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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited December 2017
    America was set up with a system, that congress would be represented by Senators of each State, Each senator is pressured both by his state and other factors (special interests), that is how it should be viewed, the idea that if one political party has a slim majority suddenly they can pass anything they want is not reality, and not even what we should encourage.

    The entire system is built to encourage or enforce compromise, so each State has a chance of representation.

    Republicans used to compromise as a minority all the time after Eisenhow, Democrats used to as well, they can again despite whomever has a majority in whatever house or Senate, History shows it can be done, and it used to be done.

    No political party should be so stubborn headed that they act obstructionist as they do nowadays, no minority political party should expect to get anywhere near what they mostly want because they lost the votes of the American people for the seats.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    vanatos said:

    America was set up with a system, that congress would be represented by Senators of each State, Each senator is pressured both by his state and other factors (special interests), that is how it should be viewed, the idea that if one political party has a slim majority suddenly they can pass anything they want is not reality, and not even what we should encourage.

    The entire system is built to encourage or enforce compromise, so each State has a chance of representation.

    Republicans used to compromise as a minority all the time after Eisenhow as a minority, Democrats used to, they can again despite whomever has a majority in whatever house or Senate, History shows it can be done, and it used to be done.

    But it won't be, because we have been hopelessly polarized since at least 2003. And will remain so. And until that isn't the case (and I don't believe it will be again, nor am I interested in it being so considering what the other side looks like) then the way you enact your priorities and agenda is to WIN, and then exert power. Which, by the way, Democrats suck balls at doing when compared to Republicans. Which is my major gripe with them. You are talking about a method of American politics that no longer exists. It's fine to hope for it, but it's not what we have.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited December 2017
    I agree, we're hopelessly polarized now which is a major problem.
    Both parties are at fault since they act like this identically.

    It won't be this way forever, it may be this way for the rest of our generation.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Why didn't the Republican government do funding a week or month ago for disaster relief? Or children health care program? Too busy with tax cuts for the rich.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    They have for those things, the reason why spending bills have to go through such arduous process is because of the arduous process, all spending effects yearly budgets, and depending on what type of bill it can make it much harder to pass future stuff especially if it has to go through pseudo-third party review.

    Many people don't understand that the Government is a place of process, they worship process and everything depends on process, thats why when you look at how the delegates work, or how congress sessions are handled, it looks bizarre, arcane and weird.

    They obsess over process.

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Democrats aren't voting for the stop-gap for two reasons:

    1.) They knew it is not the final bill, and knew that since it was designed to only last 3 weeks, there as no way Republicans WEREN'T going to pass it (since it was designed to avoid passing the actual budget).

    2.) They aren't willing to compromise on only partial funding of CHIP, the Dreamers, and cuts to vital social programs. And since they have no control over anything that is happening and haven't been consulted about a single thing all year that mattered, and considering (and again, this is especially true of Pelosi in the House) they are sick of having to provide votes for seriously flawed Republican budgets simply to keep the government functioning because Republicans, even after 8 years, have NO IDEA how to get their far-right Freedom Caucus in order. Pelosi bailed out Boehner every year with Democratic votes. The Senate Republican's theft of the Supreme Court seat, the health-care votes, and, (the final nail in the coffin) the tax bill have (possibly) finally convinced them that they and their constituents will reap no reward or benefit from them acting like the responsible adults AGAIN. This is about Merrick Garland and Trump. That was the bridge too far. That, and the fact that they have next to no input on anything.

    It boils down to this. When Democrats were in control from 2006-2010, they just passed budgets. Pelosi and Harry Reid knew how control their caucuses. Republicans can't control the far-right faction of about 40-50 members that were swept in on the Tea Party wave. Boehner couldn't, and Ryan can't. Nancy Pelosi has been handing them votes for the budget for years. Now they appear to need them AGAIN. This is very inside baseball and probably of interest to almost no regular people, but this is the dynamic. The only dynamic the PUBLIC is going to see is a party that was handed full control of every branch of government who can't get their shit in order to do anything but pass massive tax cuts.

    I personally AM interested in the arcane details and process in the same way I am interested in watching sports. So I know what is going on here. There is zero chance we wouldn't have had a budget with full CHIP funding, disaster relief etc etc etc with a Democratic Congress and President. The reason we know this is because Democrats don't have a problem spending. It is the MAIN argument their opponents use against them. Of course they would be throwing the money at these issues if they were in charge. They believe in government more than the other side. No one disputes this. Not me, not anyone.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    edited December 2017
    Ryan is a much worser speaker then Boehner, whom at least tried to work with Obama which i credit him for, and Reid was better.

    Politicians have been getting worser and pettier as time goes on.

