warriors. No suprises Sarevok has the perfect score for his race, though I thought Wilson would have a higher score. He still regenerates from what I’ve heard.

19: Arkanis, Korgan

Yep, dwarves are the antithesis of elves in so many ways, and they get awesome Con scores to prove it. I can see Korgan easily surviving a brick house falling on him. Not only does he get +5HP per level, he has a +5 bonus to his saving throws due to being a dwarf. None can stand up to his stamina. Except, maybe...

20: Kagain

“That’s right, yer muttonheads! I win! I’m so tough my wounds close by themselves! Korgan, ye’ve guts, but ye’ve a long way to go till you can match Kagain. Yeslick, shave yer beard. Might as well pass yerself off as a pansy elf if yer gonna have the constitution of halfa one...”


...so how important is Constitution to you? I admit, I always max it out to get the maximum hit points possible, but I’m not sure how useful those extra hit points are in the grand scheme of things.

Can you tell a person's general Constitution by looking at them? Consider that Edwin and Ajantis have the same Con score, as do Skie and Montaron, and Dorn and Neera. If not, then just what conditions the stat?

Another question, does anyone know how many hours characters can go before getting fatigued, going by their Constitution scores? Seems like that might be cool to know.
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Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,760
    Yeaahhh! A new attributes thread, nice!

    For me DEX is more important than CON. In fact, CON is one of the stats I tend to decrease at the character creation if I have to invest points elsewhere. I tend to play a no-reload (or a minimal-reload at least) game, so HP gains are quite random and it seems to me there's practically no differency in having, for i.e., 9 CON and 16 CON when at level 5 and later. I'd better take the guaranteed modificator to AC from DEX than rely on a random HP roll. To be hit less is also a thing here.

    In BG2, however, with the high number of dangerous spells flying around, CON becomes more important, especially in ToB when AC starts to be less important. But we have a girdle of CON that sets this stat at 18 so that all my characters who have 9, 10, 11 and so on CON can get a serious addition to their HP overall.

    I don't know, maybe the aforementioned is connected with the fact I seldomly play as a fighter character, I prefer rogues and casters. Of course, when we speak about a fighter, the more CON the better. My dwarven wizard slayer has 21 CON with the Buckley's Buckler and he is badass. When I roll a fighter, I try to max CON as well as DEX and often decrease STR instead (to 15 or 16).
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,486
    edited April 2014
    bengoshi said:


    When I roll a fighter, I try to max CON as well as DEX and often decrease STR instead (to 15 or 16).

    Me too.

    To me DEX > CON > STR for warriors and for mages. This has to do with the fact that even lower STR warriors (15-16) will hit stuff anyway, thanks to their great Thac0 progression. Mages won't be meleeing anyway so I'd rather invest in their ability to dodge hits, their ranged effectiveness, and in their health.

    Thieves and priests on the other hand have lacklustre Thac0 at the beginning of the game while I do like them to hit enemies. To compensate I tend to give them relatively high STR, at the cost of CON if I don't have enough stat points. In other words: DEX > STR > CON.

    I must say though that I play shorties slightly more often than not. In those cases high CON certainly becomes more appealing (17 to be increased to 18 with the Manual of Bodily Health for max saves), even for non-warriors who don't gain any hitpoint benefits beyond 16 CON. I'm also a no-reloader and though I try never to rely on saves, sometimes they do save my characters...
    Post edited by Blackraven on
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    edited April 2014
    I have a contrarian opinion regarding Constitution.

    At character creation, I ensure that I get the maximum bonus from high Constitution, but it is not such an awesome bonus that I will miss greatly if I have to drop Stat points.

    18 Con only provides +4HP/level for warriors up to L9, +2HP/level for priests up to L9, +2HP/level for rogues and mages up to L10. The bonus HP only amounts to 36HP at most. For reloading games, 36HP for high-level characters may not amount to much. Mages and Druids can protect themselves with magic, which further reduces the need for high hit points. Also, high hit points will only come into play when you are hard-pressed. Say, if you lose about 50HP every encounter, does it matter if you have 100HP or 150HP? The high hit points will not really come into play unless you are losing >100HP. With careful play by going for good AC, having summons to tank, fighting with missiles and spells, maintaining an arsenal of protections on characters and fighting in waves to pick on stragglers instead of taking on everyone at once, the chances of the excess HP coming into play is even lower.

