What actually are the best weapons for a solo Kensage to wield?
Lil2Wkd
Member Posts: 50
I'm about to start a solo run and have no idea where to put my weapon specialisations. My last run through used a lot of Quarterstaff towards the end, s I'd probably like to skip that as tempting as Staff of the Magi is. I'm definitely open to suggestions, but would like a weapon I can get +5 so I can carry it through-Flail is tempting as I dont to mind switching to FotA after casting Haste, but know it also deprives me of a +4 weapon until TOB. Any suggestions as ever, gladly recieved.
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I see now you're turning towards more powergamie characters
I sincerely think that a Kensai should be a GM in a sword only, no flails, no axes, no hammers etc. To me it's because this word means "Sword Saint". Moreover, because of some asian influence in this word, I think that a sword type should be one of the eastern weapons.
It has nothing to do with powergaming, just my own view on a Kensai.
Taking into account magical buffs and Kensai bonuses I think you should definetely go dual-wielding. This automatically means that the second weapon would be eigher Belm (a scimitar) or Kundane (a short sword) - no matter these weapons are not +5 their main pro is + 1 attack to the main hand. This attribute alone makes them ideal second weapons.
For the maind hand, there's a magnificent katana+3 -Celestial Fury - for SoA but there're no powerful katanas for ToB.
In terms of ToB eastern weapons, the Spectral Brand scimitar (upgradable to +5 version) is a powerful and a very good sword. It raises the THAC0 bonus to +10 for 3 rounds making your Kensage a killing machine.
But in SoA, you'll only get a usual +3 scimitar.
If you think not only eastern weapons are ok for a Kensai, then long swords are a good choice for the main hand. There're MANY good long swords: Daystar, Blackrazor and Angurvadal for ToB to name a few.
If you like a concept of a strong Kensai wielding a big sword, you can choose 2-handed swords because there're many good weapons of this type both in SoA and in ToB: Lilarcor, Silver Sword, Gram the Sword of Grief.
If you're a powergamer and/or don't think a Kensai should use only a sword, then nothing is better than Flail of Ages in the main hand. This weapon is so bad-ass.
Axe of the Unyielding +5 that has a 10% chance of instantly killing an opponent by decapitation with each successful attack is also a good choice, taking into account in SoA there're many decent axes too, and you can even throw some of them.
You can get 5APR naturally if you are dual-wielding (F13 + Belm + grandmastery in Axe), do both melee and ranged damage, and access disruption, vorpal and knockdown abilities (Azuredge, Axe of the Unyielding +5 and K'logarath). You can buy +3 axes early in SOA (Stonefire, Azuredge or even Axe of Hrothgar, though the last one is pretty weak), and Belm is easy to get (go to Trademeet, then the Druid Grove, and fight a path to the Ogre Mage's Tower). If you are feeling adventurous, you can venture into Watcher's Keep. Usuno's Blade is found on Level 1, and will outperform most of the SOA axes and scimitars. To shore up your ranged ability, buy Azuredge (it is good for bashing undead too... and from a safe distance!) or fight Tarnor the Hatchetman's band in the sewers to get Hangard's Axe. Helping Bodhi in Chapter 3 should net you the Rifthome Axe, a +3 throwing axe.
If you are really hard up for cash and cannot get one of the better weapons yet, memorize Enchanted Weapon and you can get a generic Axe +3. Memorize two copies of the spell if you have to use two axes. Each one lasts one full day so you should not need to memorize the spell too often.
As you progress into TOB, Axe of the Unyielding +5 is a good choice as a main weapon. Against monsters immune to vorpal effects, you can use Spectral Brand +5 which does decent cold damage on top of melee damage. K'logarath is great for hit-and-run attacks due to its knockdown effect. If a monster is immune to bladed weaponry, use summons, magic, or any of the usable weapons conjured by spells like Black Blade of Disaster. I try to bypass this issue by choosing quarterstaff when I dual-class into a mage.