    I don't particularly look forward to the Democrat parties future prospects, more supreme court judge vacancies will appear, the economy at least for now is doing well which will give Trump momentum.

    Still waiting for a good candidate for the democratic party, Bernie unfortunately will be approaching too much in his advanced age imo, Tulsi perhaps but she seems to have dropped off the radar recently, Perez hasn't been impressive at all.

    Be good to get an old school JFK-style democrat, but they seemed to have left.

    Times running out to generate momentum for the coming mid-terms, Trump got his tax bill so i particularly would like the Democrat party to be strengthened and on a more equal footing with the Republicans.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    vanatos said:

    Ryan is a much worser speaker then Boehner, whom at least tried to work with Obama which i credit him for, and Reid was better.

    Politicians have been getting worser and pettier as time goes on.

    I don't particularly look forward to the Democrat parties future prospects, more supreme court judge vacancies will appear, the economy at least for now is doing well which will give Trump momentum.

    Still waiting for a good candidate for the democratic party, Bernie unfortunately will be approaching too much in his advanced age imo, Tulsi perhaps but she seems to have dropped off the radar recently, Perez hasn't been impressive at all.

    Be good to get an old school JFK-style democrat, but they seemed to have left.

    Times running out to generate momentum for the coming mid-terms, Trump got his tax bill so i particularly would like the Democrat party to be strengthened and on a more equal footing with the Republicans.

    Tom Perez is doing what he should, which is keeping the DNC under the radar after the disaster of Debbie-Wasserman-Schultz and focusing their main effort on get out the vote efforts, which paid off in spades in the 2017 elections and in Alabama. He isn't there to be a leader, he is there to be an operator behind the scenes organizing. I don't want Tom Perez on TV, I want him working.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Alabama was more that the Republicans had a stupid candidate, and the Democrats actually put effort on knocking on doors.

    Debbie definitely was a massive liability for the DNC in retrospect, lots of money gone for no reason and fairly incompetent all round.

    The problem is that the DNC's funding seems to be quite worse then the GOP, come the mid-terms if the GOP empties their war chest which they seem to just be holding onto its gonna be tough for the DNC to break through.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    vanatos said:

    Alabama was more that the Republicans had a stupid candidate, and the Democrats actually put effort on knocking on doors.

    Debbie definitely was a massive liability for the DNC in retrospect, lots of money gone for no reason and fairly incompetent all round.

    The problem is that the DNC's funding seems to be quite worse then the GOP, come the mid-terms if the GOP empties their war chest which they seem to just be holding onto its gonna be tough for the DNC to break through.

    The parallels to 2010 right now are almost exact. Barring some massive earth-shaking event in the Republican's favor in the next 10 months, the House is gone. Democrats didn't know what hit them in 2010 either. And it was a beatdown at polls. Trump is polling WAY lower than Obama at this point even with his most optimistic numbers. Republicans DO know what is coming, which is why they backed the truck up to loot the place earlier this week. The Senate is much harder, but Alabama changed that entire dynamic. Trump voters will end the year seeing no wall being built, Obamacare not repealed (not totally) and a tax cut they don't understand by know vaguely isn't for them. Every Democrat in the country is counting the days to the 2018 to stick it Trump and the Republicans. All indications are it's going to be a historic bloodbath.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    The decider will simply be the economy, if it continues to improve, Republicans will make gains, if it doesn't then Democrats will make gains.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I think most people who vote don't care about the economy. They care about their job and their families well being. But "the economy doing well" doesn't help an unemployed coal miner in Kentucky. Stock market dividedends and soybean futures don't help that guy. Massive bonuses on Wall Street won't help either.

    Health insurance will be a big thing. That affects people and their families.

    A lot on the right are overly concerned about the war on Christmas/family values and keeping minorities down. The left wants minorities and people without power to have a bit more equity in society and that's intolerable to a large chunk of the right apparently.

    Trump has been an embarrassment to a lot of people at home and abroad. His bullying ways can be a positive to some until he inevitably turns on you. Most view it as a negative.
  • Grond0Grond0 Member Posts: 7,321
    vanatos said:

    I am pretty impressed the voters defied the Spanish Government literally trying to stop them from voting through police action.

    Be interesting how the EU, Spanish Government and the U.N. react to this.

    Rajoy's gambit seems to have failed.

    The EU is sticking to the 'nothing to do with us' line - which is very wise of them. I imagine the UN will do the same.

