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Politics. The feel in your country.

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  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    AT&T didn't even wait 48 hours after the official end of Net Neutrality to make their first move:

    http://bgr.com/2018/02/23/att-net-neutrality-wireless-plans-ugh/

    This is a problem? Why wouldn't they offer free access to content they own? To me that's an incentive to purchase ATT services. Comcast is free to offer the same access to services they own so that seems to be free market at work. Unless they block services they don't own which doesn't seem to be the case (yet anyway).
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    Balrog99 said:

    AT&T didn't even wait 48 hours after the official end of Net Neutrality to make their first move:

    http://bgr.com/2018/02/23/att-net-neutrality-wireless-plans-ugh/

    This is a problem? Why wouldn't they offer free access to content they own? To me that's an incentive to purchase ATT services. Comcast is free to offer the same access to services they own so that seems to be free market at work. Unless they block services they don't own which doesn't seem to be the case (yet anyway).
    Give it time. It will happen incrementally, and by the time most of the public notices, the game will be over.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Balrog99 said:

    Arguably, if the on-campus police officer was not the only one around, he might have been able to respond more effectively. A team of police officers is better equipped to deal with a shooter situation than a single man.

    There is no way even the US can afford a team of police officers patrolling every school! The logic of armed teachers only works if all of them (or at least 1/4 or so) are armed. I sincerely doubt that that many would be willing to go through the rigorous training that would (and should) be required in order to carry weapons on school premises. The only other way I can see the Republican idea working is if even the students are allowed to concealed carry. However, the potential huge increase in the amount of available guns on school property would be a disaster waiting to happen! I'm a conservative and even I can see that armed teachers are not the answer. I've changed my views over the past few years and think that a ban on assault rifles makes good sense. My dad would argue with me until Hell freezes over but his idea that those weapons would help if the government chose to oppress their own people is hopelessly outdated. No amount of AR15's or AK 47's would protect the average citizen if the military was persuaded to attack them. Look at the casualty lists for the Iraq wars. An army of an entire nation with pretty sophisticated tech had absolutely no chance against us. A militia armed with only assault rifles would be cannon-fodder compared to that...
    There is also this paradox: generally, those on the right (historically) have been more outspoken in favor of law enforcement AND the military. They also now seem to be the people who are insisting that, if push comes to shove, they will need their guns in case they have to KILL them in an armed revolution. Moreover, the NRA going full-bore after the FBI and law enforcement (who they have supported to the hilt for DECADES) shows just how shook they really are about all this.
    In this right-wing logic it would be effective for at best the first week or two. After that, an organized law enforcement (or more likely military) would shred these militias. I'm a realist so I don't agree that an armed populace would have a prayer in their doomsday scenarios. My dad even goes so far as to suggest that he and his friends could beat the Chinese (or whatever military decides they'd have chance attacking us). I'm sorry, but any country (or group of countries) that could successfully invade the US would not be afraid of a bunch of amateur Rambos!
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    Balrog99 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    Arguably, if the on-campus police officer was not the only one around, he might have been able to respond more effectively. A team of police officers is better equipped to deal with a shooter situation than a single man.

    There is no way even the US can afford a team of police officers patrolling every school! The logic of armed teachers only works if all of them (or at least 1/4 or so) are armed. I sincerely doubt that that many would be willing to go through the rigorous training that would (and should) be required in order to carry weapons on school premises. The only other way I can see the Republican idea working is if even the students are allowed to concealed carry. However, the potential huge increase in the amount of available guns on school property would be a disaster waiting to happen! I'm a conservative and even I can see that armed teachers are not the answer. I've changed my views over the past few years and think that a ban on assault rifles makes good sense. My dad would argue with me until Hell freezes over but his idea that those weapons would help if the government chose to oppress their own people is hopelessly outdated. No amount of AR15's or AK 47's would protect the average citizen if the military was persuaded to attack them. Look at the casualty lists for the Iraq wars. An army of an entire nation with pretty sophisticated tech had absolutely no chance against us. A militia armed with only assault rifles would be cannon-fodder compared to that...
    There is also this paradox: generally, those on the right (historically) have been more outspoken in favor of law enforcement AND the military. They also now seem to be the people who are insisting that, if push comes to shove, they will need their guns in case they have to KILL them in an armed revolution. Moreover, the NRA going full-bore after the FBI and law enforcement (who they have supported to the hilt for DECADES) shows just how shook they really are about all this.
    In this right-wing logic it would be effective for at best the first week or two. After that, an organized law enforcement (or more likely military) would shred these militias. I'm a realist so I don't agree that an armed populace would have a prayer in their doomsday scenarios. My dad even goes so far as to suggest that he and his friends could beat the Chinese (or whatever military decides they'd have chance attacking us). I'm sorry, but any country (or group of countries) that could successfully invade the US would not be afraid of a bunch of amateur Rambos!
    Sounds like they watched Red Dawn one too many times....
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Balrog99 said:

