It's hard to justify RP-wise, certainly, but you've got a great idea there. Some classes lend themselves to RP-sensible dual classing better than others. Take the classic overpowered überkit, kensai/mage: kensai are all about self-discipline, so the temporary skill loss could be written off as an oath to never touch a sword again until they've reached their goal. Priests also make sense in a similar light, with their gods withholding favors until they meet their potential.
As a man who has changed careers, then changed back I think the dual classing system makes a lot of sense. When you get bored at a job and find something else that fascinates you, you tend to focus on it and ignore your previous role. To really get to grips with a new skill takes dedication and so you have little time to devote to other interests.
As for getting all your abilities back once you reach a certain level I found that it was pretty easy to pick up a career which I had been proficient at before. Because it isn't as hard as starting on a new career, you can give an equal amount of time and energy to both roles.
Any class to wizard dual classing can be put down to not knowing about the chances of a terrible self electrocution if you cast a lightning bolt while wearing a huge metal sword... But get to a certain level and you can get the lightening bolt to shoot out your sword.
Any class to bard. Look, I'm just learning to play this Banjo, but give me time and I'll play it wearing full plate with my familiar on percussion...
JUST GIVE ME YOUR DUAL CLASS ROLE PLAYING PROBLEMS AND I WILL GIVE YOU A REASON!
I don't know about RP wise, but at least, real life wise, makes perfect sense. You try to get some education and start working on a field of your choice, you get poor results or are otherwise hindered from getting it through and mastered, and change profession! Also, you can effectively combine skills from both, once you mastered your second field of choice...
Example: Butcher, and Cook. Philosophy teacher, and Latin Teacher. Mathematics, and chemistry professor. In any order. And so on...
Yes, but when you are choosing the new profession your former skills doesn't dissapear instantly without a trace. They are decreasing gradually, as basically what your body does is adjust to your daily routines and needs.
So, it doesn't make much sense, even in real life.
I think the way PnP does it makes more sense. You still have access to the skills of your old class, but if and when you use them, you don't progress in your second class (no XP for that encounter). For example, you don't learn more about being a mage from hacking at someone with a sword. Baldur's Gate only approximates this, leading to the jarring effect of not even being able to make use of your first profession until a certain point.
Also, in RL, i think it's quite the opposite : what makes the interest of changing career path is that you will benefit from your previous career experience, even while learning the new one.
@JackJack Perfect answer to this thread... But lets roleplay...
Fighter dual-ling to thief...
So So So many ideas...
Idea 1) I was a walking behemoth of metal whirling death... But I've killed one to many monsters... And now there after me, hunting me down, I know their after me! But they aren't gonna get me see... I'm going to stick to the shadows, and when I'm ready, I'll stalk them until BAM! I'll put my katana through their backs...
Idea 2) That lightening bolt in the middle of that field... Nearly cooked me in my armour! Have the gods left me? I'm not sure... But until I find out... I'm sticking to leather armour... May need a whole new way of killing monsters... Hey, maybe if I creep around the back...
Idea 3) The thug look is really not doing my street cred any favours... And Oh! THE EMBARRASSMENT when I couldn't force the lock and then Immy undid it with a flick of her wrist... Well, I got smarts... I can fiddle a lock pick... and set traps... Uhm... Time to start learning how set a bear trap... I'll have take this armour off... And my two handed sword is really getting in the way here...
Thief to fighter
Idea 1) Damn... Kicked out the thief guild. Can't even look like a thief until I can prove my innocence... I mean, how was I to know I dishonestly purchased that item... And that I should have just honestly stole it?And I should be ashamed of my actions? So confused. Anyways, I need to be visible at all times until this stuff is sorted out...
Idea 2) No more hiding, No more stabbing in the back. THIS TIME THEY CAN SEE MY FACE AS I KILL 'EM! I need to increase my kill count. Lets turn a single stab into a whirling slicer dicer! Immy is trying to persuade me that this is just crazy... Well she may talk me around in the end... But if Minsc keeps on getting 80% of the kills, this lil god of murder will go crazy...