    But I accept that for non-reloading games, every bit of bonus is precious, so having high Constitution is essential. Also, there is some relevance to the shorty races for saving throws (though I am not fond of shorty races in general) which can be very useful early-game and mid-game. I will also emphasize that I do push for Constitution like most players, but if I cannot, I will not cry over it since I do not consider the bonuses particularly spectacular.

    For 20+ Constitution, it sounds nice to have regeneration, but in practice, the rate of regeneration is so slow that it is at best an ability for flavor instead of being a staple.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    Personally unless its a thief or a character using a ranged weapon I'll take constitution over dexterity any day.
  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 99
    Really love these threads, and your RP explanations to why the NPC's have their stats, however, i feel that Constitution shouls somewhat mirror strength, since it is a physical attribute. the amazonian Shar-teel is way to paltry with that huge strength score, i would at least buff her up to 14 like kivan. also is'nt Yeslick kind of weak compared to the other dwarves?
  • dustbubsydustbubsy Member Posts: 249
    booinyoureyes said:

    I always found these discussions interesting from a medical perspective.

    We all agree that intelligence, wisdom and charisma are mental attributes. You go as far as your mind (or brain) can take you.

    We in modern Western societies generally view constitution as a physical attribute. However this is not true for everyone. In some parts of Eastern Medicine (and in those who believe in the approaches recomended by Holistic Medicine) the mind plays just as big a role in healing and hardiness as do the more automated biological mechanisms and neural responses. Meditation and the like has grown in popularity even in the West.

    I personally think this stuff is most likely a bunch of Bantha poodoo, but I am not ready to dismiss it off hand, and many respected biologists and neurologists do give a little credence to aspects of holistic and eastern medicine. Meditation has been shown to help healing (though less than basic sleep, lol). in a fantasy setting based off of human mythology and ancient almost-magical practices, where monks can meditate to fight off disease and infection, this can certainly be the case. Not to mention that Druids can heal with touch.

    So I'm thinking that in this context (D&D/Forgottem Relams) we should view constitution as both a mental and physical trait.

    That's very interesting: I was thinking the same thing. We know that if you are under constant pain (say a Con-draining disease), you will most likely be irritable. Physical influencing the mental. I've heard wisdom being put forward as a kind of "mental constitution" before. So maybe that's how high Wis, average Con druids and the like can live in the wilderness without getting as sick as they should. I mean, one of Cernd's items describes how he meditated in the wilds for days. And a mage loses 1 Con if his Familiar dies, which could symbolise a mental link breaking.
    Jimstrom said:

    also is'nt Yeslick kind of weak compared to the other dwarves?

    I speculated that he's old (it's hard to tell with dwarves though) and I believe Con decreases as you get older? Also, he's been imprisoned for a while, and joins the party already wounded. He was probably starved. 17 is still one of the higher scores overall. His intelligence is another matter however...
  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    "I maintain nonetheless that yin-yang dualism can be overcome. With sufficient enlightenment we can give substance to any distinction: mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Remember, enlightenment is a function of willpower, not of physical strength. "

    "What do I care for your suffering? Pain, even agony, is no more than information before the senses, data fed to the computer of the mind. The lesson is simple: you have received the information, now act on it. Take control of the input and you shall become master of the output. "

    "Learn to overcome the crass demands of flesh and bone, for they warp the matrix through which we perceive the world. Extend your awareness outward, beyond the self of body, to embrace the self of group and the self of humanity. The goals of the group and the greater race are transcendent, and to embrace them is to achieve enlightenment. "

    Quotes from the lovely Video Game Alpha Centauri, a strategy video game made back in 1999, by a brilliant but horrible man that lead one of the factions you could play.

    In real life, I remain skeptic about the benefits of meditation (though it does calm me), some Eastern medicine, and the idea that the mind can heal the body (if it can, I really wish mine would get to work). Going by the rules of D&D, though- specifically, both the monk class and the psionic class- I think in D&D, such things *do* work. As said, a monk can meditate to heal themselves. There's something to that.

    The quotes above might help guide an evil character with a frail body but still a high constitution: someone who might be think and 'weak', but still surprisingly resilient due to their strength of will. To believe you will not get sick, and then truly not get sick... I think there's something to that, though it's beyond my understanding.
  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 99
    edited April 2014
    Hmmm, maybe if we see constitution as an mental ability of how the characters psyche is portrayed, it suddenly make sense that shar-teel is an 9 and Xzar is a 10 both are psychoes with really unstable minds, Xan is depressed, Viconia has been chased nearly all her life, Faldorn is unstable.