    AT&T didn't even wait 48 hours after the official end of Net Neutrality to make their first move:

    http://bgr.com/2018/02/23/att-net-neutrality-wireless-plans-ugh/

    This is a problem? Why wouldn't they offer free access to content they own? To me that's an incentive to purchase ATT services. Comcast is free to offer the same access to services they own so that seems to be free market at work. Unless they block services they don't own which doesn't seem to be the case (yet anyway).
    Give it time. It will happen incrementally, and by the time most of the public notices, the game will be over.
    The game will never be over in a free market. Look at Netflix for example. If those companies overcharge too much somebody will undercut their prices. That's the beauty of capitalism. The only way it wouldn't work is if the government gets involved..
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited February 2018

    Balrog99 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    Arguably, if the on-campus police officer was not the only one around, he might have been able to respond more effectively. A team of police officers is better equipped to deal with a shooter situation than a single man.

    There is no way even the US can afford a team of police officers patrolling every school! The logic of armed teachers only works if all of them (or at least 1/4 or so) are armed. I sincerely doubt that that many would be willing to go through the rigorous training that would (and should) be required in order to carry weapons on school premises. The only other way I can see the Republican idea working is if even the students are allowed to concealed carry. However, the potential huge increase in the amount of available guns on school property would be a disaster waiting to happen! I'm a conservative and even I can see that armed teachers are not the answer. I've changed my views over the past few years and think that a ban on assault rifles makes good sense. My dad would argue with me until Hell freezes over but his idea that those weapons would help if the government chose to oppress their own people is hopelessly outdated. No amount of AR15's or AK 47's would protect the average citizen if the military was persuaded to attack them. Look at the casualty lists for the Iraq wars. An army of an entire nation with pretty sophisticated tech had absolutely no chance against us. A militia armed with only assault rifles would be cannon-fodder compared to that...
    There is also this paradox: generally, those on the right (historically) have been more outspoken in favor of law enforcement AND the military. They also now seem to be the people who are insisting that, if push comes to shove, they will need their guns in case they have to KILL them in an armed revolution. Moreover, the NRA going full-bore after the FBI and law enforcement (who they have supported to the hilt for DECADES) shows just how shook they really are about all this.
    In this right-wing logic it would be effective for at best the first week or two. After that, an organized law enforcement (or more likely military) would shred these militias. I'm a realist so I don't agree that an armed populace would have a prayer in their doomsday scenarios. My dad even goes so far as to suggest that he and his friends could beat the Chinese (or whatever military decides they'd have chance attacking us). I'm sorry, but any country (or group of countries) that could successfully invade the US would not be afraid of a bunch of amateur Rambos!
    Sounds like they watched Red Dawn one too many times....
    I loved that movie when I was younger. When I grew up, I realized that Cuba would never have the resources, even with Russia's help, to achieve anything near that scenario. Still a great film for the underdog though. I will say that the only reason Afghanistan is still around as a country is that even the Soviets didn't seem to want to exterminate an entire country's population. It was within their capability even as the US could have exterminated the Vietnamese if we'd really wanted to. That gives me some faith in humankind (even if just a little).

    Edit: I also fell in love with Leah Thompson because of that flick!
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    If criminals have guns give them longer sentences when they are caught.

    Judges already factor in the presence of a firearm in during sentencing hearings
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    If criminals have guns give them longer sentences when they are caught.

    Judges already factor in the presence of a firearm in during sentencing hearings
    And rightfully so in my opinion...
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164

    You have separate white collar prisons? How did that happen? And as opposed to what? Working class blue collar prisons?

    It's more of a "non-violent prison". Many inmates there are in for financial crimes, hence the "white collar" nickname.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited February 2018

    You have separate white collar prisons? How did that happen? And as opposed to what? Working class blue collar prisons?

    It's more of a "non-violent prison". Many inmates there are in for financial crimes, hence the "white collar" nickname.
    Because clearly stealing millions of dollars from your company or the government via tax evasion is so much worse than robbing a bank or dealing marijuana on a street corner...