Idea 3) That last battle I got 28 arrows stuck in me! AM I STUPID ! Next time, I'm gonna wear full plate and carry a huge shield... MAKE ME LOOK LIKE A PORCUPINE NOW BAD GUYS! Only prob... Can't seem to find traps anymore through these little slits they call eye holes in helmets... Perhaps, if I can use the grill in my helm to partition my field of view and work through an area at a time... It'll take a bit of time to work out... But I think I can set a logarithmic search pattern in place... It will take ages to learn how to do that instinctively though...
...
I have not included the plumber story or the one about the heron...
Good stories @Anduin. Just some questions, is the character too stupid to remove the helmet and look for traps or remove his gauntlets when there is need to pick a lock? I find it almost impossible to justify a thief-> fighter (well I find it almost impossible to justify dual-class at all). When it comes to fighter-> thief all you lose is proficiencies and heavy armor so it's easier. Thieves might use a different fighting technique and thus you need to re-learn using a weapon type, although I still find it hard to belive he wouldn't have some use of his previous knowledge of using weapons. He should still be able to use heavy armor if the need arise.
@Freche Yes he is stupid. People who have to ask if they are stupid generally are... Wisdom is not needed for thieves or fighters so it can be imagined easily as low... I agree, it would be wiser just to take the helmet off However his int score must be high talking about logarithmic search patterns...
@lolien I love comments that spread love. This forum is full of love. Feel proud that you are spreading that love like a warm butter knife gliding over crumpets, spreading golden buttery goodness.
I just had to follow your lovely comment with some golden syrup of my own...
I just love the love on this thread, and useful too, I've been debating whether dual classing is that useful, but I'm too new to the game to really know. How come only humans can do it though?
Well Elves are long lived so can train as all three, perhaps focusing on only one when they have spent a few decades deciding...
But this does not really sit well with the other races... So... Errm...
Dwarves pick up skills as easy as they pick up pick axes.
Gnomes find illusions so easy... that even if they haven't multi classed... They are still illusionists hidden under an illusion...
Halflings don't do things by half... ...
LAME!
Humans are the only class that can dual for the same reason an accountant can't become a teacher straight away. They need training... But given time, they can teach accounting...
I open this thread just because i saw the last comment was Anduin's... And i haven't disappointed:)
Ha ha, same here. I was disappointed though; he's still on topic. I had expected a thesis on how were-bunnies should be able to dual to were-bears without taking a hit to charisma.
Thief makes the least sense actually. 'I'd really love to open that chest but I'm having trouble learning how to wield my halberd right now so I can't help you.' Or better yet, 'Sorry you just got fried by that fireball trap but I was pondering how to cast reflect image and didn't see it.'
Imoen's POV: "Mr. Fancy-Pants Charname Fighter-Mage is so hung up on how good he looks in splint mail that the only thing we are ever gonna get out of him in the way of Wizardry is Wands!! I also think he doesn't quite trust the Shield Amulet. Whatever, even though he IS very good with a bow...
If somebody doesn't learn this stuff we are all gonna get splattered and maybe we can muddle through the hopefully minor traps for the next 100K full-party XP. Anyhow, I can do this, we need it and Coran says he thinks he is at least fair-to-middlin' at Trap Finding, etc.
And also I feel really bad about what I said to Dynaheir just before she decided for some reason to go all the way around the other side of the cliff, where all the Xvarts were waiting, bloodthirsty little freak-buggers!!
Comments
As for getting all your abilities back once you reach a certain level I found that it was pretty easy to pick up a career which I had been proficient at before. Because it isn't as hard as starting on a new career, you can give an equal amount of time and energy to both roles.
Any class to bard. Look, I'm just learning to play this Banjo, but give me time and I'll play it wearing full plate with my familiar on percussion...
JUST GIVE ME YOUR DUAL CLASS ROLE PLAYING PROBLEMS AND I WILL GIVE YOU A REASON!
...
I have never had a problem with this...
Fighter/thief and thief/fighter.
