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BGEE or BG The Original Saga

davendaven Member Posts: 112
I played the original BG back int day but was too pathetic to ever complete it. Mainly got it because I was into NWN and ting. When I heard about BGEE I got super interested and got it at launch and completed it as much as i could. Just got the original game again and I think I actually prefer the original to EE. Even though EE has a lot more ease of use and that, I dunno I just think the original has a lot of charm to it even though its a pain in the arse to use at times.

No idea why im making a topic about it. Im still glad EE exists or i probs would have never played the game again but still... I dunno. I just think the original archaic way was the best.

BlackravenelminsterSethDavisRavenslightCrevsDaakQuartzmeaglothchickenhedKilivitz
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Comments

  • CoM_SolaufeinCoM_Solaufein Member Posts: 2,603
    Older versions? They're retired on my bookshelf where they will be forever. Only the EE games are installed on my computer from now on.

    elminsteratcDaveDragonspearGodKaiserHell
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    The only mods I use, (Rogue Rebalancing & BG2 Tweaks), are already compatible with the EE editions, save for the BG1NPC Project, which is at least alpha-compatible and currently being updated over at GitHub.

    JuliusBorisovDemonoid_Limewire
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,290
    edited June 2014
    I love the zoom feature. I would really miss that if I went back to BGT.

    And the new NPCs are pretty good. The modding community struggles with NPC mods because it's hard to find a good voice actor willing to work for free. Also, Beamdog can produce new areas more professionally that fan created mods typically do.

    I mean, I do miss some of the mods from BGT. And I'm aware that probably most of them will never be updated for BGEE and BG2EE. (The authors have moved on to other things.) I just hope that once Beamdog has completed all of its commitments for BG2EE that they will still be able to continue offering quality DLC in the form of many new NPCs with their own quests.

    Post edited by Lemernis on
    jackjackronaldoRavenslight
  • kiwidockiwidoc Member Posts: 1,357
    edited June 2014
    If you seriously want to play the old Saga with the original cutscenes, and things like the much simplified weapons skills there is a way. There's a mod called BGTutu which lets you play the original BG1 & TotSC using the BG2 engine. This lets you do most of the things that really irked in BG1 - you can pause when you are looking in you pack, and lots of other little tweaks. It's dead easy to use, I've played it many, many, many times. There are many excellently written mods - both expansion and new NPC mods. There are a lot of damn good voice actors out there. My personal fave is the BG1 NPC Project BG1 NPC project which increases your interaction with the PCs in your party including small quests, friendship and/or romance.

    I am really enjoying BGEE largely because I've just about played every mod that's compatible with BGTutu, and I really can't stand the old BG1 engine enough to actually play a game on it.

    Ravenslight
  • ArchaosArchaos Member Posts: 1,421
    @kiwidoc I have a huge problem with the animations and sprites of BG1, they're too slow, clunky-looking, plastic and the I don't like the UI also. It's too...gray and boring and not too easy on the eyes.

    Honestly, BG1's sprites look like stop-motion animation to me. Which technically is. But they're much smoother in BG2 and the movements are much more believable, instead of plastic dolls.

  • SharGuidesMyHandSharGuidesMyHand Member Posts: 2,511
    kiwidoc said:

    If you seriously want to play the old Saga with the original cutscenes, and things like the much simplified weapons skills there is a way. There's a mod called BGTutu which lets you play the original BG1 & TotSC using the BG2 engine. This lets you do most of the things that really irked in BG1 - you can pause when you are looking in you pack, and lots of other little tweaks. It's dead easy to use, I've played it many, many, many times.

    BG EasyTutu is certainly very easy to use (I'm about as tech illiterate as it gets, and even I was able to get it to work), but I felt that it didn't do as good a job at transitioning between the BG1 and BG2 rules as EE did, which is why I never really got into it. IMO, EE did an overall better job at updating the NPC weapon proficiencies (with the possible exception of Shar-Teel), and also added new weapons to make the transition even smoother.

    CrevsDaakBlackraven
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,153

    with the exception of Shar-Teel

    It's not possible. It is real.

    BlackravenMontresor_SP
  • BelanosBelanos Member Posts: 968

    Older versions? They're retired on my bookshelf where they will be forever. Only the EE games are installed on my computer from now on.

    If you're not going to be using the older versions, why don't you pas them along to someone else, especially someone who's never played them before. I gave mine away as I just didn't see the point in just having them collect dust.

