If Other BG1 NPCs Made the Transition to SoA
Dazzu
Member Posts: 950
The question is simple: how would you have handled it? What stats would've gone up? Where would they have spawned? What would their quest be? Would they be romancable, and if so, by who?
I'll start this off with an NPC that could've easily been in: Montaron
Montaron was better than everyone would think. His stat spread is more than viable with 16 Str, 17 dex and 15 Con. Str is not an issue with belts everywhere and his con gives him shortie saving throws that are much desired. A transition granting +1 Dex and +2 Con would more than help, and his other stats are irrelevant. He has enough Int for Mind Flayers anyway.
Montaron's availability would be via the Harper Quest. His corpse is handed to you by Xzar's killer, saying it's still fresh and suggests that prays for his soul. Whatever god she says is the temple that will revive him.
Monty's skill spread would be with Short Swords and some missile, either slings or Crossbows, maybe both? Monty might not have much in the way of quests, other than being hounded by both Harpers and Zhents. With Xzar now dead, he no longer feels tethered to them and would rather not risk his hide for them. He does feel some debt for you saving his life.
Monty would probably be a viable romance choice for females who are any race that isn't an elf. No care about stats or alignment (because those restrictions... I hate them so much! So much hate!)
Tensions would be very high with Jaheira and any animosity he has towards Korgan only really exists if Mazzy's in the party. The Harper is the only person he'll ever potentially fight, but only if the angry Harpers don't try to kill you first.
He won't come to blows with anyone else, but he might harass the goodlier folks as foolhearty.
Redemption might be a possibility either through Mazzy or Jaheira, but it'd be nice to keep some more folks evil, especially a thief that WON'T piss off all your knights.
Sadly, Monty wants you to sleep lightly, meaning you'll need to focus most of his skill points into the utility he's been shirking in favor of backstabbing power. I mean, he won't be worthless, but you'll need to spend about 2 or 3 levels on disarming and locks.
In battle, Monty's easy to use with the right Sling, Short Sword and whatever weapon you go for next... I believe the canon choice was axe?
So... go ahead, have fun. You get bonus points if you can rewrite a character added via mod too.
I'll start this off with an NPC that could've easily been in: Montaron
Montaron was better than everyone would think. His stat spread is more than viable with 16 Str, 17 dex and 15 Con. Str is not an issue with belts everywhere and his con gives him shortie saving throws that are much desired. A transition granting +1 Dex and +2 Con would more than help, and his other stats are irrelevant. He has enough Int for Mind Flayers anyway.
Montaron's availability would be via the Harper Quest. His corpse is handed to you by Xzar's killer, saying it's still fresh and suggests that prays for his soul. Whatever god she says is the temple that will revive him.
Monty's skill spread would be with Short Swords and some missile, either slings or Crossbows, maybe both? Monty might not have much in the way of quests, other than being hounded by both Harpers and Zhents. With Xzar now dead, he no longer feels tethered to them and would rather not risk his hide for them. He does feel some debt for you saving his life.
Monty would probably be a viable romance choice for females who are any race that isn't an elf. No care about stats or alignment (because those restrictions... I hate them so much! So much hate!)
Tensions would be very high with Jaheira and any animosity he has towards Korgan only really exists if Mazzy's in the party. The Harper is the only person he'll ever potentially fight, but only if the angry Harpers don't try to kill you first.
He won't come to blows with anyone else, but he might harass the goodlier folks as foolhearty.
Redemption might be a possibility either through Mazzy or Jaheira, but it'd be nice to keep some more folks evil, especially a thief that WON'T piss off all your knights.
Sadly, Monty wants you to sleep lightly, meaning you'll need to focus most of his skill points into the utility he's been shirking in favor of backstabbing power. I mean, he won't be worthless, but you'll need to spend about 2 or 3 levels on disarming and locks.
In battle, Monty's easy to use with the right Sling, Short Sword and whatever weapon you go for next... I believe the canon choice was axe?
So... go ahead, have fun. You get bonus points if you can rewrite a character added via mod too.