    I agree Rajoy's strategy has backfired badly. He chose to force elections in the belief that, against a divided opposition and with national government in control of the processes, he would be able to demonstrate that Catalonians wished to remain with Spain. In fact he's only confirmed (with a record turnout of over 80%) the previous couple of elections showing a narrow majority in favor of secession. In addition the Catalonians have clearly punished the governing Popular Party for their handling of the crisis by reducing their representation from 11 seats to 3 (the main beneficiary of that being the unionist Citizens party).

    The main reason for the secessionist pressure in recent years has been the rolling back since 2010 of some of the autonomy provisions for Catalonia included in the 2006 constitution (as a result of some pretty arcane processes in the Supreme Court). Given that those autonomy provisions were originally voted for in referendums across Spain an obvious solution would be to pass legislation to reinstate what was generally believed to be the constitutional settlement prior to 2010. It was the refusal of national government to even talk about this issue that led to Catalonia holding their illegal 'independence referendum' in the first place. In the light of yesterday's election result I hope that such talks become possible rather than again 'doubling-down' in pursuit of an undemocratic strategy.
  • ZaghoulZaghoul Member, Moderator Posts: 3,938
    edited December 2017
    Just for the record, it would have been easier for me to buy guns than get the proper medication I needed recently for PTSD. Alot of doctors, not psychiatrists (or psych nurse practitioners) are pushing antidepressants like skittles, for any talk resembling that of mental distress. It is a shame that is the way it is and has come to that with the way the drug reps have infiltrated doctors offices, pushing their newest and bestest junk in the market. Meanwhile ppl are committing suicide over the wrong diagnosis ( I was misdiagnosed and to almost twist his arm to get a referral).
    We are experiencing similar blowback from the over prescribing of antibiotics for anything resembling cold or flu. Antibiotics as we know do not attack viruses but the overuse of them has contributed to the mutation and resistance of both bacteria and viruses, leading to super versions of both.

    Id like to get in front of congress but I imagine no one would show up worth a hoot. I hope I can gain better control again and attempt it.

    I still like the analogy of the roving bandit vs the stationary bandit for govt. Yes, the govt. does offer some benefits over the past where groups of 'robbers' (roving bandits) would come by and steal or kill for one's things. But the stationary bandit (the govt.) seems to be getting more out of control over time with things such as taxes and fines as mentioned by @Mathsorcerer.
    The stationary bandit that is our govt needs a big wake up as to what it is the cause of and does not take responsibility (truly) to help rectify.

    EDIT: I should also mention that for pharmaceutical companies there is more money to be made in developing the newest and bestest drug for chronic conditions as compared to antibiotics and anti virals, so not as many are working on developing stronger antibiotics and anti virals as a whole. or as least that is what it seems like to me.

  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438
    CamDawg said:

    Second, Trump's historically low approval ratings despite a good economy should scare the bejeesus out of Republicans, since the economy is usually the greatest factor in the approval ratings.

    Just in case there's any bejeesus left, Generic Democrat currently leads Generic Republican on the congressional ballots by an average of 12 points. This is the largest polling margin held by a minority party at this point before a midterm (data goes back to 1938). 538 has a pretty good poll roundup.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    CamDawg said:

    CamDawg said:

    Second, Trump's historically low approval ratings despite a good economy should scare the bejeesus out of Republicans, since the economy is usually the greatest factor in the approval ratings.

    Just in case there's any bejeesus left, Generic Democrat currently leads Generic Republican on the congressional ballots by an average of 12 points. This is the largest polling margin held by a minority party at this point before a midterm (data goes back to 1938). 538 has a pretty good poll roundup.
    I'm a complete pessimist on most things, but I'm seeing trends and numbers that all point to a year like 1994, 2006, or 2010. There is no real way to counter out of power party enthusiasm to vote in the off-year. Particularly when every Republican in the country is going to look like one word on the ballot. They'll see an (R), and that will mean "Trump". And they'll vote for their opponent.

    And as was mentioned, that same analysis has the economy polling as "doing well" in the 60s. Which means it isn't the driving factor behind the numbers. Bottom line: mid-term voters don't come out to reward the party in power, they come out to punish it.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    A six year old was shot and killed by police in Texas as they were chasing a woman who was suspected to be a car thief. The woman who seems to be unrelated to the child was also killed. The woman was found to be unarmed but police are claiming she totally had a gun and was presenting it during various parts of the chase.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-boy-age-6-killed-deputy-involved-shooting-days-christmas-n832166

    What's the argument here? The six year old should have been armed? If guns weren't so prevalent in society, the cops would not be so shoot happy. They are literally trained to fear for their lives all the time so they just assume everyone is a maniac armed with a gun. They are told that if they don't treat everyone as a threat, they might end up dead. Which is true once you give the average person a tool that can kill with a squeeze of a finger.
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037
    The arguments here are that if you run from the police they will assume you are guilty (whether or not you are actually guilty is, at that point, irrelevant) and if you act in *any* way which causes them to *think* you have a gun they will assume you have one and act accordingly, consequences be damned. I don't necessarily trust law enforcement officials--too many of them are corrupt and/or like to use their badge as a legitimate reason to bully people--but when your choice is "comply or die" only an idiot chooses "death".