Flail of Ages is another good option, but it is less versatile since the only other good flail is Defender of Easthaven. The +5 version also has that annoying Free Action effect that prevents stacking of movement bonuses - the faster you move, the better you are at hit-and-run. I know some players scoff at APR, but it allows you to utilize your Kensai bonuses more often and your special effect damage will also kick in more reliably, which is good. You can put all your points into flail and scimitar, though I am not very into this combination because I lose out on ranged ability - if I have to spend proficiencies on another weapon that allows ranged damage (dagger or axe), I will end up spreading out my limited proficiency points.
You can play with any type of weapons and you'll find good ones (with the exception of Katanas). So it really comes down to what you would like to use. While FoA is an amazing weapon i think flails look absolutely horrible in BG.
I would personally have gone with Scimitar/Short Sword because it would fit great in from a RP perspective and looks great as well. Pick up Usuno's Scimitar +4 (Level 1 watcher's keep) and Short Sword of the Mask +4 (buy from vendor at watcher's keep) and then pick up either Kundane or Belm as your other weapon. Later on you can pick up the Spectral Brand which is one of the most powerful weapons in the game.
It really comes down to what you want to play, you'll be so powerful anyway that you can play with any proficiency and do well.
Crom
FoA
Tome -> 19
Lum -> 20
Deck -> 21
Hell trial -> 23
27-32 (FoA) Vs 28-34 (Crom Faeyr) and then you have to take into consideration that FoA deals elemental damage that will interrupt and go through pretty much everything AND it has the most powerful slow in the entire game.
FoA (23 STR) = 18-23 + 10 damage
1d6 + 6 /+11 (STR 23) + 10 elemental damage.
Crom Faeyr (25 STR) = 19-25 + 5 Lightning
2d4 + 3 /+14 (STR 25) + 5 elemental damage.
Assuming a difference between 25 and 23 STR, the Crom user loses out on 5 points of elemental damage, but adds +2 to THAC0 and +3 to physical damage to both main and off hand.
If the off hand weapon is Belm, and assuming weapon grandmastery for main hand weapon, it comes to a 20-point advantage in elemental damage for the FOA user, but is partially cancelled by a 15-point advantage in physical damage for the Crom user.
If STR for the FOA user is 22, then add +1 to THAC0 and +1 damage on top on the figures above for the Crom user. The physical damage advantage for the Crom user will increase to 20, canceling the elemental damage advantage of the FOA user. I will skip the math.
Also, part of FOA's elemental damage is poison, which is easily resisted. So is fire. Once an elemental damage type is resisted, the FOA user will deal less damage than the Crom user. So you can knock a notch off FOA. OTOH, the off hand (Belm) is only a +2 weapon, so balors and similarly resistant monsters will cause the FOA user to regain a damage advantage since the off hand damage bonus cannot be counted.
But the 33% slow effect without a save is indeed extremely potent. This is something that Crom cannot offer. This is also why I used Axe of the Unyielding +5 in the comparison, which kills outright (albeit on a failed save at -4).
If you put two identical fighters up against each other, one with Crom Faeyr and the other FoA then FoA will win because of the slow.
The one big minus for FoA is the free action part that can be worked around.
It will tear down mages, golems and anything else in the game like a hot knife through butter.
Do i like it? No.
Is it the most powerful weapon in the game? Yes.
No other weapon is this good against mages, deals that much damage, has such an amazing special ability (slow) and is that easy to get (don't have to fight any hard battles to get it).
I do enjoy Crom Faeyr and think it's a great weapon. But you get it so late in the game AND you have to give up almost all of your STR equipment. If you have more than one fighter type it just isn't worth the trade in my opinion.
With the deck you have to get +1 str (but you'll need to hire Korgan or a wizard with Spell immunity to survive the first card) and 1.000.000 px (after kicking the one who picked the first card and after dualling to mage).
Then you have to hire a thief and you have to steal all the scrolls (and I really mean all the scrolls) you can steal in waukeen's promenade. Then you kick out the thief and you scribe all the spells you stole (deleting the ones you already know).
By doing this you'll get level 14 as a mage all in one, so you will be able to spend 2 more points in your favourite weapons.