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Comments
The NPC that I would've most loved to have seen return for BG2 was Shar-Teel. Not only was she one of my favorite NPCs in BG1, but I would've liked to have seen her return dualed to a thief (perhaps at fighter level 6), which would've helped address the problem of BG2's lack of both viable thieves and evil NPC options. Not sure where would be the most appropriate place to find her though - maybe in that bar in the rugged Docks District?
I would've liked to have seen Kivan return as well - perhaps with a point or two more (15 or 16) constitution.
Also, I've always felt that BG2 blew a golden opportunity to make Coran joinable after he expresses loneliness and aimlessness following the death of his wife.
What would have been better would be to determine which NPCs show up in BG2 depending on your own alignment and the abilities you had at the end of BG1 - if you leaned more to the red specials, more evil NPCs would show up; blue would give you more good-aligned NPCs, while neutrals would have a chance of showing up either way. It also might solve the eternal conundrum of Chateau Irenicus, where every charname, no matter who was following him, end up with the canon party.
You get use to fighting with certain NPCs and when you have to change...
She won't probably be romanceable, she'll be able to Dual-class to Thief like in BG1, she might or might nor be a Berkserker... She would have some clashing dialogs with Aerie and even more with Nalia. She will first treat Korgan as an idiot, but then she'll accept he's a good fighter and keep (some minimal) respect for him. Later in the game you'll met a man who says something that disgust her, she'll ran after him and he'll call the guards: you'll have to kill the Amnish Soldiers/Cowled Wizards/Knights of the Order of the Most Radiant Heart that spawn, your Reputation will drop, yes, but it's the price for Shar-Teel >:D
Most thieves fall into this category, but the one single class thief besides Imoen who I think could work is Alora, whose travels have given her 3 more constitution, enough for another saving throw bonus and some health per level, perhaps she even picks up the kit of swashbuckler, but the real allure is the rabbit's foot. Luck isn't a bad buff, or it would be great if it lasted a while. With permaluck, especially EE's better version, Alora is a nice choice for handling magic, though she might demand a strength belt.
Of course she'll romance short folks and humans, or possibly everyone with an almost free love ideology. She's even garnering Edwin's creepy halfling fetish. There are few characters she'll fight with, most likely Shar-teel, but even Korgan would have trouble despising her infectious personality. Mazzy will be one of her least favorite people as she reminds her of her parents with her rigid disciplinary attitude, but violence will never occur.
Amn makes some sense to hide in, especially a large city like Athkatla. Very seedy parts, and fairly strong presence of lawless organizations (shadow thieves, various smugglers, the slavers you meet, etc) make it much better than other cities to hide in, and its probable that there are refugees from the existing war in Amn.
Good and Neutral though might be harder to make credible.
Forcing Xzar on the player cheapens values immensely, which is why, as much as I enjoy Xzar, I don't see much character development for him as there is for Montaron.
That said, a few repeat roles are okay, as long as there's a draw, otherwise Nalia will gain some bench warming buddies.
For instance, Kagain is a dwarves fighter with an axe, much like Korgan, even though Korgan has a ridiculously better stat spread, making him better... Or is he?
Kagain has gained 2 strength (and /63 exceptional) in transition and the Dwarven Defender Kit more importantly. Mixed with the saving throws 20 con can give, Kagain would give the Bloodaxe competition, especially with his ability to more readily fight from outside a web with a crossbow. He also has a point in flails, if I need to remind you how awesome one of those weapons are.
Despite being a greedy, selfish, and almost loathsome guy with a shrill voice akin to an old man, Kagain is romance viable for any woman that doesn't have elf genes.
Kagain is in Trademeet, his real issue being not the druids, but the genies who are ruining his vanguard business by denying him merchants to guard.
As far as NPCs go, he still hates Yeslick, but he will almost certainly clash violently with Nalia and her charitable givingness. In fact, there are checks for a few places where Nalia gives money or comments on such actions to help trigger these potential dialogues.
Other than Trademeet, Kagain has little in the way of quest until you reach 10k gold. After which, he'll comment on how profitable you are. Not only that, this wealth can buy his acceptance of any altruism you may commit. If you can get above 30k, you can be as heroic as you wish, but if you fall below, he'll warn you that you'd better get back above that in about two weeks.
