I haven't played Baldur's Gate as long as some of you, but I can't imagine any fighter being better than a Half-Orc Kensai. I rolled one with all stats maxed except Int and Wis (including 19 Str), and ended up roflstomping everything. I went into the Bandit area solo and wiped everyone out. I was wielding Icingdeath and Twinkle and ended up deleting the character because it just wasn't any fun. Everything he swung at ended up in bits. One shot.
Oh, the question is which one is your favorite? For some reason I thought it was asking about power. In any case, I play Wild Mage. If I played Fighter it would be Kensai just for the rolfstomp.
While i do enjoy the Barbarian and pure fighter, i'll have to go with the berserker. Arcane casters are the most difficult fights in the game and a Berserker turns these fights into a breeze.
While the other classes are powerful, none of them come close to the Berserker/Barbarian one hit wonder button with their rage. I prefer the Berserker rage over Barbarian because it grants immunity to Imprisonment and betters your AC instead of making it worse.
Your naked Kensai is a whirlwind of destruction, but only requires one hold spell to end your game. The Barbarian/Berserker can right from the start fight with the most powerful arcane casters and even defend against vampires before you gain any items that make you immune to level drain.
Your naked Kensai is a whirlwind of destruction, but only requires one hold spell to end your game. .
That's why Xan is the best friend of a Half-Orc Kensai .
Anytime he gets held Xan casts shield and charges in with his moonblade. Later on he can dispel it completely. I had him and him only (for support) and all my bases were covered. If you are talking solo, then yea, I see your point. But even with a Berserker you are going to need Xan or Jaheira for when you become winded.
Actually the game-ending SionVI was surely talking about is Imprisonment, since Charm only ends the game when you don't have control over any of your characters.
Actually the game-ending SionVI was surely talking about is Imprisonment, since Charm only ends the game when you don't have control over any of your characters.
Even so, what a Kensai lacks a good support mage can make up for - and I really don't see how a Berserker can do any better solo when every time he gets winded he needs someone else for support.
Of course I am still fairly new to BG and have admittedly never played a Berserker so my logic could be entirely off-base and wrong.
Actually the game-ending SionVI was surely talking about is Imprisonment, since Charm only ends the game when you don't have control over any of your characters.
Oh, I see. The way I took it, was that he would be held and unable to defend himself and seeing as how he's a glass cannon who relies on killing enemies quickly, if he was held with such low AC he would be killed in quick order.
Even so, what a Kensai lacks a good support mage can make up for - and I really don't see how a Berserker can do any better solo when every time he gets winded he needs someone else for support.
Of course I am still fairly new to BG and have admittedly never played a Berserker so my logic could be entirely off-base and wrong.
I really like the Kensai, but I just enjoy Berkserkers much more. And really, when you get winded, the penalties are minimum, and you mostly use their Rage ability against casters, so... They don't have good AC nor THAC0 so it does not change much
Imprisonment is a level 9 spell so, yeah, I can't blame you It's really, really deadly, since it's a no-save, MR bypassing insta-kill, SCS (the best AI/difficulty improving mod for BG) makes enemy caster target everyone in the party but not the PC/Player1, just because of how deadly it is.
Oh, I see. The way I took it, was that he would be held and unable to defend himself and seeing as how he's a glass cannon who relies on killing enemies quickly, if he was held with such low AC he would be killed in quick order.
When you are held, no matter how much AC you have, you are always hit. Kensai can rely on items in BG1, and in BG2, if you dual-classed to Mage or Thief, Mages can become immune to some weapon types and Thieves get a High Level Ability that lets them wear every single item in the game (not the stat-restricted ones though).
@Stormvessel, I think it's a matter of different playstyles. I'm a pretty defensive player (a risk-taker, but always one with potions and protections at hand). Due to that preference I would pick the Berserk ability over the Kensai's offensive power any day. However, there are many people who favor the Kensai. It's a difficult discussion, especially when dualling to Mage comes into question. The Mage will be able to use Abjuration magic to protect him/herself, reducing to some extent the value of the Berserk ability.
I see. I didn't know held persons were always hit, I thought that was the case for sleep. I learned something new - thnx.
In any case, Xan is mean with a shield spell and potions of fortitude. To me that totally makes up for his lack of Fireball. I really like him as support. He was surprisingly efficient even with a low thac0. He bailed my Kensai out many times. Of course, eventually the game got too easy regardless. I digress a bit, but I really like Xan.
@Stormvessel actually in BGEE any figther type can have the same offensive capability as the kensai, by using the gauntlets of weapon expertise (2 pairs available early in the game). Their bonus make a difference only at very high levels, which are not reachable before SOA.