    Edit: IMHO those assholes should have the same access to 'Bubba' as the child molesters and rapists.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited February 2018
    Well, in modern days an armed population of course can't "compete" with a professional army but can :
    - One more "defense layer"
    - Increase the production of weapons
    - Reduce the training costs since the majority of new soldiers have a little gun knowledge
    - Produce military equipment. If Ronnie Barrett was born in any strict gun control country, he will probably never be able to develop his weapons

    Also note that the "barbarians" defeated Romans in Teutoburg forest. In modern days there are no way that a homemade grenades can compete with sophisticated ultra expensive grenades or intercontinental missiles but say that they are completely useless is just silly.
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,164
    Balrog99 said:

    You have separate white collar prisons? How did that happen? And as opposed to what? Working class blue collar prisons?

    It's more of a "non-violent prison". Many inmates there are in for financial crimes, hence the "white collar" nickname.
    Because clearly stealing millions of dollars from your company or the government via tax evasion is so much worse than robbing a bank or dealing marijuana on a street corner...
    Security levels aren't designed around the level of punishment but the likelihood of inmates harming each other. Selling marijuana illegally on a street corner gets you in the same prison as the guy who was guilty of securities fraud.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    edited February 2018

    Well, in modern days an armed population of course can't "compete" with a professional army but can :
    - One more "defense layer"
    - Increase the production of weapons
    - Reduce the training costs since the majority of new soldiers have a little gun knowledge
    - Produce military equipment. If Ronnie Barrett was born in any strict gun control country, he will probably never be able to develop his weapons

    Also note that there are a lot of important militia examples in history for example the "barbarians" that defeated Romans in Teutoburg forest. In modern days there are no way that a homemade grenades can compete with sophisticated ultra expensive grenades or intercontinental missiles.

    There was a lot more in play in your Teutonburg Forest example. The Romans didn't have night vision or motion detectors for one thing. The level of disparity was nowhere near what it is today. Sorry!

    Edit: The Romans also didn't have satellites...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367
    Balrog99 said:

    Well, in modern days an armed population of course can't "compete" with a professional army but can :
    - One more "defense layer"
    - Increase the production of weapons
    - Reduce the training costs since the majority of new soldiers have a little gun knowledge
    - Produce military equipment. If Ronnie Barrett was born in any strict gun control country, he will probably never be able to develop his weapons

    Also note that there are a lot of important militia examples in history for example the "barbarians" that defeated Romans in Teutoburg forest. In modern days there are no way that a homemade grenades can compete with sophisticated ultra expensive grenades or intercontinental missiles.

    There was a lot more in play in your Teutonburg Forest example. The Romans didn't have night vision or motion detectors for one thing. The level of disparity was nowhere near what it is today. Sorry!

    Edit: The Romans also didn't have satellites.
    I would imagine that one of the first things that our military would do is shut down GPS and most likely the internet too...
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    In what may be a creepy coincidence, or a sign of a Terminator or Matrix-like takeover of machines, I typed the words "Red Dawn" into a reply to @Balrog99 , and now Red Dawn clips are showing up in my Youtube feed.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    In what may be a creepy coincidence, or a sign of a Terminator or Matrix-like takeover of machines, I typed the words "Red Dawn" into a reply to @Balrog99 , and now Red Dawn clips are showing up in my Youtube feed.

    Good thing so many good actors & actresses were involved in that movie then. The AI might be influenced by good character portrayals!
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Balrog99 said:

    Balrog99 said:

    AT&T didn't even wait 48 hours after the official end of Net Neutrality to make their first move:

    http://bgr.com/2018/02/23/att-net-neutrality-wireless-plans-ugh/

    This is a problem? Why wouldn't they offer free access to content they own? To me that's an incentive to purchase ATT services. Comcast is free to offer the same access to services they own so that seems to be free market at work. Unless they block services they don't own which doesn't seem to be the case (yet anyway).
    Give it time. It will happen incrementally, and by the time most of the public notices, the game will be over.
    The game will never be over in a free market. Look at Netflix for example. If those companies overcharge too much somebody will undercut their prices. That's the beauty of capitalism. The only way it wouldn't work is if the government gets involved..
    There is now nothing stopping at&t from giving free access to crapostream and throttling Netflix.

    See the problem here?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963

    If criminals have guns give them longer sentences when they are caught.

    Judges already factor in the presence of a firearm in during sentencing hearings
    We need to be tougher on gun crimes. Harden our laws. There's too many soft limp laws for guns killers.
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited February 2018
    Balrog99 said:

    Well, in modern days an armed population of course can't "compete" with a professional army but can :
    - One more "defense layer"
    - Increase the production of weapons
    - Reduce the training costs since the majority of new soldiers have a little gun knowledge
    - Produce military equipment. If Ronnie Barrett was born in any strict gun control country, he will probably never be able to develop his weapons

    Also note that there are a lot of important militia examples in history for example the "barbarians" that defeated Romans in Teutoburg forest. In modern days there are no way that a homemade grenades can compete with sophisticated ultra expensive grenades or intercontinental missiles.

