increased banters in BGEE?

Lemernis

This is a mod idea for BGEE that I would like to float to the community.

Through the CLUA console we can force banters to fire with Ctrl+I. It would be wonderful if a simple (?) mod automatically increased the occurrence of NPC banters. Enough so that they fire pretty frequently--say, for any two NPCs that have interaction, it would be on the order of about every half hour or so...

To extend the concept, if it would be possible to use the same type of code to expand the banters between various NPCs (including fights) to more NPC relationships, then that would rock as well.

Some time back @Mordeus compiled the banters which may be viewed here. A lot of the dialog lines that the NPCs have could be used to define new relationships, above and beyond the original game.

Does a mod such as this sound feasible?

Glam_Vrock

The BG1 NPC Project basically does all of this, and people are already working on an EE version.

Lemernis

Actually, as much as I have enjoyed the BG1 NPC Project myself it hugely expands on/develops the NPCs' personalities. I think it is fun, definitely. But there are times when I don't want all of what that mod does. What I'm envisioning here would be more of a modest enhancement to the vanilla game, versus an extensive 'makeover', which is what BG1 NPC Project offers.

Lemernis

Again, I offer all praise and respect for the wonderfully creative and enjoyable BG1 NPC Project. But in all honesty I don't necessarily want someone else's idiosyncratic characterization of the NPC imposed upon my game. To be even more honest, only rarely am I in the mood for that.

Below is a compilation of all the sounds for the NPCs. Just randomly click throughout it's playback bar to hear some of the rarely expressed banters that were voiced for the NPCs. If these banters were set to fire between various NPCs with fairly high frequency... and many more relationships were defined (some potentially ending in fights perhaps at a, let's say, 20% chance of occurrence... That would breathe a whole new life into this game in a way that doesn't impose anyone's idiosyncratic vision of the character. There would be some choices made by the modding team about which NPCs don't like each other, beyond the ones that already exist. And it would be impossible to please every fan in that regard. But just as there are some fun surprises in the vanilla game (Edwin and Alora are friends, which to me is charming), there could be in this mod as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZlQCRwkeB8

Jidokwon

I bought the EE versions thinking that increased banter frequency was a given. Instead, we're lucky to see two or three banters from each NPC in a 60 hour game. I'd also like to see a mod that increases the banter frequency so you get most, if not all, of an NPC's banters in a game. I want to experience the vanilla game fully before I start playing with mods and with the rarity of banters, as is, it will take many games. This really should have been a feature of the EE versions. Really disappointed that they didn't have the sense to do this.

AstroBryGuy

The fact is that the NPCs don't have a lot of banter dialogs in the vanilla game. Most NPCs have around 12 lines of banter dialog, including replies to others. And usually the banters are with only a handful of the other NPCs. For example, almost all of Garrick's banters are with Skie, so if you don't have Skie in your party, Garrick won't banter.

Twani

Mm, it's not so much banter frequency as it is lack of banters. Jaheira is one of the characters that has the most, and even she only talks to two people- Khalid and Xzar, I believe (although Faldorn talks to her). If you're not keeping her with those characters, she'll be silently. Coran is another character with a lot of banters- he'll flirt with almost every female (especially Safana)- but if you have, say, an all male party, he's pretty much quiet. You can CTRL+I to trigger banters, but you'll find there's very, very few of them.

...So, I use BG1NPC.


EDIT: Oh, wait, you're talking about the compliments/insults, too. Those are hard to track: they can't seem to be triggered by CTRL+I, so they are rare. I'm not sure how to make them trigger more often; in my experience, increasing the banter amount/speed doesn't make them trigger any more often. I think there has to be some other trick to getting them going.

Lemernis

@Twani, see this thread http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/32303/is-this-a-bgee-mod-that-you-would-like-to-see-spoilers#latest and @AstroBryGuy 's comment on the BANTTIMG.2da file for BG1 NPC Project mod which accelerates banters.

In addition to making the banters that already exist fire more frequently, the more I examine this idea the clearer it seems that it should be a mod so that banters can be created between many more characters. It would be fun to see all the voiced lines used creatively to establish many new relationships.

AstroBryGuy

@Lemernis‌ - I got the following response from Avenger on BANTTIMG:

Both.

Interact frequency/probability is the main thing. Special probability is if they use the dialogs.
So, if you set special probability to 100, it will be all dialogs, if you set it to 0, it will be all interact.2da.