    But characters like Tiax and Edwin is far from sane either, but i think Tiax is confident in his faith in Cyric, and Edwin in his intelligence.

    Montaron is also a pyscho but compared to Xzar and Shar-teel he feel quite sane and confident. It's quite interesting to see that confident women seem to have a high constitution, while more unstable have low constitution.
    Post edited by Jimstrom on
  • dustbubsydustbubsy Member Posts: 249
    Hmm, maybe, but I think Viconia is pretty strong mentally. At least in BG2. I agree with the rest.
  • AristilliusAristillius Member Posts: 873
    @booinyoureyes‌
    There is absolutely some merit in the concept of body and mind somehow influencing each other - but the concrete effects are largely unknow. Especially interesting to me is the documented effects of recovery after surgery, this review article sums up that there seems to be some correlation between psychological factors and recovery post surgery:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0020306

    And then there is the writing before and after surgery, which is pretty well documented:

    http://healthland.time.com/2013/07/13/how-writing-heals-wounds-of-both-the-mind-and-body/

    In essence, if you write about your feelings before and after surgery, many people experience a significant faster recovery. Quite interesting :)
  • JimstromJimstrom Member Posts: 99
    dustbubsy said:

    Hmm, maybe, but I think Viconia is pretty strong mentally. At least in BG2. I agree with the rest.

    Well you said it yourself, she has quite high wisdom and faith in Shar, which make her more confident, though she is an elf, and elfs tend to have low constituion except in Mordaine and Baeloth's cases.

  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,344
    While many of the attributes seem relatively self-explanatory, I've always wondered a bit about constitution and what exactly it signifies. Is it physical hardiness in terms of how long you can run or march at high speed carrying heavy loads, or for how many days in a row you can be subjected to heavy manual labour? Or is it more like almost never getting sick in spite of infection-promoting conditions, or rather being able to function at a high level for several days without sleep?

    Or if it represents all of these things, it would seem that they are only slightly related to each other (physical condition and health) or not related at all (reaction when sleep deprived).

    As for the mental aspect mentioned by @booinyoureyes‌ and @Aristillius‌, I've though about it a bit as well. Normally when you hear reports from people who subject themselves to draining situations (be it triathlon competitions or Navy SEAL boot camp) they more often than not tend to talk about how it's really a mental struggle rather than a physical one. Presumably, this notion regards the outlook once you're closing up on your physical limits - hence for an untrained person, running a marathon won't be a mental struggle but rather a purely physical one until he gets into the kind of shape where his body can handle that sort of prolonged activity.

    At that point, when you feel like you more than anything want to stop, lay down and catch your breath but your body is still capable of carrying on, the mental aspect ostensibly comes into play and can be said to directly affect a person's hardiness. But then again, this assumes that the outcome isn't just a result of a slight difference in actual physical capacity as well.

    As for medical health it seems more complex. There's a patient's actual medical state, and there's the way that patient experiences his medical state, at least for any kind of illness where the two can be separated. The latter is extremely individual and can be affected by a lot of factors, e.g. placebo, whereas the former doesn't lend itself to examination just as readily.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    edited April 2014
    Constitution to me isn't that important when i'm playing a game where it's important not to get hit to start with. The only character in my team that would require a good CON score would be my front line fighters. I regularly play with Viconia and her low CON doesn't affect me in the least as i place her on the back line.

    Constitution is also one of those stats that are either very good or useless. Viconia with her 8 CON get no bonus to health, but neither does Cernd with his 13. CON is actually a pretty decent 'dump' stat because 7-14 is the same so it doesn't matter which you pick unless you're going to use a tome on 14.

    If you're not playing a fighter class (Ranger,Paladin,Barbarian,Fighter) having more than 16 CON gives you nothing at all, unless you're playing a shorty race.

    15 CON : +1 HP/Level
    16 CON : +2 HP/Level
    -------------------
    Fighters, Rangers, Barbarians, Paladins continue to gain bonus.
    -------------------
    17 CON : +3 HP/Level
    18 CON : +4 HP/Level
    19 CON : +5 HP/Level
    20 CON : +5 HP/Level/Minor Regeneration.

    So if you're playing a human rogue you don't want higher CON than 16 because you won't get anything out of it. If you're playing a half-orc rogue you might want to go for 19 CON because that way with a tome you'll reach 20 CON and get your regeneration.

    Shorties (Halfling, Dwarf, Gnome) should always go for as high constitution as possible because of their saving throw bonus.