    Blackraven
  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,297
    @Quartz, I think I'd really have to adapt visually if I were to play vanilla BG1 again. But I won't consider you crazy for seeing things differently. For me the debate is more between TuTu/BGT on the one hand and EE on the other hand. Both have things going for them imo: the former allow various mods that aren't EE-compatible (and possibly never will be), the latter has interesting new content and a number of corrections I like. Still, both BGT (never used TuTu) and EE have pretty much the same, marvelous feel to me. I think that anyone who's a true Baldur's Gate enthusiast cannot say that Vanilla/TuTu/BGT is shit and EE is paradise (nor the other way around).

    JuliusBorisovDemonoid_LimewireRavenslight
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,851
    edited June 2014
    @Blackraven Color me a non-BG enthusiast then -- TuTu is shit.

    (Where's the unpopular opinion puffin)

  • BlackravenBlackraven Member Posts: 3,297
    Quartz said:

    @Blackraven Color me a non-BG enthusiast then. TuTu is shit.

    You're surprisingly outspoken on this matter then. I'm not. But I like what you're saying here because you just proved me wrong when I said

    I think that anyone who's a true Baldur's Gate enthusiast cannot say that Vanilla/TuTu/BGT is shit and EE is paradise (nor the other way around).

    Obviously you are a BG enthusiast.

    QuartzDemonoid_Limewire
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited June 2014
    Quartz said:

    that shit-heap TuTu

    @Quartz, you are often complaining about the lack of shorty NPCs in BG. If it weren't for your irrational hatred of Tutu, you could have enjoyed the best shorty NPC ever :p

    Jokes aside, I always wondered what exactly you don't like about Tutu. Is it the spawning system? Because apart from that, almost everything that Tutu changes from vanilla has been changed in the same way in BG:EE. There are some minor differences, like NPCs proficiencies, but those can be easily tweaked with mods (some of which are still not available for BG:EE, like Level 1 NPCs, for example). If you mean sprites and paperdolls and such, then you just have to use 1pp and you can choose between the BG1 style, the BG2 style and the BG:EE/1pp style. Even the GUI in Tutu can be changed back to the stony one using a mod.

    BGT is another story entirely, because its purpose is to make BG1 as much as possible similar to BG2, so that they can be played seamlessly like one giant game. Nothing wrong with that idea per se, but clearly not what you would like, if I understand you correctly.

    JuliusBorisovbooinyoureyesRavenslight
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    Quartz said:

    I know that one or both makes the interface that of BGII, screws up charmed dialogue and all manner of other fine details that actually make BG1 stand out above BGII in some small, strange ways.

    @Quartz, most of those things can be fixed with mods. For example, the charmed dialogues can be fixed with TobEx. From the TobEx Reference document
    Talking to Charmed Creatures

    Option: TobEx gives the option of allowing the player to talk to charmed or dominated creatures and preventing charmed and dominated creatures from losing their soundset.
    One issue still present in Tutu/BGT is that both familiars and totemic druid summons are unnerfed and therefore too strong for BG1. I'm not aware of any mods that fix that, but it shouldn't be too difficult to create one.
    Quartz said:

    And I do indeed, in the words of @Brude, have an "odd attachment to grey stone," I will freely admit. That is, BG1's interface. It's sexy.

    You mean this one, and yes that's a Tutu screenshot :)

    booinyoureyes
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,290
    edited June 2014
    @Quartz I think you must have had some installation errors when you tried either Tutu or BGT. Or maybe you installed mods in a order that created conflicts and bugs, etc. The installation order is important.

    Tutu and BGT always worked like a champ for me. Honestly, there's very little difference to me between BGT (which I prefer to Tutu just to that I can have the seamless experience of playing the trilogy at one go) and the EEs in terms of the basic experience. The main difference is that EE offers the zoom feature, it's new kits, and more professionally designed NPCs; and BGT (and Tutu) offers many more mods--some of which are great, but it really shows when a NPC mod isn't professionally voiced. It's a matter of individual taste how good a job Beamdog has done with their new NPCs. Myself, I haven't had time yet to try the BG2EE NPC continuations and new NPCs, but I'm fairly pleased with the BGEE ones. As we know, it would be impossible to please everyone.

    I agree with @Blackraven's take. Most fans switched to Tutu and BGT when those platforms were released. The number of fans who play original BG (i.e., unmodded except for bugfixes in the form of Balderdash and Dudleyfixes) is probably a tiny sliver.

  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424
    The time i am going to buy the EE with hard earned cash, draws near. Yet, up to this point, i love/prefer the original, hands down. My reasoning consists mainly of these arguements...

    1) Nostalgia. No1. Ever.
    2) Original did not have 2's rules. Which means...
    a) Unlimited summoned creatures exploit.
    b) Wearing twin ring of wizardry, which doubled level 1 spells each.
    c) Weapon masteries were far more powerful/efficient, plus one category used to affect many different weapons.
    d) Certain cheese and exploitation being able to be utilized fully. Like fog of war.
    e) It was better to begin a class in 1, and while importing it in 2, THEN to choose kit. This way, classes like avenger, had most, if not all, their drawbacks, practically nullified...