    There was a lot more in play in your Teutonburg Forest example. The Romans didn't have night vision or motion detectors for one thing. The level of disparity was nowhere near what it is today. Sorry!

    Edit: The Romans also didn't have satellites...
    AS i've said in modern days(...)" , in past was different. How USA gained his independence? Fighting the greatest empire in world. Note that all historical examples of armed resistance against a far superior enemy was using Guerrilla warfare not conventional warfare.

    Guerrilla warfare was always effective ( http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Guerrilla_warfare )

    That is not perfect, a lot of Eastern Europeans tried to fight Bolshevik communists using Guerrilla tactics after ww2 and din't managed to get his independence but at least they have a little chance. Is better to have 0,000(...)1% chance of freedom than a certain slavery. And i will say again because some people have problem understanding. I don't think that militia + conventional warfare can defeat the biggest army of the world. I an only saying that it can put a resistance and be another defense layer.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    We had a group of gun-nut assholes try this shit a couple of years ago. The Bundy Brigade. First, because daddy didn't want to pay his grazing fees, they took up sniper positions against federal agents. They walked on that. Then they engaged in an armed-takeover of federal land where they were allowed to play pretend revolutionary for over a month before law enforcement actually moved in on them. It was possibly the greatest example of white privilege I have ever seen in my lifetime. And then, a couple of weeks ago, the rest of them got off. What the hell do these people even have to worry about?? They've proven that you can take up arms against federal agents, and that you can engage in open sedition on national television, and the right jury won't even convict you for it. Pretty neat deal.
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    We had a group of gun-nut assholes try this shit a couple of years ago. The Bundy Brigade. First, because daddy didn't want to pay his grazing fees, they took up sniper positions against federal agents. They walked on that. Then they engaged in an armed-takeover of federal land where they were allowed to play pretend revolutionary for over a month before law enforcement actually moved in on them. It was possibly the greatest example of white privilege I have ever seen in my lifetime. And then, a couple of weeks ago, the rest of them got off. What the hell do these people even have to worry about?? They've proven that you can take up arms against federal agents, and that you can engage in open sedition on national television, and the right jury won't even convict you for it. Pretty neat deal.

    And yet they accomplished nothing really...
  • Balrog99Balrog99 Member Posts: 7,367

    Balrog99 said:

    Well, in modern days an armed population of course can't "compete" with a professional army but can :
    - One more "defense layer"
    - Increase the production of weapons
    - Reduce the training costs since the majority of new soldiers have a little gun knowledge
    - Produce military equipment. If Ronnie Barrett was born in any strict gun control country, he will probably never be able to develop his weapons

    Also note that there are a lot of important militia examples in history for example the "barbarians" that defeated Romans in Teutoburg forest. In modern days there are no way that a homemade grenades can compete with sophisticated ultra expensive grenades or intercontinental missiles.

    There was a lot more in play in your Teutonburg Forest example. The Romans didn't have night vision or motion detectors for one thing. The level of disparity was nowhere near what it is today. Sorry!

    Edit: The Romans also didn't have satellites...
    AS i've said in modern days(...)" , in past was different. How USA gained his independence? Fighting the greatest empire in world. Note that all historical examples of armed resistance against a far superior enemy was using Guerrilla warfare not conventional warfare.

    Guerrilla warfare was always effective ( http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Guerrilla_warfare )

    That is not perfect, a lot of Eastern Europeans tried to fight Bolshevik communists using Guerrilla tactics after ww2 and din't managed to get his independence but at least they have a little chance. Is better to have 0,000(...)1% chance of freedom than a certain slavery. And i will say again because some people have problem understanding. I don't think that militia + conventional warfare can defeat the biggest army of the world. I an only saying that it can put a resistance and be another defense layer.
    The Soviets displayed restraint. The apocalypse feared by the far-right will display no restraint. Therefore, according to that logic, they would have no chance despite having access to assault rifles. That's what I see as the ultimate result of their philosophy anyway...
  • MathsorcererMathsorcerer Member Posts: 3,037

    Also, not for nothing, but there is an active investigation into whether the NRA laundered Russian money to help Trump during the campaign.

    This is grasping at straws. The NRA raises so much money from its donors here that it doesn't *need* to launder Russian money. That being said, it appears that the illogical fear of Russia from the 1950s is back, only this time is is "oligarchs and troll farms" rather than "communism".

    re: AT&T...they have a right to sponsor their own services. Notice that they aren't blocking anyone else's content or slowing it down, only making it so that their in-house service won't count against any bandwidth or usage cap.

