Belm + Kundane = Blender?

Tad_Has_A_Cold_Olive

So, both Belm and Kundane are weapons that grant an extra attack per round. If a character wielded Belm in one hand and Kundane in the other, would they then be getting 2 extra attacks per round?

I know its not exactly a good idea, considering there would be some enemies who couldn't be hurt at all by that setup, but I am curious for curiosity's sake.

elminster

Its a good combo for a blade or swashbuckler, but warriors (especially fighters) won't really gain that much from using both. At least not compared to having two of the warriors in your group each using one of them.

JuliusBorisov

Although I completely agree with @elminster‌ on this subject I'd like to note that the wizard has forgotten to actually answer the question of the OP.

So, let me, a poor mageling, fix that.

If a character wields Belm in one hand and Kundane in the other he indeed gets 2 extra attacks per round to the main hand as well as 1 attack per round to the second hand.

elminster

Hehe woops. Must have based my answer more on the title. What can I say? Old age

The_Potty_1

Well the play on words in the title is worth it for it's own sake, but once you've tried greater whirlwind, you will see that these two swords can never really deserve this title

karnor00

More Beldane than Blender surely?

But the real problem with equipping both is that attack speed is capped at 5 attacks/round. Level 13 fighter = 2/round. Specialisation = +0.5/round. Offhand = +1/round. One speed weapon = +1/round.

So players are up to 4.5 attacks/round with just single speed weapon. Grandmastery or the gauntlets of specialisation will bring the player up to 5 attacks/round. So having a second speed weapon would be wasted.

Even without grandmastery/gauntlest, the second speed weapon would only be at 50% effectiveness. And the player would be losing out on the extra damage/secondary effects that a really good primary weapon could provide.

SionIV

The_Potty_1 said:

Well the play on words in the title is worth it for it's own sake, but once you've tried greater whirlwind, you will see that these two swords can never really deserve this title

They can because you need to have one of them to reach 10 APR with Improved Haste and that way be able to jump over whirlwind and use critical to give you even more damage.

Corvino

As has been said, spread the love around. Some characters (Blades and Swashbucklers) can dual wield effectively but miss out on bonus attacks, so Haer'Dalis or Charname could benefit from these weapons. In these cases though you'll inevitably swap out Kundane for the Scarlet Ninja-to once you get Use Any Item, and you'll save having to get shortsword proficiency too.

For a Fighter class or Multiclass it's a lot less worth it, just go with a speed offhand and a nasty mainhand.

Ygramul

Wouldn't it be great if you could dual wield Lillarcor AND Belm+Kundane.

DreadKhan

I tried speed weapons on an assassin pureclass in vanilla tob. Great in theory, in reality its more trying to fight a baalor with a weedwacker. Low damage and terrible accuracy did not make up for the fact that I had 4.5 attacks per round. And that was assuming your assassin should get the dwing cloak and Gloves of Ex Spec... which he should not.

In older stuff, boots of speed and Grandmaster armour added 1/2 attack, so I had 5. But a positive THAC0 does not make you much of a fighter in ToB. I also used the Ninjato, but still always missed AND couldnt backstab. Fail! Blade or swashy could make use of these to steamroll mooks, but mooks arent exactly challenging to begin with.

Spread the love, yo! Share these bad boys.

Gallowglass

Indeed, @DreadKhan makes an important point which is often overlooked in these discussions. APR is a vitally important combat stat for warrior types who are actually capable of hitting something fairly reliably, but it's of less importance for characters whose main problem is hitting at all except for an occasional critical hit - in the latter case, boosting THAC0 is generally more useful than boosting APR. 5 misses-per-round is no more useful than 1 miss-per-round!