    On the downside: No rest until fully healed. Magic resistance used to foil friendly spells like buffs or heal. No kinky kits in 1, in which you were meant to be pretty weak, as an upstart legend. When you were affected by spells like fear or hold, you used to throw your keyboard towards your screen in frenzy and anger; their mechanisms in 1 were very overpowered, and completely different to those of 2.

    3) Animations. In original, there was both motion and gore involved, like the intro, in which Sarevok butchered another child. In EE, the animations consist of motionless pictures, which look like cartoon, too...

    4) XP loopholes. I am one of those people who like to exploit the game hard, and start with a full party at max level. Cheap, i know, but i like stomping on masses of hapless enemies, with ease... Firebead Elvenhair no longer works in EE.

    5) Money exploits. I always used to like going multiplayer, importing stash characters, selling all their inventory out, saving game, then load game, and import normal party, proceeding to buy out everything i need at once.

    And staff. EE is nice and all, yet from what i hear, it contains certain mods that change things, balance things out, corrects glitches, loopholes and bugs, and puts certain, entire cheese heads, out of play. Not my style, to be honest, that is precisely why when i buy this masterpiece, i am so going to import all of my characters from the original games. Since i learned some time ago that if you wish so, then you simply can...

    More feedback in half a month, approximately. That is when i am getting paid (and going shopping).

    BlackravenRavenslightJuliusBorisov
  • Demonoid_LimewireDemonoid_Limewire Member Posts: 424

    Wow @Demonoid_Limewire, you must be @CrevsDaak's spritual brother lol! Creater of uberpowers who become death, destroyer of worlds!!

    By the way, being decidedly neutral on the matter, I'm glad to see support for both versions of the game. It would sadden me if pretty much the entire BG community were to dimiss the original or TuTu/BGT games as completely outdated, or if they were to bash Overhaul's admirable effort with the EE games.

    ;) Both games are awesome. And since you can interact between them, all the better! I love them both!

    BlackravenRavenslightCrevsDaakJuliusBorisov
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    @booinyoureyes‌ makes a point. I really miss the loading screens. I've always felt this way, but I've never seen anyone else bring it up. I wish EE could have found them a place somewhere else in the game. Bg2 also had tips and jokes in the loading screens, that told you all the little thing you didn't know but should have. Like you need fire and acid to kill trolls. Beholders are scary and don't go near them. Remember to get up and eat once a day. I also miss the original cutscenes. I like the new ones, I guess, but the style doesn't fit the game. @quartz said it best. Bg1 was gritty, hard, and hardcore. Bg2 was far more polished, mainstream, and nice to the player. We can hardly complain though. If so badly say "hey guys, I'm going to fix all the thing you're bitching about!" And then does it, how can we go and complain that he fixed all the things we were bitching about, and want them back? I shall call this the nostalgia paradox.

    booinyoureyesQuartzRavenslightJuliusBorisov
  • ErgErg Member Posts: 1,756
    edited June 2014
    element said:

    the thing I miss most is the helmets from vanilla bg, the bg2 helmets are horrible by comparison

    That's one of the reasons why, IMO, including 1PP by default in BG:EE, instead of keeping it a separate mod, has been a huge mistake. In any version of BG, except the EE, you can freely choose among one the following styles:

    [spoiler=style1]image[/spoiler]

    [spoiler=style2]image[/spoiler]

    [spoiler=style3]image[/spoiler]

    [spoiler=style4]image[/spoiler]
    and the same applies to shields, armours, etc.

    CrevsDaakelementJuliusBorisov
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438

    c) Weapon masteries were far more powerful/efficient, plus one category used to affect many different weapons.

    I believe the proficiency bonuses in the EEs are the same as they were in vBG1. Unless you're talking about gaining a full extra attack going from 4 to 5 pips in vBG1, whereas in the EEs you only get +1/2. But seeing as how you couldn't get to 5 pips without modding your game in vBG1, I think that's somewhat irrelevant.

    But yeah, having the broader weapon categories was nice in the first game, where you're a lower level and have less proficiencies to spread around.

  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,290
    It would be neat to see those reinserted back into the game, I agree. :-)

    BlackravenDemonoid_Limewire
  • TalonflightTalonflight Member Posts: 8
    I've never actually played the Enhanced Editions, though i am salivating over them on Steam at the moment.

    However, I AM starting up a new roleplaying campaign using EasyTutu, starting from Baldurs Gate and going through all the expansions all the way to Throne of Bhaal. If anyone is interested, feel free to messege me!

    Blackraven
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