    I am more concerned that Disney may remove *all* of its content from Netflix, which means no more street-level MCTVU shows--Jessica's second season is supposed to launch on 8 March.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    I don't think it's grasping at straws at all:

    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/national/article195231139.html

    Beyond that, it isn't FEAR of Russia, it's why in the hell it's just being accepted that this is how things are going to be going forward, ESPECIALLY considering every single conservative in the country, up until about 18 months ago, as you pointed out, thought Russia was our mortal enemy. Thought so for decades. But, that was when it was a communist country. It isn't a communist country anymore. Under Putin, it more closely resembles what the far-right and billionaire class in this country want. Oil and oligarchy, corruption so systemic it defies belief, a crackdown on LGBT rights etc etc etc. I'm not concerned that Russia is going to bomb us or attack us (as was the fear during the Cold War). I'm pissed off that absolutely NOTHING is being done about securing our elections. And yes, I am well aware we have interfered in elections since time immemorial. That hardly seems like a reason to just sit back and let them continue to push things. It wasn't JUST the disinformation. They penetrated the voter rolls. That is one step away from changing the votes themselves. If we had any sense at all in this country, we would be demanding an immediate change to paper ballots all across the country. Incidentally, the Virginia election in which Democrats pummeled Republicans across the State last November was the first one to go back to all paper ballots. A coincidence?? Probably. But maybe not. We should not be using electronic voting machines going forward.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    The National Association of School Resource Officers is dead-set against arming teachers, and give a comprehensive list of reasons:

    Should schools arm teachers, or others who are not law enforcement officers?

    NASRO strongly recommends that no firearms be on a school campus except those carried by carefully selected, specially trained school resource officers, who are by definition (see above) active, sworn law enforcement officers. There are several reasons for this recommendation:

    *Law enforcement officers who respond to an incident at a school could mistake for an assailant a teacher or any other armed person who is not in a uniform.

    *Anyone who hasn’t received the extensive training provided to law enforcement officers will likely be mentally unprepared to take a life, especially the life of a student assailant.

    *Firearm skills degrade quickly, which is why most law enforcement agencies require their officers to practice on a shooting range frequently (as often as once per month), under simulated, high-stress conditions. Anyone without such frequent, ongoing practice will likely have difficulty using a firearm safely and effectively.

    *In addition to maintaining marksmanship, ongoing firearms practice helps law enforcement officers overcome the physiological response to stress than can reduce the fine motor skills required to accurately fire a weapon.

    *Anyone who possesses a firearm on campus must be able to keep it both ready for use and absolutely secure. Law enforcement officers receive training that enables them to overcome attempts to access their weapons.

    *Discharging a firearm in a crowded school is an extremely risky action, with consequences that can include the wounding and/or death of innocent victims. Law enforcement officers receive training and practice in evaluating quickly the risks of firing. They hold their fire when the risks to others are too high.
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,850
    edited February 2018
    The Carrier Plant is the story that keeps on giving. Since promising to save jobs to make Trump look good in a PR stunt, then sending them to Mexico anyway after the cameras went away, United Technologies has now been awarded a 2.5 billion dollar no-bid contract with the Pentagon. The only surprising thing about this story is that it doesn't, on the surface, seem to involve anyone from Whitefish, Montana:

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/375285-manufacturing-giant-that-struck-trump-jobs-deal-receives-25-billion-dod
  • SorcererV1ct0rSorcererV1ct0r Member Posts: 2,176
    edited February 2018
    Grond0 said:

    Remember that before NFA(national firearms act), USA had almost no problems with guns.

    (....)
    The high homicide rate in USA during certain times was because :
    - Alcohol prohibition(in that paper, the number of homicides clearly starts to decline after prohibition ended)
    - Great depression(caused by FED)

    The Italian and Russian Mafia as well other gangs become much more powerful thanks to government. Note that a loot of gangsters still used suppressors and full auto weapons after the NFA. And your paper only talks about homicides.

    There are almost 330 millions guns in USA ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country ), and arround 8k crimes involving firearms ( https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11 ), that means the "used in crime" ratio of guns is 0.00005151515 or 0.005151515%, in other words guns are barely used on felonies. Take the rights of 99,999(...)% of population away because a minority is just silly.

    You will take the right of almost 100% of population because a small minority committed crimes? What is the next? I can't use more VPN because some people used to commit crimes? Can't use more Linux because some people committed crimes using some tools? Even if only good citizens will obey the law? Ban bitcoin because some people use to commit crime? Or that logic works only with guns?
This discussion has been closed.