Ah yes, other witnesses. I'm sure they gave unbiased testimony. And you gotta love the near-instant jump to blaming the victim—always a classic. As to the texts, isn't it possible she changed her mind between then and when they were about to have sex? I can't say for sure what happened in this situation, but the article itself is, as you say, absurd. inflammatory.
Ah yes, other witnesses. I'm sure they gave unbiased testimony. And you gotta love the near-instant jump to blaming the victim—always a classic. As to the texts, isn't it possible she changed her mind between then and when they were about to have sex? I can't say for sure what happened in this situation, but the article itself is, as you say, absurd.
@jackjack I completely disagree (I think my first sentence wasn't clear so I edited it). He was found innocent by the law and the I don't see any reason as to why anyone would assume that the witness would be biased when one was a friend of hers who she spoke to about her intentions. The texts are also pretty clear (though the dude def sounds a bit forceful) http://www.thefire.org/text-messages-between-john-doe-and-accuser/
I don't get this whole "victim blaming" thing that people are constantly accusing other of. I understand that concept when people make stupid comments about "she should have dressed more appropriately" but I think its inappropriate in a case where there is a "he says she says" with pretty clear evidence. In my opinion that accusation gets thrown around too quickly and its as if we should automatically find someone guilty and not even worry about the details since if you want to know more then you are "blaming the victim".
In this case the college attorney even said that the victim gave her consent, so I'm not sure we can just say that she changed her mind
I myself was vague in my response. In this particular situation, I honestly agree it's pretty difficult, maybe impossible to defend her stance. But I see some troubling tacks taken in the article, which aside from reminding me of stuff I've seen in other arguments on this topic, in fact undercut what could very well be a legitimate argument that this was consensual, if drunken sex.
Well...a very peculiar issue and the young man's motivation and act is really questionable...though if the other girl seemed to like it, why not? Whatever rows their boats. The interference was not necessary, the girl involved could have screamed by herself, had she wanted to.
Actually, I would have expected the involved girl to get off on the same spot as the accused loser...and maybe talk...and maybe to it again...?
But keep in mind, silence is not consent. Just because someone doesn't say something doesn't mean they approve or even want what is happening to them. Because getting assaulted like that is disorienting and frightening. "Is this really happening? Please make it stop! I can't say anything because if I make a scene he'll hurt me…" is something that may have been going through her mind. Me, if someone groped me, I'd probably freeze because of the "I can't believe this is happening" reaction
I voted, but I really hope it's not a true story. You (and everybody else there) should have done just like the other girl did.
Respectable opinion. Socially sound point of view. Yet, i myself believe in one thing mostly: "Do not do to others, whatever it is that you do not want others do to you". In this happening, it was "interference". And ruining a "crude" (apparently, yet helplessly) attempt, which was also developing good for him too, of a poor looser and loner (IF we choose to believe his story), to find his possible special someone (even under these circumstances).
I myself am chaotic. And neutral. I couldn't care less about laws or even worse, etiquette, because i have my own moral compass and manners facade. And mine, end right where and when that of all the others begin. I never take sides, coupled with avoiding action; that is precisely why i remained a silent observer. That is why i was irritated. Because some people think they are doing their daily good deed, and they end up ruining moments, which could possibly lead to mutual good. At least i myself never made it MY business, to inquire HOW someone got to meet and get his/her BF/GF or something, and even worse, ruin the whole scene. This is one of the few times, that "good" people actually become "evil". And still remain under the illusion that they are good, blameless, and even worse, praiseworthy and should to be imitated by everyone else.
Comments
http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/04/occidental-expels-student-for-rape-under
As to the texts, isn't it possible she changed her mind between then and when they were about to have sex?
I can't say for sure what happened in this situation, but the article itself is, as you say, absurd. inflammatory.
I completely disagree (I think my first sentence wasn't clear so I edited it).
He was found innocent by the law and the I don't see any reason as to why anyone would assume that the witness would be biased when one was a friend of hers who she spoke to about her intentions.
The texts are also pretty clear (though the dude def sounds a bit forceful)
http://www.thefire.org/text-messages-between-john-doe-and-accuser/
I don't get this whole "victim blaming" thing that people are constantly accusing other of. I understand that concept when people make stupid comments about "she should have dressed more appropriately" but I think its inappropriate in a case where there is a "he says she says" with pretty clear evidence. In my opinion that accusation gets thrown around too quickly and its as if we should automatically find someone guilty and not even worry about the details since if you want to know more then you are "blaming the victim".
In this case the college attorney even said that the victim gave her consent, so I'm not sure we can just say that she changed her mind
Actually, I would have expected the involved girl to get off on the same spot as the accused loser...and maybe talk...and maybe to it again...?
I myself am chaotic. And neutral. I couldn't care less about laws or even worse, etiquette, because i have my own moral compass and manners facade. And mine, end right where and when that of all the others begin. I never take sides, coupled with avoiding action; that is precisely why i remained a silent observer. That is why i was irritated. Because some people think they are doing their daily good deed, and they end up ruining moments, which could possibly lead to mutual good. At least i myself never made it MY business, to inquire HOW someone got to meet and get his/her BF/GF or something, and even worse, ruin the whole scene. This is one of the few times, that "good" people actually become "evil". And still remain under the illusion that they are good, blameless, and even worse, praiseworthy and should to be imitated by everyone else.