What is your opinion on this?
Demonoid_Limewire
Member Posts: 424
Today, i became witness to a very strange event. I was using public means of transportation, a bus, to be precise. And i noticed a young man, discreetly, touching a girl from behind. I was so wtf when i noticed this, so i watched through the event unfolding. The girl, which was apparently single (no wedding ring, no ring at all anyway), and NOT underage, not only did not show any signs of discomfort (let alone annoyance), but she even discreetly leaned forward a bit, to allow said man touch her better... Anyone could guess that both of them were perfect strangers!
After 2 minutes or so, another girl, stranger too, interfered. She almost shouted at the man, and ordered him to put his hand elsewhere... And the girl which was being touched made a face expression, something like disappointment or sighing, and turned to face against the window.
The man, probably ashamed, got off the bus 2 stops later. Which happened to be the place i was about to drop off too, for my business for the day. Curious, i asked him why on earth did he do that, and how the interfering girl noticed that, since they both were being discreet, and was difficult to spot. And he replied: "I don't have a girlfriend, last time i had one was ten years ago almost, i am 27 years old, and very lonely. I don't want to visit a prostitute, my only consolation is touching now and then a good looking, without man, girl, so as to forget that which i do not and cannot have. Which is pretty rare (locating a girl and without a man, and that is about to enjoy discreet intimacy with a total stranger...)". He was almost crying: "That interfering beach ruined my day, i and that girl were enjoying it both...".
I don't know, i am generally against perverts, especially since i am a decent man. Yet, i felt sorry for him (poor and pathetic, or something along those lines), and felt even anger for that stupid, interfering girl. Wanted to discuss it, since this was the "special" of this day of mine. What is your viewpoint concerning this all??
After 2 minutes or so, another girl, stranger too, interfered. She almost shouted at the man, and ordered him to put his hand elsewhere... And the girl which was being touched made a face expression, something like disappointment or sighing, and turned to face against the window.
The man, probably ashamed, got off the bus 2 stops later. Which happened to be the place i was about to drop off too, for my business for the day. Curious, i asked him why on earth did he do that, and how the interfering girl noticed that, since they both were being discreet, and was difficult to spot. And he replied: "I don't have a girlfriend, last time i had one was ten years ago almost, i am 27 years old, and very lonely. I don't want to visit a prostitute, my only consolation is touching now and then a good looking, without man, girl, so as to forget that which i do not and cannot have. Which is pretty rare (locating a girl and without a man, and that is about to enjoy discreet intimacy with a total stranger...)". He was almost crying: "That interfering beach ruined my day, i and that girl were enjoying it both...".
I don't know, i am generally against perverts, especially since i am a decent man. Yet, i felt sorry for him (poor and pathetic, or something along those lines), and felt even anger for that stupid, interfering girl. Wanted to discuss it, since this was the "special" of this day of mine. What is your viewpoint concerning this all??
- What is your opinion on this?22 votes
- That man is a pervert. No matter his excuse, or even the circumstances (stupid go lucky, stranger girl liked his perversion), he is the worst and he must suffer! (Lawful Good)22.73%
- Well, since the girl did not get bugged, and even seemed to like it, the man got an unfair treatment... (Chaotic Neutral)13.64%
- He should be more careful, especially around humanoids. Balance is delicate, and trying to break it for personal gain, especially without asking for permission first, got him what he deserved. He simply lost his gamble... (True Neutral)13.64%
- But he did not break any law! Especially since the girl seemed to be enjoying his touch! And since she was over 20 anyway! (Lawful Neutral)4.55%
- Interfering bastards, especially those who ruin rare moments and lucky chances of others, should be dealth with. Either by fate, or by other interfering bastards (let them have a taste of their own medicines) (Chaotic Neutral)13.64%
- Dammnit! As long as no one noticed, he would have been fine! He was not up to it, let him burn, i can do better than him anytime! (Lawful Evil)0.00%
- I like watching others getting crushed, shamed, humiliated! Especially those who do not deserve it, or have it hard already! (Chaotic Evil)0.00%
- The girl was right! I would have done the same! In order for good to happen, you have to take measures yourself! (Neutral Good)4.55%
- Well, since i wasn't involved, i honestly, don't give a damn about anyone or anything. (Neutral Evil)4.55%
- Poll Creator, go to hell. You are sick. Seriously. (the angry reader)22.73%
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Comments
I don't care how sad and lonely you are, if you're feeling up random women in public places, you're a creep and a perv. The fact that she seemed to enjoy it doesn't diminish the fact that he didn't know that when he did it (if I randomly stab a guy in the chest and his last words are "Finally, sweet relief!" I still go to jail for murder).
Some may argue that the woman who involved herself was meddling with things that weren't her business, but generally when a skeevy dude is feeling up a lady and a bystander gets the impression it's unwanted, she should be commended for intervening. In this case, maybe a few seconds of observation would have done her credit though.
Long story short, if he guy is so desperate for female contact that he's fondling random ladies, he needs help. And if the girl really enjoyed herself so much, she could've said it was fine or talked to him afterwards.