Example: Butcher, and Cook. Philosophy teacher, and Latin Teacher. Mathematics, and chemistry professor. In any order. And so on...
So, it doesn't make much sense, even in real life.
Also, in RL, i think it's quite the opposite : what makes the interest of changing career path is that you will benefit from your previous career experience, even while learning the new one.
Fighter dual-ling to thief...
So So So many ideas...
Idea 1)
I was a walking behemoth of metal whirling death... But I've killed one to many monsters... And now there after me, hunting me down, I know their after me! But they aren't gonna get me see... I'm going to stick to the shadows, and when I'm ready, I'll stalk them until BAM! I'll put my katana through their backs...
Idea 2)
That lightening bolt in the middle of that field... Nearly cooked me in my armour! Have the gods left me? I'm not sure... But until I find out... I'm sticking to leather armour... May need a whole new way of killing monsters... Hey, maybe if I creep around the back...
Idea 3)
The thug look is really not doing my street cred any favours... And Oh! THE EMBARRASSMENT when I couldn't force the lock and then Immy undid it with a flick of her wrist... Well, I got smarts... I can fiddle a lock pick... and set traps... Uhm... Time to start learning how set a bear trap... I'll have take this armour off... And my two handed sword is really getting in the way here...
Thief to fighter
Idea 1) Damn... Kicked out the thief guild. Can't even look like a thief until I can prove my innocence... I mean, how was I to know I dishonestly purchased that item... And that I should have just honestly stole it?And I should be ashamed of my actions? So confused. Anyways, I need to be visible at all times until this stuff is sorted out...
Idea 2) No more hiding, No more stabbing in the back. THIS TIME THEY CAN SEE MY FACE AS I KILL 'EM! I need to increase my kill count. Lets turn a single stab into a whirling slicer dicer! Immy is trying to persuade me that this is just crazy... Well she may talk me around in the end... But if Minsc keeps on getting 80% of the kills, this lil god of murder will go crazy...
Idea 3) That last battle I got 28 arrows stuck in me! AM I STUPID ! Next time, I'm gonna wear full plate and carry a huge shield... MAKE ME LOOK LIKE A PORCUPINE NOW BAD GUYS! Only prob... Can't seem to find traps anymore through these little slits they call eye holes in helmets... Perhaps, if I can use the grill in my helm to partition my field of view and work through an area at a time... It'll take a bit of time to work out... But I think I can set a logarithmic search pattern in place... It will take ages to learn how to do that instinctively though...
...
I have not included the plumber story or the one about the heron...
Just some questions, is the character too stupid to remove the helmet and look for traps or remove his gauntlets when there is need to pick a lock?
I find it almost impossible to justify a thief-> fighter (well I find it almost impossible to justify dual-class at all).
When it comes to fighter-> thief all you lose is proficiencies and heavy armor so it's easier. Thieves might use a different fighting technique and thus you need to re-learn using a weapon type, although I still find it hard to belive he wouldn't have some use of his previous knowledge of using weapons. He should still be able to use heavy armor if the need arise.
@lolien I love comments that spread love. This forum is full of love. Feel proud that you are spreading that love like a warm butter knife gliding over crumpets, spreading golden buttery goodness.
I just had to follow your lovely comment with some golden syrup of my own...
But this does not really sit well with the other races... So... Errm...
Dwarves pick up skills as easy as they pick up pick axes.
Gnomes find illusions so easy... that even if they haven't multi classed... They are still illusionists hidden under an illusion...
Halflings don't do things by half...
...
LAME!
Humans are the only class that can dual for the same reason an accountant can't become a teacher straight away. They need training... But given time, they can teach accounting...
If somebody doesn't learn this stuff we are all gonna get splattered and maybe we can muddle through the hopefully minor traps for the next 100K full-party XP. Anyhow, I can do this, we need it and Coran says he thinks he is at least fair-to-middlin' at Trap Finding, etc.
And also I feel really bad about what I said to Dynaheir just before she decided for some reason to go all the way around the other side of the cliff, where all the Xvarts were waiting, bloodthirsty little freak-buggers!!
<------- There Castle!