NWN, does it still stand up?

SuperFeature

Let's be honest. There are a lot of titles that are classic but are hard to play today. For me, personally, Fallout 1, 2 and tactics have aged considerably, and unless you were in it's heyday, the nostalgia may not hold up for you. Neverwinter Nights is a game that came out when I was in high school and I never liked it half as much as I enjoyed the BG serious. Taking a look back, I wanted to give it a second try.

The consensus appears to be that NWN2 is still very playable but NWN has been forgotten. Is it not as playable as it's squeal? Any comments?

elminster

Its still has some active persistent worlds as I understand it.

Erg

I still prefer NWN1 to NWN2, despite the awful official campaigns, because it has better mods. Actually I liked some of the community made mods for NWN1 much more than anything else I've played (including BG and Morrowind).

Too bad they pulled the plug to NWN Vault. Some mods can still be downloaded at the New Neverwinter Vault, but they were unable to salvage all of them and currently the migration process is halted because the host file workaround doesn't work anymore.

CaloNord

I still like it. I don't know about any online activity but I still love a play through of NWN's from time to time. Graphically it's not as pretty as NWN2 and hasn't aged as gracefully as BG. BG actually has it's longer range high up camera style to it's own advantage.

Silverstar

The main campaign isn't something you can jump into without considerable Nostalgia Mode™ I think. It isn't bad, it just isn't good either. And since the story isn't good or immersing you'll notice a lot of the game's weaker parts when compared to the sequel or other RPGs. Hordes of the Underdark is as good as it always was in my opinion though. The story is good enough that the slightly clunky gameplay mechanics are forgotten.

So basically it depends on the campaign or individual module you're playing. For the most part there aren't any technical issues that prevents Neverwinter Nights from being played on newer operating systems or hardware which a lot of other "classics" suffer from, so that probably speaks in its favour.

ZanathKariashi

I prefer NWN FAR beyond NWN2. The interface in NWN 1 is utterly superior, and with mods the graphics can be comparable to NWN2.

Otherwise it's pretty much the same due to their bonehead decision to simply copy-past most of NWN's mechanics into NWN2 rather then improving on them via pre-existing mod content.

jjstraka34

I want to love the game, but the gameplay (which is ALWAYS more important than graphics) is just this side of atrocious. Nothing about it feels right compared to the Infinity Engine games. The graphics themselves, while technically "better" because they are 3D, are actually far less pleasing to the eye than the EE of Baldur's Gate when you get right down to it. And even with the fan patch it's buggy as hell. In the first hour of play recently the game wouldn't respond when I tried to rest or learn a spell without a reload of a saved game. And that is before even leaving the Academy. The pet and companion AI is horrendous as well.

Erg

@jjstraka34, most of the issues you are mentioning are addressed and fixed by mods. For example if you didn't like the pet/familiar AI in the original campaign try playing the Lords of Darkness series of mods by Fantus. You'll be amazed.

Kamigoroshi

NwN on its own is quite terrible to behold, no queston about that.

My favourite mod for this game is the Project Q, which replaces most of Bioware's bloody monster models with truly authentic ones. And, when used together with the PRCModuleUpdater, one can even enjoy the whole beauty of this project within the Official Campaigns as well. Best of all: no more horse-headed lizards and care bear orcs!

FinneousPJ

NWN is still the best game ever.

Mathsorcerer

I still pull out the really old games from time to time--Bard's Tale, Dragon Wars, Wasteland, SSI Gold Box series--and some older but not "really old" games like Fallout 1 and 2. I never got into NWN too much--never even got to the point where I left the city itself--but the wife and kids have played it through to completion, including the expansions.

Like first loves, I suspect the video games you play as a child or teenager tend to stay with you as you get older, even if only emotionally. Bard's Tale can, if I let it, take me back to 1986 which wasn't that bad of a year, in retrospect. NWN will likely do the same for our kids as they get older, so yes--it stands the test of time (for them, if not for me).

chrstnmonks

NWN is still worth a playthrough. I liked both 1&2. Give it awhirl

Khal

I personally never really liked NWN. Although it's been so long since I tried to play, that I probably wouldn't be able to remember why not.

dustbubsy

I actually enjoyed NWN, as well as the two expansions (seriously, Hordes of the Underdark was it? That was trying to do some interesting stuff).