    Dwarf's and Half-Orcs want to go for 19 because with the tome from BG1 you'll reach 20 CON and start to regenerate. You might not notice this regeneration that much when you're walking around with your party, but when you rest that party member will most of the time regenerate most if not all of his health while your other characters will only gain 1-2 HP.

    Because it's so easy to get a good roll for CHARNAME i'll always go for 16/18/19 CON scores depending on what class and race i'm playing. But i'm not going to decline an NPC in my party because of a low CON score, unless it's a fighter type and even then it's very rare for them to have bad constitution (Shar'teel, Dorn).

    There is also a belt in BG2 that raise your constitution to 18 for 8 hours. And the potion of fortitude will also raise your constitution. This potion might not look that good at first glance, but if you give it to a level 5 Dorn he will gain 20 health from it. Give it to a level 7 Dorn and he'll gain 28 health from it.

    You should also take the tome that you get in BG1 into consideration when you make your character. Because if you're playing a rogue, cleric, mage or druid and you're going to give the tome to yourself, you might want to create that character with 15 constitution, that way when you get the tome you'll reach 16 and have the best possible CON score you can get instead of ending up with 17 and not getting anything at all from it. You're not missing out on anything from giving CHARNAME 15 CON or getting the book late, because once you get the book it'll give you the correct amount of HP depending on your level.

    So getting the tome at level 1 will not be any different from getting it at level 10.
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    SionIV said:

    So getting the tome at level 1 will not be any different from getting it at level 10.

    Well, except that if you get the bonus at level 1 then you will have it for all 10 levels. If you only get the bonus at level 10, then you've had to struggle through the previous 9 levels with less hitpoints (which is all of BG1 and a little bit of BG2).

    Same outcome at the end, but a rather different journey to get there.

  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    karnor00 said:

    SionIV said:

    So getting the tome at level 1 will not be any different from getting it at level 10.

    Well, except that if you get the bonus at level 1 then you will have it for all 10 levels. If you only get the bonus at level 10, then you've had to struggle through the previous 9 levels with less hitpoints (which is all of BG1 and a little bit of BG2).

    Same outcome at the end, but a rather different journey to get there.

    The bonus will at the most be 1HP/Level. So if you're struggling it's not because of that. Your character will not die a lot more on level 6 because s/he has 6 HP less.
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    I don't see constitution as all that important, except for tanks and those on the front lines of battle (and I rarely play as those classes). I usually keep it around 14, as a precaution in case my mages or thieves become the focus of enemy attacks.

    On a side note, is constitution important for rangers? With the exception of Stalkers, rangers are usually on the fringe of battles and from what I know con doesn't give any bonuses to ranged attacks.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Rangers don't equal ranged combat.
  • SionIVSionIV Member Posts: 2,689
    demented said:

    I don't see constitution as all that important, except for tanks and those on the front lines of battle (and I rarely play as those classes). I usually keep it around 14, as a precaution in case my mages or thieves become the focus of enemy attacks.

    On a side note, is constitution important for rangers? With the exception of Stalkers, rangers are usually on the fringe of battles and from what I know con doesn't give any bonuses to ranged attacks.

    Would just like to point out that you get absolutely nothing from having 14 CON.

    7-14 = No bonus at all (except if you're shorty)

    So you can either put it down to 7,8,9 or just go with 15-18 for 1HP/Level.
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    SionIV said:

    demented said:

    I don't see constitution as all that important, except for tanks and those on the front lines of battle (and I rarely play as those classes). I usually keep it around 14, as a precaution in case my mages or thieves become the focus of enemy attacks.

    On a side note, is constitution important for rangers? With the exception of Stalkers, rangers are usually on the fringe of battles and from what I know con doesn't give any bonuses to ranged attacks.

    Would just like to point out that you get absolutely nothing from having 14 CON.

    7-14 = No bonus at all (except if you're shorty)

    So you can either put it down to 7,8,9 or just go with 15-18 for 1HP/Level.
    I did not know that. I've never really paid that much attention to constitution, unless playing an melee character on the front lines. Thanks, this'll result in fewer wasted stat points.
    FinneousPJ said:

    Rangers don't equal ranged combat.

    I did say with the exception of Stalkers. Archers and Beastmasters are more likely to be ranged. Even if you only use Rangers in melee combat it still doesn't make sense for the game to tell you CON is the most important stat, even about DEX.

    Then again, intelligence isn't important to Mages and charisma isn't important to Bards so it doesn't really matter.