The real problem in your case was that you used a half orc (19 str) and dual wielded (not accounted for in the original game design) OP weapons.
@Stormvessel actually in BGEE any figther type can have the same offensive capability as the kensai, by using the gauntlets of weapon expertise (2 pairs available early in the game). Their bonus make a difference only at very high levels, which are not reachable before SOA.
The real problem in your case was that you used a half orc (19 str) and dual wielded (not accounted for in the original game design) OP weapons.
I agree with what you said about the original game not being designed for such offensive power. I think that was a good point.
But I respectfully disagree that the Kensai bonus only makes a difference at "very high levels". Granted, the difference becomes more pronounced as the levels wear on (at least in theory), but the difference is still there even in the first game because I've tried both. Think about this: If there is no difference in offensive potential between Kensai and other fighters even at early levels, then why is the Kensai so good for dual-classing? Some may argue that the difference is even greater at early levels (which make Kensai prime for D/C) because a pure Kensai lacks defense in the end-game whereas a D/C Kensai (Mage or Thief w/ Use All) would not.
Dual-Classing is always done at level 13, which is hardly a "very high level".
However, even at level 13 the kensai gets : +4 THACO/damage the berserker, using the gauntlets of expertise gets +1/+2. With rage he gets +3/+4. With gauntlets of extraordinary spec he gets 1/2 extra APR. So i would hardly call that a decisive offensive advantage.
Since the berserker is much stronger defensively (rage) and can use helmets (helm of balduran, helm of vhailor)
To have a significative advantage the kensai would have to dual at 18 or 21. But this is waaaay to late (unless you use jacobtan technique)
Kensai is good for dual classing because the Fighter is good for dual classing.
The K/M can wear Robes, so all it really loses are Gauntlets while the K/T gets UAI.
So you get two combinations, one being somewhat better than the normal F/M dual the other being absolutely better than the F/T dual once HLA's kick in. So it's good.
But it has little to do with the Kensai but more to do that the F/M dual is one of the best duals in the game while the F/T gives you a Thief, which has a gigantic benefit to the party, that can do something else other than Thief stuff. All the Kensai part does is make the F/M and F/T duals slightly better.
However, even at level 13 the kensai gets : +4 THACO/damage the berserker, using the gauntlets of expertise gets +1/+2. With rage he gets +3/+4. With gauntlets of extraordinary spec he gets 1/2 extra APR. So i would hardly call that a decisive offensive advantage.
Since the berserker is much stronger defensively (rage) and can use helmets (helm of balduran, helm of vhailor)
To have a significative advantage the kensai would have to dual at 18 or 21. But this is waaaay to late (unless you use jacobtan technique)
Meh, dual-classing to Mage never made any sense to me anyway. It seems more about minimizing the Kensai weakness rather than capitalizing on it's strength. While a Kensai/Mage wielding Celestial Fury and two pips in single-weapon style would be really powerful, personally I think the Kensai should dual to Thief for the Use Any epic as well as Backstabbing with Kai (unless Kai is unavailable w/ backstab. Never actually tested it myself).
I prefer F17/M25 for high-level dual-class F(K)/M. Fighter saving throws max out at F17. The extra combat bonuses (+5 THAC0, +1 damage) are useful against Ascension bosses. Mage HLAs max out at M25. M26 is a dead zone with no extra spell slots or HLAs. M24 loses out on one L8 spell slot on top of the HLA. However, I have seen someone on another forum playing with F19/M24. It is just that I want that additional L8 spell slot for my favorite opening combat sequence.
I agree that KT is the way to go rather than KM for UAI and huge backstab (although the FMT is a better backstabber IMO thanks to mislead and critical strike) Berserker is better for dualing to mage.
(although the FMT is a better backstabber IMO thanks to mislead and critical strike)
MY K/C/A was probably the best backstabber form history, Kai+backstab x7+Mislead+Critical Strike=PROFIT! I was thinking about starting another run with a PC like that.
tbh I kinda prefer my kensai to be a pure class kensai. I don't really like the idea of dualing him to a mage.
It's like... you spend your entire life becoming a "sword saint", mastering the use of your weapon, training day in and day out to make it a piece of your body and an extension of your soul....
then all of the sudden out of nowhere one day you're like "Eff this, I'm going to Hogwarts"?
tbh I kinda prefer my kensai to be a pure class kensai. I don't really like the idea of dualing him to a mage.
It's like... you spend your entire life becoming a "sword saint", mastering the use of your weapon, training day in and day out to make it a piece of your body and an extension of your soul....
then all of the sudden out of nowhere one day you're like "Eff this, I'm going to Hogwarts"?
It's like... you spend your entire life becoming a "sword saint", mastering the use of your weapon, training day in and day out to make it a piece of your body and an extension of your soul....