If I were to give a full list of returners, it'd look like this:
Montaron
Kagain
Alora
Sharteel
Kivan
Xan
Tiax
Garrick
Yeslick
And maybe Coran, Faldorn, and Branwen (if there were a Tempus kit.)
Many would be different than mod based versions. Kivan most notably, because after a while you gotta get over your dead spouse.
In particular I'd have liked to see more Evil-aligned characters return, since vanilla is sorely lacking in evil party members. Montaron and Xzar (though I can imagine some sort of conflict between them forcing the player to choose sides, ending in the death of the other) seem like obvious choices since they are already involved in a good-sized side quest, and Faldorn/Safana could join in their appearances as well with a little bit of a rewrite. Tiax, if he remained In spellhold, would be a late joiner compared to the rest of the party members, so he'd probably need a bit of a stat boost to be more desirable. And probably a class-retcon into an arcane caster.
Shar-Teel would make perfect sense in any sort of arena-like place in BG II. Her showing up in the Copper Coronet as a pit fighter just seems natural.
Some more Romances would be interesting. I think Kagain/Montaron/Alora would be my first choices if any returning characters were to be romanceable-Gnomes, Halflings, and Dwarves are in 'short' supply of romantic partners in vanilla.
for some others, Faldorn would make a nice contrast to Jaheria's 'good' druid. Shar-Teel would also be an 'interesting' Romance (though I imagine any sort of Shar-Teel Romance would be female-only)
Kivan is another character who would make an excellent addition to BG2. He caused quite a bit of confusion for my female asexual charname.
I've mentioned many, many times that I do not like the Kivan mod, and sadly, there was another Kivan mod in the works which honestly looked better before it fell through.
The rekitting is where Domi and I stop agreeing. Let me break down Kivan and what went wrong. First off, no character should force themselves upon you the way he does and make you either take them then or lose them forever. Next, the elf words are distracting and highly distracts from his cold personality, and his knowing about Irenicus being an elf so early is grade A bull! Sure, Shevrash is a good fit, but does every line of dialogue need to remind me that he's an elf?
Let's get to the thing that irks me most... His wife. She's been dead for over five months I'll wager, certainly longer than Khalid and Dyna... but she can be brought back through means that just boggle my mind. For the sake of character development, she should stay dead. If Mazzy and Jaheira can move on in less time and not cry about their widow status, then Kivan can too.
So let's make him feel less moddy. Kivan is involved in the Windspear Hills, where he is hunting monster races just outside Firkragg's lair with a welcome new racial enemy in dragons to boot. If rejected the first time, he says he'll go on ahead... And you'll never guess where.
Taken or rejected, Kivan will be at Tazok waiting to do a small dialogue trigger before trying to kill him with your help. Upon killing the half ogre, he'll go back outside if you turn him down again, being glad you helped him exact revenge. He will be how the player knows that Firkragg is a dragon, if not taken, about ten seconds before you'd see him for yourself.
Kivan still hates the Underdark and will show animosity towards Viconia, and once again, he might try and put an arrow between her eyes like in the first game. He can best bond with those who lost their loves, and oddly, may even get into a deathmatch with Keldorn, but only if you do hid family quest and he does it wrong.
Kivan will romance tall girls only. He is at a point where he understands that his wife is dead and not coming back. His demeanor is cold, but once Tazok is dead, it's a bit less cold, but still frigid. Most NPCs don't really bother him much. In fact, as a loner, he finds kinship among other loners like Montaron and Valygar, even if both would rather be, well, alone.
In battle, he's an Archer specced in long bows. Keep him from the front lines with his terrible HP rolls and he'll puncture all your enemies.
Anyway, I've alienated enough community from myself for now, so I'll end this here.
if I were to pick id say that Alora and Shar-Teel would be the two best choices to carry over as they have a lot of potential as characters but also add relevant skill sets to the npcs.
honourable mentions:
Xan, hes cool but there's already a ton of casters
Kagain, excellent character but would be too similar to Korgan
Eldoth, not a fan but he would fit into the cast very well imo
Branwen, love her character but there's already 2 female clerics so she wouldn't be the best choice in terms of diversity
Compared to Kivan's mod, Xan is well made, but the problem is with how overloaded it is. I honestly remember long before Kulyok made a Xan mod, there was another Xan mod by someone I cannot remember. It was old, but I liked the characterization he got, or at least my rose glasses are telling me as such. He had an extensive banter series with Aerie about his moon blade and how he was forlorn. This was many, many years ago, however... Who the hell made that?! I must know!