  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    edited April 2014
    demented said:

    Then again, intelligence isn't important to Mages and charisma isn't important to Bards so it doesn't really matter.

    Mages directly benefit from intelligence, gaining more spell slots per level in their book and increasing their chances to learn spells, so you've confused me there.
    As to Bardic Charisma, there is no class-specific benefit, but obviously there is the minimum requirement of 15.
    Post edited by jackjack on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @jacobtan Of course the situation is quite similar across the range of attributes in 2E.

    @jackjack That's not what I said :O
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    jackjack said:

    FinneousPJ said:

    Then again, intelligence isn't important to Mages and charisma isn't important to Bards so it doesn't really matter.

    Mages directly benefit from intelligence, gaining more spell slots per level in their book and increasing their chances to learn spells, so you've confused me there.
    As to Bardic Charisma, there is no class-specific benefit, but obviously there is the minimum requirement of 15.
    There is some misinformation on intelligence in Baldur's Gate. I know that the manual was flawed in some of it's suggestions on how intelligence influences magic and a lot of websites base their descriptions of intelligence on this. There are a lot of threads about this, but it's been a while since I've read them (and of course I can't find any when I need to). I do believe intelligence increases a mage's chance to learn spells, but I can't remember if it influences the amount of spell slots you gain per level.

    Still, that was poorly said. It's important, but not as important as it's supposed to be. In fact I've come across places where it was suggested than in BG2 Wisdom should be the prime requisite due to the wish spell being far more important than the ability to scribe spells.
  • jacobtanjacobtan Member Posts: 655
    @FinneousPJ‌ I would think it depends on how many hairs people are willing to split ;)
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    SionIV said:

    karnor00 said:

    SionIV said:

    So getting the tome at level 1 will not be any different from getting it at level 10.

    Well, except that if you get the bonus at level 1 then you will have it for all 10 levels. If you only get the bonus at level 10, then you've had to struggle through the previous 9 levels with less hitpoints (which is all of BG1 and a little bit of BG2).

    Same outcome at the end, but a rather different journey to get there.

    The bonus will at the most be 1HP/Level. So if you're struggling it's not because of that. Your character will not die a lot more on level 6 because s/he has 6 HP less.
    That argument doesn't make much sense. Having 6hp more absolutely means you will die less. If it didn't then all players would reduce their constitution to 3 in the knowledge that they won't die any more often...

    However, the significance of those hitpoints will very much depend on the character in question. For a level 6 fighter with 18 con and max hp on level up, going from 84 to 90 hitpoints isn't going to be hugely significant.

    For a mage with 12 con and average hp on level up, going from 15 to 21 hitpoints is a very significant increase.
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    edited April 2014
    FinneousPJ said:

    @jackjack That's not what I said :O

    Edit: Derp, such are the pitfalls of my inability to properly cut & paste. Sorry about that!
    I meant to quote @demented‌
    Hopefully I've fixed rather than exacerbate my mistake…
    demented said:

    There is some misinformation on intelligence in Baldur's Gate. I know that the manual was flawed in some of it's suggestions on how intelligence influences magic and a lot of websites base their descriptions of intelligence on this. There are a lot of threads about this, but it's been a while since I've read them (and of course I can't find any when I need to). I do believe intelligence increases a mage's chance to learn spells, but I can't remember if it influences the amount of spell slots you gain per level.

    Still, that was poorly said. It's important, but not as important as it's supposed to be. In fact I've come across places where it was suggested than in BG2 Wisdom should be the prime requisite due to the wish spell being far more important than the ability to scribe spells.

    It doesn't affect the number of spells you can memorize per level, but as far as I'm aware, it does affect how many different ones you can scribe into your spell book. My wording was also ambiguous.
    Edit #34768: Spelling!
    Post edited by jackjack on
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    edited April 2014
    @jackjack What I said is Rangers don't equal ranged combat. You quoted me as saying "Then again, intelligence isn't important to Mages and charisma isn't important to Bards so it doesn't really matter."

    EDIT: I see now that's what @demented said, so you probably misquoted somehow.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,317
    edited April 2014
    jackjack said:


    It doesn't affect the numer of spells you can memorize per level, but as far as I'm aware, it does affect how many different ones you can scribe into your spell book. My wording was also ambiguous.

    To add to this for mages it affects the max level of spells you can know (without outside help) in both enhanced editions. For instance without help from a potion or item a mage with only 9 intelligence couldn't learn greater than level 4 spells.
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