    Did she *actually* act in a manner which caused them to think she had a gun? *shrug* None of us were there so we have no way of knowing. Idle speculation here will get us nowhere.

    This poor little 6-year-old was a tragic accident, not a case of police shooting first and asking questions later or mistaking his toy for a weapon as they did with Tamir Rice. This is not a "we need gun control" case.
  • CamDawgCamDawg Member, Developer Posts: 3,438

    The arguments here are that if you run from the police they will assume you are guilty

    The exact opposite of this is taught at the academy.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    CamDawg said:

    The arguments here are that if you run from the police they will assume you are guilty

    The exact opposite of this is taught at the academy.
    It seems clear (on a broad scale) that whatever is being taught is either being forgotten or overridden by the communal culture police marinate in day after day, or that the training itself has gone off the rails. For starters, no more of this six-month training crap. It needs to require a 4-year degree (and pay should reflect this as well). A job of this kind of responsibility shouldn't just be handed off to anyone who can get through a couple of months of on the job training. It should require more commitment and effort than that. That alone will go a long way to weeding out the so-called "bad apples" who commit these acts.

    But beyond that, it's is well past time (considering the well-known mantra of the "thin blue line") for cops to actually start speaking out when stuff like this happens, instead of their unions getting behind and defending killer cops no matter WHAT video or other evidence there is in a case. It's reached the point of absurdity, where the bunker mentality among police departments has caused them to start viewing the cities and neighborhoods they are supposed to protect as territory to be occupied instead (or, given the massive amount of military equipment being thrown at them to use, the phrase "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" comes to mind). The moment cops started referring to the rest of us as "civilians", we were already in deep shit. This stuff has been happening in black communities in this country since the end of slavery, but since 9/11, it's totally gotten out of hand, and is now completely pervasive. The only reason we even know about these incidents is the technology of cell-phone cameras (and the fact that everyone has them). You would THINK that would change their behavior, but they are so immune to consequences (and know that to be the case) that they don't seem to CARE that they are being filmed. This is why body-cams are proving to be almost worthless. It's not making any difference. And that is startling.
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    CamDawg said:

    The arguments here are that if you run from the police they will assume you are guilty

    The exact opposite of this is taught at the academy.
    But they do tell you everyone you encounter is a possible threat armed with a deadly weapon who can end your life. Be afraid!
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    CBSNews analyze tax bill, Most Americans will pay less Tax.
    Three families were brought up and their taxes were analyzed, they would all pay less under the new bill.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-the-tax-bill-will-affect-three-american-families/
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    edited December 2017
    Do Americans Want a Tax Cut or

    image
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited December 2017
    Given the death in recent days of Cardinal Bernard Law, as well as having last week having watched the wonderful film "Spotlight" (a dramatized account of the Boston Globe investigative team who uncovered the depths of the clergy sex abuse scandal), it is important to underscore how important such work is to a functioning society. In the current climate where even the IDEA of journalism is under attack, it's worth pointing out that the entire Catholic community of Boston (and around the globe) was at least vaguely aware of a problem, that was too uncomfortable for them to confront until forced to be the media.

    "Spotlight" is currently streaming on Netflix, highly recommended.
  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    FBI arrests Islamic radicalized man for planned terrorist attack on Christmas in San Francisco.

    https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Man-Accused-Plotting-Possible-Terror-Attack-San-Francisco-FBI-465957673.html
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    Given the death in recent days of Cardinal Bernard Law, as well as having last week having watched the wonderful film "Spotlight" (a dramatized account of the Boston Globe investigative team who uncovered the depths of the clergy sex abuse scandal), it is important to underscore how important such work is to a functioning society. In the current climate where even the IDEA of journalism is under attack, it's worth pointing out that the entire Catholic community of Boston (and around the globe) was at least vaguely aware of a problem, that was too uncomfortable for them to confront until forced to be the media.

    "Spotlight" is currently streaming on Netflix, highly recommended.

    That's a pretty good movie. Saw it a while ago but that list of sex abusers in the church at the end was memorable.

    Sometimes the Press can overcome institutionalized criminal activities (like the covering up of sex crimes or Watergate).



  • vanatosvanatos Member Posts: 876
    Hillary Clinton was removed from the Watergate investigation for unethical behavior.

    Ironic.
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