In any case, a romancable enchanter is more than okay, but I'm not sure every race would be his type. I think he'd be picky if you aren't human, elf or some combination. Bonding however just seems weird and too elf specific, especially since Charname is only 20 and very much NOT elf raised.
Still, Xan will have a quest revolving around both his depression and his sword... see, Xan didn't actually earn his sword correctly. It was meant for his cousin, Evarian, who became spider chow long, long ago. Xan wasn't exactly terrible, or deceitful to get it: he showed great promise for arch-wizardry with a very charming personality and amiability... until he discovered and dabbled in wild magic. Young and reckless, he had, at one point, turned himself to stone. This is where his depression began.
Scared beyond belief, he tried to cast away his surge nature using the help of his Moonblade. This appeased the blade and made their bond grow, but his control is waning and the weave cannot be withheld much longer. Xan must make a choice between forever resisting casting away the chaos and therefore getting an even better moon blade, or finally embracing Wild Magic and accepting it and the ability to cast wish/sequencer/sunfire/etc. To prevent evocative cheating, Xan will stay an enchanter with the chance to use wild surges until the quest ends, where he will either lose the surge capability or change kits. This is permanent, but with the moon blade growing much stronger, both choices have benefits.
He will not blame charname.
You could also get his brother's broad sword, and upgrade it at Cromwell... and Cespinar.
His stat gains in transition to BG2 are added an extra point of int and dex.
Xan can get on a lot of nerves with his mopeyness, and he doesn't like reckless characters like Edwin, or egotists. He'll have something nasty to say about Ajantis when you find his corpse. This will not sit well with the knights in your party. With Anomen, it will get violent if not defused.
Edwin's quest would involve an encounter with Skie, where he either continues his false lie or fesses up to her, depending upon your choices.
I think he has potential.
Also Shar-Teel, but that'd be expected.
I do think he'd have some tenuous friends, mostly Korgan... because he's Korgan.
The guy would need serious stat boosts. I don't know if Bards follow the max casting level of int that mages do, but the guy needs help.
Between his 15 Con/16 Str and Garrick's 16 Dex, it's a tough call. Both need help badly or Haer-Dalis will always be ahead in every way.
Well stated with acceptable and easily remedied 15 strength, and having enough wisdom to be a contender despite his late access, and most importantly... his 17 con gives +4 Saves... oh yea and he gets a free innate instant cast of dispel magic.
Even still, his stats get a slight boost with +2 Str and +1 Wis
Yeslick is THE, if not one of the absolute strongest and most useful NPCs in BG1, and I'd be lying if I'd say he'd be bad in BG2. Single and dual classers, and kits will start catching up, but a free Dispel Magic is never useless.
Transitioning, Yeslick is downtrodden, distraught about why an old guy like him was to be the last of his clan while young promise had to die out. He is beyond romance years and travels with you because he has no clue what else he'll do with his life besides ending it.
You can find him at Cromwell's, doing some forge work and coming up with a few recipes of his own. In fact, you don't actually have to have him in the party to make these things, but he'll certainly be able to help out.
Yeslick still will come to blows with Kagain and doesn't really get along with elves except for Aerie who he finds to be very respectable. He sees Dorn as a threat and will probably kill him sooner than later, and he finds Korgan a bit too bloodthirsty. He otherwise has no complaints with anyone.
Yeslick has a minor quest in ToB revolving around the Rune of Clangeddin whereupon he will come up with a new recipe and offer it to Cespinar. He'll also make another rune if you've the proper gems for it.
Despite BG2 providing abundant healers, Yeslick could easily distinguish himself from the bunch without much problem with his added saves, free Dispel, and awesome Dwarven personality that subverts all the greedy stereotypes.