One thing I like about the games is it's very fun to play as mages. In the Infinity Engine games I've yet to really have fun with spellcasters because of the annoying resting factor, and the micromanagement of 6 party members either making buffing tedious, or making spells obsolete altogether in favour of simple melee combat.

Resting in NWN is very quick and easy on the other hand, and you only have 2 characters plus a familiar (who is a lot more useful than in BG). Mages have the potential to be decent fighters as well - I think they're a good class to play the NWN games as (or Cleric, though I haven't tried that one.

deltago

The saving grace for NWN and what made it a great game was the PW and their community. Whatever type of game you were looking to play, you could find it in the Multiplayer section.

As the years past many of these communities (and the majority of people that resided in them) have up and vanished moving on to bigger, brighter shinier places making NWN less enjoyable now than in its hayday.

The main storyline was extremely subpar especially for a bioware game, however both the expansions were better in this regard, however, the official DLCs for the game didn't live up to most of the fan made mods. Graphic wise it didn't age that well. The camera is still better than NWN2 though.

Yes there are amazing mods that improve the game, have better story lines, graphics and the what not, but IMO, it is too much of a hassle to hunt them down for a few hours of game play.

So short answer. No.

Erg

deltago said:

Yes there are amazing mods that improve the game, have better story lines, graphics and the what not, but IMO, it is too much of a hassle to hunt them down for a few hours of game play.

@deltago, what you said about PW also applies to mods. There are mods for every taste: mods that are heavy on roleplay or hack & slash, mods with or without lots of puzzles, mods for children or for adults, mods with low magic settings or the opposite, mods for level 1 or level 40 characters, and everything in between.

Until two weeks ago, hunting mods for NWN was extremely easy as they were all stored on the site NWN Vault with full descriptions, comments, reviews, interviews to the authors, ratings, number of downloads, etc.

Now things are a bit more complicated as that site doesn't exist anymore and the New Neverwinter Vault it isn't as good yet. Only time will tell if the new site will grow to become a worthy replacement for the old one. However, most of those mods are still available and IMO still well worth to be found and played.

jjstraka34

Erg said:

@jjstraka34, most of the issues you are mentioning are addressed and fixed by mods. For example if you didn't like the pet/familiar AI in the original campaign try playing the Lords of Darkness series of mods by Fantus. You'll be amazed.

I'm impressed with the effort of the new vault, they are trying their hardest to get the thing up to old standards. Just out of curiosity, what type of mods/fixes besides the community patch should I be installing as a base to clean up some of the gameplay?? Or does the original campaign just have to suffer through it?? (and my god, if I ever hear the phrase "waterdhavian creatures" again I'm gonna scream)

kcwise

I enjoyed NWN a lot, even the original campaign, which puts me in the minority of internet chatter. I think at least some of the dislike leveled against it comes from people who wanted an extension of the Infinity Engine and were disappointed at what NWN became.

The fan made mods and ease of multiplayer gave the game a lot of replayability. Because of some of those mods I think I've spent more time playing NWN in total than any other RPG, with the possible exception of the BG games.

As for whether or not it holds up, I think NWN might actually hold up a bit better than BG with certain audiences. Although veteran BG fans scoff at the complaints of difficulty by new BG players, it is an issue which has chased more than a few people away. NWN, overall, is a much easier game to play. Particularly, since you essentially only have to worry about developing one character rather than four or more.

My advice, play NWN, and BG, and the Gold Box series, and every other RPG you can find!

SharGuidesMyHand

jjstraka34 said:

I want to love the game, but the gameplay (which is ALWAYS more important than graphics) is just this side of atrocious. Nothing about it feels right compared to the Infinity Engine games. The graphics themselves, while technically "better" because they are 3D, are actually far less pleasing to the eye than the EE of Baldur's Gate when you get right down to it.

This is how I've always felt about NWN, and 3D PC RPGs in general.

Although 3D graphics are supposed to be an improvement, somehow, they bring less life to the game. Cold, mechanical pixels like this,


...can never really replace to true artwork like this, IMO.