[edit]
(at least that's what i thought first, but i don't really know how special probability works)
If the special probability part isn't true, then this is mostly for interact.2da

http://forums.gibberlings3.net/index.php?showtopic=25516&p=223634

So, I think some testing of exactly what BANTTIMG.2da does is in order. :-)

Jidokwon

I'm asking for something a bit different than Lemernis, perhaps. If I assemble a six person party early and keep the same NPCs throughout, I'd hope to hear most, if not all of their banters. All of the interactions with fellow party members, as well as compliments, insults, happy, angry, nighttime, daytime, forest, city, etc. All of them. I think Lemernis is asking for this part, too, but it sounds like he'd like to add fanfiction for more banters and NPCs, which I thought was what the BG1 NPC Project basically did. I'd just like to play through a couple games hearing all of the available vanilla banters and I can't do such in current form. Once I do this, then I'd consider further moding the game with fanfiction, but I want to experience a vanilla game or two in it's entire glory first.

I've heard that Control/I can break the game, at least in BG2, so I'm hesitant to use that and it's not as much fun forcing it as having them come up randomly anyhow. I'll be sure to play around with the BANTTIMG.2da and I'll post anything that I learn here. Thanks for the information so far.

Edit: I figured that having all of the banters fire in a game would be a simple editing of one 2da file, but it looks more complicated than I imagined. This is beyond my very limited experience and I'd probably end up breaking games on my own. Well, I'll continue to read this thread with interest, but I don't want to hijack it further. Thanks again.

AstroBryGuy

@jidokwon - Look at INTERACT.2da to see which NPCs trade compliments/insults with each other.

http://iesdp.gibberlings3.net/files/2da/2da_tots/interact.htm

As far as banters go, you also have to be selective. As @Twani said, Coran in an all-male party won't give you his banters, and the same for Garrick without Skie and Eldoth, Jaheira without Khalid and Xzar, etc..

Lemernis

Jidokwon said:

I think Lemernis is asking for this part, too, but it sounds like he'd like to add fanfiction for more banters and NPCs, which I thought was what the BG1 NPC Project basically did.

Nope, actually I'm only talking about an exchange of voiced lines that are already available but that we rarely hear, and just setting them up to fire between many more characters than the handful that are scripted to banter. So the same scripting routine in the code that has, for example, Faldorn compliment Coran is copied and and modified to have Xan insult Tiax (this would be a new banter). And one could get creative with the possibilities for exchanging those voiced lines, of course.

But in addition to increasing the frequency of banters as such (both existing and newly created), that would be it for this mod.

BG1 NPC writes extensive text dialogue between NPCs. This mod would add no text dialogue at all. Just exchanges of voiced lines.

Jidokwon

Thanks for both replies.

@AstroBryGuy: I realize that if I'm missing key NPCs certain banters won't fire, but as it is all that I remember hearing are the select and happy comments. I didn't want to spoil too much, so I just quickly skimmed through Mordeus' compiled list, but it looked like some NPCs might be missing forest, city, dungeon, and other banters that fire extremely rarely in the EE versions. Maybe it's just a case of there not being near as many banters as I had hoped.

@Lemernis: Thank you for further clearing that up. I was a bit confused from the comments here and the thread in General Discussion. I was wondering how you meant further adding new content, but without adding any new dialogue. We're basically hoping for much of the same, but I'd be satisfied with more frequent vanilla banters. Just having the normal ones fire regular is well beyond me. I'm sure adding new banters with existing voiced lines would be even more involved, but it would probably more fun for a modder or group to work on, as it involves a more personal touch.

Twani

@Lemernis I can't fault your idea, but didn't you say that you didn't really like BG1NPC project because it was other people's interpretation of the characters added on top of the canon characters? How would adding banter between characters Bioware didn't think would compliment/insult each other be different from that? Creating a script to make the Bioware characters banter more often with their vanilla banters is one thing, but adding different compliments/insults that Bioware didn't intend would just be putting your interpretation of the characters in to the game.

Lemernis

@Twani‌, that's true. Just making the distinction that there's no text. The mod I'm envisioning would add interaction that isn't in the original game, sure enough. Not everyone would agree whether those new bantering relationships feel right to them. I just don't think I could resist creating the new banter relationships.

SharGuidesMyHand

Lemernis said:

It would be wonderful if a simple (?) mod automatically increased the occurrence of NPC banters.

One of the components of the NPC Project seems to do this though - Jason Compton's accelerated banter script. See the description in the original readme here: http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-bg1npc.html#compon

NPC Project allows you to pick and choose which of its components to install (except for the initial "required components" part), so if you don't want to install the new banters/quests, you don't have to - and the accelerated banter component should work on the banters that already exist in the game.