That aside, I would say the man is first off, is certainly not in the right, if he goes around groping random women, even if the woman's response in this particular case did lessen the impact. Sense in this particular case she was ok with it, and they where both "enjoying it" then I'm in no position to make judgment, regardless of what I think they should have thought/done, I am not the thought police, and nor do I pretend to be. (I try, at least) However, you can't just go around grabbing random women. Not everyone will take so kindly to it, and if the other person isn't ok with it, then it's not even a grey area any more.
Secondly, sense it appears there are plenty of random women that are alright with being touched in public, it shouldn't be that hard for him to get a girlfriend, or at least pick someone up, right? From the woman's respons it seems like he could just ask
People are funny things though. Unpredictable.
And @SionIV is correct in that a good sob story doesn't justify something like that, there are other ways to get companionship and happiness than sex. I don't really know enough to say anymore than that.
Edit: I have now voted, if only to see the results. I still don't like any of the options.
Well, anyway, thanks for both your answers, and your opinions. The entire event shocked me, myself. Yet, i got somewhat empathic towards the (as i later learned) unlucky bastard, especially since a stranger who had neither business nor problem with them both, got in the middle and destroyed even his 1% chance of getting himself something out of this. Anyway, my neutral evil second self whispers, that regardless, in third world countries, even kissing in public can get you executed. My bad. "Civilized" people do not throw stones, but torment psychologically, instead.
That said, I voted the way I voted. If the lady's a-okay with a random pervert touching her, then hey, that's cool. But they shouldn't have been doing such a thing on the bus. If they were really that into each other, they should have discussed a more appropriate time to hook up, rather than embarrassing the rest of the passengers who were just trying to get through their day. So no, I don't think the man got "unfair treatment," as the poll suggests. He was punished for something that was still highly inappropriate; he's just lucky it wasn't as worse as it could have been.
Also, just wanna say... Just because a woman's not wearing a ring doesn't necessarily mean she doesn't have a man in her life. Same goes for being on the bus without a man to accompany her. When I was going to college, I rode the public bus every day to get to and from school. Often alone, and often wearing gloves, so my ring was covered (especially on those wintery days). You can only judge so much at a first look, and even then, you can still screw up.
Don't grope strangers on the bus, don't excuse people for doing it because they're "lonely", don't begrudge anyone for trying to prevent sexual assault and don't make polls with "evil" options about it afterwards.
Also depending on culture, the girl's response may be interpreted in a number of ways. It may well have been more "pretend it's not happening and hope he stops" than anything else. I was once on a crowded bus and a Blind man's guide dog took an interest in my crotch. I'm British, and we don't like to make a fuss. It's quite tricky to discreetly keep a guide dog away from your junk on a crowded bus, and it would have seemed a bit rude to yell at the Blind guy. I had to keep batting the dog's nose away and try to look inconspicuous until my stop arrived. Weird day.
So, while that was wrong, I can undestand whe he did this.
My prescription would be for him to hire a prostitute- yes, they are mainly about the sex, but he'd get to touch a real woman and perhaps find some relief. Or hey, find someone who does hug therapy- people who will hug you and get out your need for touch. Yes, they do exist.
http://www.rewireme.com/explorations/hug-therapy-high-touch-healing-high-tech-world/#sthash.4WeviKxM.dpbs
How could the woman who stopped the behaviour know that the other one wasn't uncomfortable? She read the pervert's behaviour the way most people would - as creepy and disgusting. I've had men touch me on crowded public transport and I know I would try to stop any of these perverts from behaviour like this. You never know if the touched woman didn't freeze in fear.
Besides, how on Earth can anyone sympathise with a man who calls a woman a "beach" solely because she stopped his sick fantasies from being fulfilled?
I'm really glad that my method of dealing with creeps, "accidental" combat boot on the foot, seems to work so far. Sadly, I wouldn't dare to actually speak up for myself.
I see myself as that 15-years-old-troll that goes and says something like "Hey could I touch your ass too?"
My choice is of what I would see the right thing and the perfect example, what I try to reach, but I would rather act in a more Idiotic Evil way in this case.
Then I don't get why people get so mad if they are 20 and virgin or did not have sex for a month, might be because I'm still young or just too caring about other things. Gotta confess that when I heard that, I first laughed and said "silly americans" I know, I'm not a very good nor considerate person.
But this makes me feel slightly uncomfortable, what with a young audience and some very adult themes running in this thread...
I agree with @Nonnahswriter.
It's easy to get on the Lawful Good horse and say "omg that pervert! shame on him!".
In reality, you never know if there was any chemistry between them.
If both were clearly enjoying it and the girl didn't turn around and try to prevent him or put her hand there, who are you to tell someone what is right and wrong?
Is it practically, that much different than being on the dance floor in a bar for example and having dancing, touching and groping as a form of flirting with complete strangers?
The only difference is that they were not dancing and not in a bar. Both were public places and nothing was forced.
I'm not taking his side but neither do I try to be as politically correct as possible and I try to keep an open mind.
Someone touching a girl on a crowded dancefloor is totally fine and cool but touching her on a crowded bus is not? Why? Because "society"?