Erg

jjstraka34 said:

I'm impressed with the effort of the new vault, they are trying their hardest to get the thing up to old standards. Just out of curiosity, what type of mods/fixes besides the community patch should I be installing as a base to clean up some of the gameplay?? Or does the original campaign just have to suffer through it?? (and my god, if I ever hear the phrase "waterdhavian creatures" again I'm gonna scream)

@jjstraka34, I've only played the original campaign once and I have no desire to play it again, as I prefer much more several of the standalone mods, so I'm clearly not the best suited to give advice on how to improve the OC. However, considering that you were specifically mentioning the limits of the original AI, you should find this interesting.

Also, I'm not sure which community patch you mean, can you please clarify on that?

Kaltzor

I remember one of the main issues of NWN being the ability to have only one character + one henchman... 2 man parties in 3e are not all that good...

Erg

Kaltzor said:

I remember one of the main issues of NWN being the ability to have only one character + one henchman... 2 man parties in 3e are not all that good...

@Kaltzor, IIRC this is only true for the OC and Shadows of Undrentide. Hordes of the Underdark lets you have two henchman. However, the number of henchmen that can be used at one time can be set by mod authors to a higher number. Some mods can even let you have a full 6 men party, like in the example under the spoiler tag.

[spoiler=Enigma Island Part 3][/spoiler]

jjstraka34

Erg said:

jjstraka34 said:

I'm impressed with the effort of the new vault, they are trying their hardest to get the thing up to old standards. Just out of curiosity, what type of mods/fixes besides the community patch should I be installing as a base to clean up some of the gameplay?? Or does the original campaign just have to suffer through it?? (and my god, if I ever hear the phrase "waterdhavian creatures" again I'm gonna scream)

@jjstraka34, I've only played the original campaign once and I have no desire to play it again, as I prefer much more several of the standalone mods, so I'm clearly not the best suited to give advice on how to improve the OC. However, considering that you were specifically mentioning the limits of the original AI, you should find this interesting.

Also, I'm not sure which community patch you mean, can you please clarify on that?

Just the general overarching patch that the vault has on their site, v1.71 I think....thanks for the AI mod, I'm gonna install it over lunch.

deltago

kcwise said:

I enjoyed NWN a lot, even the original campaign, which puts me in the minority of internet chatter. I think at least some of the dislike leveled against it comes from people who wanted an extension of the Infinity Engine and were disappointed at what NWN became.

Not really. It mostly had to do with the rinse repeat of the first chapter.
Go to one area of the city, fight the exact same type of monster over and over. Fight a boss, return, go to another part of the city, fight the exact same type of monster, fight a boss repeat.

The other chapters opened up the story a bit, but the main campaign felt like it was just showing off the new hardware, not telling a story.

jjstraka34

After alot of tries at this game I'm coming to the conclusion that what bothers me most is that it just doesn't FEEL like D & D the way Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale do. I can't pinpoint what it is, or even defend my position, but the Infinity Engine games have a certain gravitas that this game lacks, for whatever reason.

kamuizin

Always have been an huge fan of NWN2, despite it's terrible OC. Just finshed and evil game of Mask of the Betrayer expansion a while ago and that was at the level of some nowdays games in terms of fun.

Then, i'm on Heroes of Might and Magic IV atm, enjoying it a lot, so my opinion can be a bit personal in matter of game tastes.

Kamigoroshi

jjstraka34 said:

After alot of tries at this game I'm coming to the conclusion that what bothers me most is that it just doesn't FEEL like D & D the way Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale do. I can't pinpoint what it is, or even defend my position, but the Infinity Engine games have a certain gravitas that this game lacks, for whatever reason.

Well, NwN is more akin to a plot-driven toolset presentation than a real game. At least that's the feeling I get from it. Never liked the way it handled terrain, maps and countless cut-off landscapes that abruptly end into nothingness. In that regard the game worlds of the IE titles feel much more 'complete' and exploration friendly.

FinneousPJ

If you're judging the game based on the original campaign, you're missing the point by a lightyear.

terzaerian

When I first got NWN way back in high school I was bothered by the linearity of the game, but reasoned that it was because of the switch to 3D that developers were just having to re-figure out how to do things.

Young, naive me would have never guessed in a million years that linear game-play was, in fact, the end-game developers were shooting for. Poor, foolish young terzaerian.