In the end you'll have the chance to do this:
flails *****
two weapons style ***
dagger * (for your only ranged weapon)
scimitar * (for Belm)
mace * (for my beloved mace of disruption +2)
That's what I would do in a powergaming prospective.
In a roleplaying prospective I would simply pick Long sword.
FOA inflicts the slow effect for 20 seconds, 33% of the time, and the archives on this forum suggest that it has been patched and it cannot be stacked. Hence, after the first slow, successive slow effects will not affect the target. This is quite different from a weapon like AOTU - if the vorpal effect is saved against, you can always continue hitting and perhaps the next one can go through. Or Answerer - the effects stack IIRC, so multiple hits will go a long way for nerfing the target's attacks on you.
FOA inflicts some elemental damage that can be resisted, like poison. Some are even worse in certain circumstances, like fire which heals fire giants. 10 points of elemental damage may be reduced by quite a considerable amount by monsters with a lot of resistances. If you are fighting mages, just one elemental damage is enough to disrupt their casting if it gets through - you do not need all 5 types. Many of them are humans who do not have extensive protections and if they have Protection from Magical Weapons on, FOA elemental damage will not go through anyway.
FOA +5 has that annoying Free Action effect that prevents the hasted movement bonus from stacking with the movement rate bonus from Boots of Speed. It may not be a weapon of choice if you are fond of hit-and-run attacks.
Before I begin any playthrough, I always plan my party extensively. I plan out which characters I want to use, what proficiencies I want to take, how I want to outfit my party, and the order I should play in order to outfit my characters with the desired equips as soon as possible.
For a Kensai/Mage, know that a Kensai starts of with 4 proficiency points at L1. He gets 1 proficiency point per 3 levels. When he dual-classes into a mage, he gets 1 proficiency point in a mage weapon, then gets 1 more point per 6 levels. For a F13/M28, he should have 4+4=8 points from F13, then 1+4=5 points from mage. However, he cannot stack 2 of the proficiency points from the mage class (at M6 and M12) with the proficiency points from his kensai class before he recovers his kensai abilities, so unless you are squatting at F13/M5 (the level before you get your second mage proficiency point) and you are jumping to F13/M14 in one sitting (the level that you regain your kensai abilities), you cannot stack the first two points from the mage class with the points from the Kensai class.
That said, what weapon do you want to use in your main hand?
FOA is a good weapon, but it does have drawbacks that you have to decide if you want to work with them. If the Slow effect is the main thing you want, and you do not care for its other effects, nobody says you cannot put 2 points in it, use another main weapon, and do this sequence:
1. Use FOA to hit target until it is slowed
2. During the 20-second slow duration, switch to your preferred main weapon and swing
3. If target is not dead by the 20-second duration, repeat Steps 1-2
4. If target is dead by the 20-second duration, move on to next target, starting with Step 1
Also, consider how you are going to spend your proficiency points:
If you are dual-wielding, you should have 2-3 proficiency points spent on two-weapon style. Another 5 points should be spent on the main weapon. 1 point has to go to either Dagger or Staff (no darts since you lose access to them after you regain your kensai abilities). You may want to use some points for Scimitar (for Belm, so that your off hand is not terrible). Plan out your character, and with some common sense, you should be able to work out the optimum path through the game for equipping.
As a side note for reference, I like to make hit-and-run attacks, and I love special effect damage (FOA, AOTU, Answerer, etc.), especially if they deny saving throws or are particularly debilitating. I play with a party, so I usually let a secondary front-liner use the FOA while my kensage swings away with AOTU. Once the target is slowed, I get the secondary front-liner to move on to the next target, inflicting slow on as many targets as possible to ease the pressure at the front and buying more time for the kensage to bash through the opposition.
I run a F17/M25, so I have a total of 14 proficiency points - 5 for Axe, 5 for Scimitar, 1-2 for Staff, and 2-3 for Two-Weapon. Obviously, this setup may change if I play solo. Note that I squat a lot (I played IWD2 until late into Chapter 4 with one L12 Sorcerer and 3 L1 characters just to keep party levels down), but that is extreme. You may not want to squat so much.