Sure, it's not "appropriate" and "polite" to do so but guys get slapped or have drinks thrown on their face in bars for much less. (Not speaking from personal experience by the way)
What about girls touching guys in such way? Is it okay if a girl touches and gropes a stranger guy in public areas?
Don't say "that won't happen". Because it happened to me some years ago.
Does it make it "okay" then? Double standards much?
If for example, we had the same scene on the dancefloor and he was touching her and she was liking it, would that other girl have any business to come and try to humiliate him?
In both cases, the girl can react. Not shout and make a scene but change positions and show disinterest, instead.
In short, if I was the guy and she was enjoying it. Good. Appropriate or not, who cares?
If I was the girl and I was enjoying it, then I wouldn't want someone to interrupt us.
If I was the watcher, I would watch for her reaction. If she didn't enjoy it I would stop him or get in the way.
If she showed that she was enjoying it, then I would smirk and go on my freaking business.
Hell, from her positive reaction, she wanted it because of personal issues. Perhaps she was just kinky that way or was lonely and without a boyfriend or dissatisfied.
There are many variables on why people act and react in such ways.
It's not so simple as "It's wrong because I say so".
And yes, I am Chaotic Neutral-Goodish by nature. Keep an open mind, challenge the rules of what is right and wrong.
Not it's not fine. It becomes fine when the other person likes it.
And there was no molesting. There was some touching which while it was not appropriate, since she didn't dislike it, it was not wrong either.
It's a pretty complex issue.
If he asked her instead, she gave her permission and then touched her. Does that make it okay?
What if she gave him permission with her body language? Like a faint smile, position herself that way or perhaps more happened before the touch that the OP didn't know or notice?
She did lean to the touch. He didn't just reach and grabbed her when he walked into the bus.
From a personal experience, I think a girl is more likely to show signs of interest through body language, than simply say to you "yes touch me" or "yes I am attracted to you, flirt with me and let's have sex".
I think they are more subtle when it comes to such matters.
Human attraction is more complex and subtle than simply saying:
-"I find you attractive and interesting"
-"Oh great, let's have sex then".
-"Alright".
The difference? When you punch someone, you're actively hurting them.
If you touch them, you are not. Neither psychologically, emotionally or physically.
There's no abuse. It's just a touch. Noone is getting hurt in any fashion.
Your example is exaggerated and misses the point in a way unfitting to the situation.
I think it's best described as a neutral situation that can go either good, bad or neutrally.
That touching is neither bad or good.
It's not asking for permission so it's not good.
They are not getting hurt or abused or anything, so it's not bad either.
I think that's my point. It's a neutral experiment that is neither bad or good but can go either way depending on the reaction.
It's extremely mild also.
In DnD terms, it's best described as Chaotic Neutral.
It's not within the society's rules so it's chaotic.
Noone is getting hurt, so it's not evil.
They are not directly benefitting unless they like it, which is not good either.
This question would have been better asked as, "how would you have reacted."
If it was me, and I didn't see any forceful behavior I'd mind my own business.
Wow, you really went there, didn't you? There was no assault, so you are wrong, again.
If you seriously think that this classifies as "sexual assault" and it would emotionally damage people, then great. You have some warped understanding of life.
Does saying "I want to have sex with you" count as sexual assault too? What about a kiss?
And don't even try putting words in my mouth.
@FInaLfront Which is my point, exactly. I just get analytical of the situation and examine both sides.
It's not assault in the strictest sense, no. Noone is getting "assaulted". Noone is getting forced into anything.
It's not appropriate, yes.
If I touch a stranger, by mistake, does that count as an involuntary sexual assault? If a girl touches a guy that way, on purpose, is it a sexual assault?
As I said, it might be weird and creepy but it's not really an assault or emotionally damaging.
It's not normal or appropriate either.
Like I said, I was touched "sexually" by a stranger girl before. That wasn't a sexual assault.
But it was weird. If the girl was more attractive, I would probably enjoy it, won't lie.
As I said, I'm not saying that what he did was good and fine. I'm saying that it wasn't really bad.
I mean, even if they were both consenting, I'd be with the second girl who interfered purely on the basis of these mofos need to get a room
It makes me think. Imagine how many times someone tried to initiate such a contact in a crowded place discreetly. If the girl got upset he could just play it off like an accident. So creepy...
I think physical contact of a sexual nature in a public environment is tricky and has to be judged on a case by case level. As a guy I don't have the same fear a girl probably would have if a physically stronger male initiated contact. Like when I get a slap on the ass by a girl I don't really feel threatened but it can be uncomfortable. However, I've seen many occasions girls get very uncomfortable when a guy so much as puts his arm around her for a "friendly hug (they usually want more, lets be honest) and there could be so much worse with a woman that a man simply can't experience. But different girls in different places seem okay with that kind of contact and more. You really just gotta use your good judgement and know when something is okay and when something is not. Stranger on a bus really doesn't seem like the right time or place lol.
Quit twisting and putting words in my mouth and making a fool of yourself with exaggerated examples.
I will say it simply:
Just touching = neutral
Forcing = bad
Enjoying = good