Yeslick's proficiencies are that of ++ in Hammers, Slings and Maces, and taken late enough, he'll be working his points into Sword & Shield Style, so grab him early if you need a FoA user.
He's also right in the game at the Radiant Heart. Just turn his love bonanza into a small quest which he'll, of course, fail.
He'd get along with most characters and get into no real fights, but Nalia will remind him of Skie. He'd probably even make a joke about her voice sounding very similar.
He'd probably be romancable by women, with him being standard choice of elf, human, and the half races (sans orc.)
There's not much to him. His skills as a Jester are useful as enemies not in control are very useless enemies especially if you're breaching spell protections to cause said confusion. Still, it's a very one trick a maneuver.
He might have an odd friendship with Haer'dalis in the way that they're in rivalry over who's the better performer, with Haer giving no actual concern, much like he does with everything else.
I doubt she'd be a romance option, and if she were she'd go for humans, half-orcs, gnomes and dwarves, preferring durability over poise.
The story is that Faldorn is still an insane Avenger who has taken over the druid grove, but not to a fatalistic bond. In fact, in a fight to the death, she'll break down and beg for her life. You can give her the option to not die horribly and she won't. In turn, you'll have the option of recruiting her or bringing her to Logan directly where you can either have him lock her up or you'll take her under your command to help her gain redemption. Depending on how this is handled, you can suffer reputation loss for harboring a murderer so willingly. This will be a 1 time loss and nothing like drow harboring stigma.
She will probably be a hand full, getting angry at the drop of a hat. She'll bicker with Yeslick, Anomen (especially during romance,) and your two druid if you have them. With Jaheira, it'll possibly get violent, for Faldorn WILL mock Khalid and call him weak. Do you hate Aerie for her unintended outburst brought about by goading in a moment of duress? Well, Faldorn will be the one goading and causing duress.
She actually likes Minsc despite his heroic nature, because he's a wild man akin to the barbarians of home and he loves nature. She'll also befriend Kivan.
Statistically, +1 to dex, int and wis are pretty nice, especially with those added wizard spells that Avengers use so well and Int means less brain drain. She uses Darts, which are fun, especially when they're crimson.
Most see her as a Berserker, but she always seemed a little more methodical than crush, maim, destroy. She had a specific target: men; especially weak ones. ST hates wizards by extension, which is how she's been honing her skills before the switch.
Somewhere at about lvl 7, Shar Teel decided it was a good idea to dual class to a thief to further her love of bloodshed. A dual wielder at heart, she has points mostly in long swords, daggers and dual wielding, but her time as a thief has given her short bows, clubs and short swords if you want to go that route. All she's gained in transit is 1 dex and int, and as a Wizard Slayer, you'll need to baby her until ToB, where you immediately snag UAI if you're smart.
Shar-Teel took to assassination and fled into Amn to escape any trouble that may've come about by the death of her father. You may run into some Flaming Fists along the way, but Shar Teel keeps herself busy in the Coronet, fighting in the arena.
She is romancable by men and women alike, and the romances are both drastically different. In both cases, the race options are the strong races of human, half-orc and dwarf, with halfling and gnome somehow available as well.
She sees most men with discontent, especially Cernd. When she learns about his parental abandonment, she WILL get angry and will probably kill him, knowing what it's like. She'll respect Viconia and drow culture's views on men in general. She'll even be more comfortable working for Bohdi than the thieves because of it. Similar stuff happens to Keldorn, but his less neutral nature could hasten the violence.
She sees Jaheira as weak for fawning over the 'stuttering wimp' and Aerie she feels sorry for, and kinda shows her off as some sort of example of male cruelty. While Aerie doesn't hate this attention, she doesn't like being treated as a weakling. The romance will make things very rough... Anomen's romance will get violent if you don't intervene correctly.
Kivan is a bad man for letting his wife die, Alora needs to toughen up and Yeslick is too nice. The only males she might respect are Montaron, Dorn and Jan after his quest. Korgan's respect for her might is not shared.
The male romance is a SLOW process where the belittling will make Viconia's seem like friendly ribbing. On the other hand, the female romance isn't flowery by any extent, but needs about 6 less lovetalks to complete in SoA.