Then after getting crushed by the Adamantite golem, Firkraag, the greater werewolf and Mencar you're like "Eff this no armor or gloves shit, i'm getting protection spells"?
Meh, dual-classing to Mage never made any sense to me anyway. It seems more about minimizing the Kensai weakness rather than capitalizing on it's strength.
It was about taking the F>M, realizing the Kensai added bonuses on top of it and had negligible disadvantages. It was never about making a K>M it was about making a better F>M
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While the other classes are powerful, none of them come close to the Berserker/Barbarian one hit wonder button with their rage. I prefer the Berserker rage over Barbarian because it grants immunity to Imprisonment and betters your AC instead of making it worse.
Your naked Kensai is a whirlwind of destruction, but only requires one hold spell to end your game. The Barbarian/Berserker can right from the start fight with the most powerful arcane casters and even defend against vampires before you gain any items that make you immune to level drain.
Half Orc Berserker or Barbarian.
Anytime he gets held Xan casts shield and charges in with his moonblade. Later on he can dispel it completely. I had him and him only (for support) and all my bases were covered. If you are talking solo, then yea, I see your point. But even with a Berserker you are going to need Xan or Jaheira for when you become winded.
Of course I am still fairly new to BG and have admittedly never played a Berserker so my logic could be entirely off-base and wrong.
And really, when you get winded, the penalties are minimum, and you mostly use their Rage ability against casters, so... They don't have good AC nor THAC0 so it does not change much
Imprisonment is a level 9 spell so, yeah, I can't blame you
It's really, really deadly, since it's a no-save, MR bypassing insta-kill, SCS (the best AI/difficulty improving mod for BG) makes enemy caster target everyone in the party but not the PC/Player1, just because of how deadly it is. When you are held, no matter how much AC you have, you are always hit. Kensai can rely on items in BG1, and in BG2, if you dual-classed to Mage or Thief, Mages can become immune to some weapon types and Thieves get a High Level Ability that lets them wear every single item in the game (not the stat-restricted ones though).
In any case, Xan is mean with a shield spell and potions of fortitude. To me that totally makes up for his lack of Fireball. I really like him as support. He was surprisingly efficient even with a low thac0. He bailed my Kensai out many times. Of course, eventually the game got too easy regardless. I digress a bit, but I really like Xan.
I think I will try Berserker next.
actually in BGEE any figther type can have the same offensive capability as the kensai, by using the gauntlets of weapon expertise (2 pairs available early in the game). Their bonus make a difference only at very high levels, which are not reachable before SOA.
The real problem in your case was that you used a half orc (19 str) and dual wielded (not accounted for in the original game design) OP weapons.
But I respectfully disagree that the Kensai bonus only makes a difference at "very high levels". Granted, the difference becomes more pronounced as the levels wear on (at least in theory), but the difference is still there even in the first game because I've tried both. Think about this: If there is no difference in offensive potential between Kensai and other fighters even at early levels, then why is the Kensai so good for dual-classing? Some may argue that the difference is even greater at early levels (which make Kensai prime for D/C) because a pure Kensai lacks defense in the end-game whereas a D/C Kensai (Mage or Thief w/ Use All) would not.
Dual-Classing is always done at level 13, which is hardly a "very high level".
However, even at level 13 the kensai gets : +4 THACO/damage
the berserker, using the gauntlets of expertise gets +1/+2. With rage he gets +3/+4. With gauntlets of extraordinary spec he gets 1/2 extra APR.
So i would hardly call that a decisive offensive advantage.
Since the berserker is much stronger defensively (rage) and can use helmets (helm of balduran, helm of vhailor)
To have a significative advantage the kensai would have to dual at 18 or 21. But this is waaaay to late (unless you use jacobtan technique)
The K/M can wear Robes, so all it really loses are Gauntlets while the K/T gets UAI.
So you get two combinations, one being somewhat better than the normal F/M dual the other being absolutely better than the F/T dual once HLA's kick in. So it's good.
But it has little to do with the Kensai but more to do that the F/M dual is one of the best duals in the game while the F/T gives you a Thief, which has a gigantic benefit to the party, that can do something else other than Thief stuff. All the Kensai part does is make the F/M and F/T duals slightly better.
Berserker is better for dualing to mage.
It's like... you spend your entire life becoming a "sword saint", mastering the use of your weapon, training day in and day out to make it a piece of your body and an extension of your soul....
then all of the sudden out of nowhere one day you're like "Eff this, I'm going to Hogwarts"?
Then after getting crushed by the Adamantite golem, Firkraag, the greater werewolf and Mencar you're like "Eff this no armor or gloves shit, i'm getting protection spells"?