Good luck with the planning, and enjoy the play.
In my opinion the thing that makes it so powerful is that you don't need anything else. Once you have FoA it can clear the entire game for you, it can and will deal massive amounts of damage against every single enemy in the game, no enemy is immune to it. The slow is just awesome, and you can target different enemies to end up having 2-4 slowed at once.
FoA when it comes to weapons in this game is the bard, just a very powerful and psyched up bard.
Crushing Damage (golems)
Elemental damage (interrupt, goes through stoneskin)
Magic resistance
Free action (while it's an annoying ability when you want to do Improved haste, it's still a nice ability in itself)
High damage
One handed
Amazing special ability (slow)
[Edited] : Yes it won't be able to hit Kangaxx in SoA.
BG2tweaks has a component that lets the smith in the Docks upgrade ToB items as well, so all the items you get in watcher's keep he is able to create for you. This way you can upgrade it to FoA +4 pretty early if you want as the poison head is in watcher's keep level 2.
FOA does:
2 fire
2 cold
2 electrical
2 acid
2 poison
Against even a mid-level monster like a balor with 100% fire resist, 50% cold resist and 100% electricity resist, your 10 elemental damage is down to 5 points. So it is not always the case that FOA will do more damage than any other weapon. The biggest bosses (like Melissan) have even more resistances. To go through Stoneskin, just one elemental damage type is enough as long as it is effective - you do not need the whole family.
5% magic resistance is not something that will blow people away. Seriously.
Free Action can be very annoying, to the point that there are players who recommend not upgrading the +4 version. I am cool with it, but not everyone does, which is why I asked OP to consider before deciding if it is really what he wants.
High damage is nerfed once you count monsters that are even somewhat resistant. FOA starts strong, but the only way it can go is down.
There are other good one-handed weapons out there - AOTU, Foebane, etc. It does not always have to boil down to FOA.
Slow is amazing. Vorpal is amazing. AC penalty is amazing. Dispel is amazing.
Let us respect the OP and allow him to make his own considerations, please. Taken together, many of us have offered a pretty thorough analysis here. The rest is OP's call.
FoA you can pick up in your first quest after Chateau Irenicus. The +3 version is still excellent - it still has the very useful elemental damage vs mages and the awesome slow.
For me that's the real reason FoA is the best weapon in the game. It's arguably the best endgame weapon (certainly comparable at least) yet you can pick it up at the start of BG2.
I don't know what BG2:EE has done to the slow effect, but what made it better for late ToB was, by that point, the enemies make their vorpal saves, their poison saves, their stun saves, and level drain doesn't work (in Ascension).
And saying you can get Crom Faeyr in BG2 is like saying you can get Equalizer in BG2. Once you get out of Underdark the game is pretty much over unless you've saved all chapter 2 quests.
Level 9
Short Swords ***
Flail *
Dual Weapon Style ***
Which if I'm correct should give me 3 APR, base THAC0 of 9/11, and 3 bonus damage (before stat boosts).
Then at 9 dualling to Mage, putting my pip into Quarterstaff and grinding enough Scrolls to get back my Kensai levels.
That all makes sense and seems wise, right? Or am I underestimating the power of a Kensai and my own ability to get through the Keep solo?
It's likely the first game will be a speed run with a party, but BG2 is going to be solo.
But shortsword is great as well, just be prepared that other than the Short Sword of Mask you'll have a hard time finding good short swords in the game, you can get the +3 from the Mae'var quest line but that's pretty much it. Then again you really don't need another short sword than the one of Mask (if you're using Kundane) which you can upgrade to +5 in ToB and it'll grant you Immunity to level drain.
In addition, I'd probably take either Flails (for FoA) or Scimitars (for Belm and eventually for Spectral Brand).
I usually start with something a thief can use to backstab with on the off chance I decide to go kensai-thief instead of kensage, saving the non-thief weapon until later when backstab immunity is more common.