Sorry, but why am I doing this again?

Crow

This may contain slight TOB Spoilers, ye have been warned:

Basically I arrived in Saradush after the Portal in the Pocket Plane took me there, and there Mellisan told me to kill Gronmir and then kill a lot of other people/things, and I'm thinking like, why am I doing this? I'm Neutral Evil so I'm surely not helping Saradush

Drugar

It's Throne of Bhaal.
You're doing it because Plot demands it.
Don't question the logic.

Unfortunate, but oh well, it's what we're dealing with.

O_Bruce

I'm not sure about that. Why not trying to aiming for Godhood by killing other Bhaalspawns? And Gromnir is one of them, just to remind everyone.

CaloNord

ToB is a little more limited in scope then the previous titles! Still good, but don't expect to be doing a massive amount of free wandering and side quests.

elminster

Gromnir is a bhaalspawn. Killing him brings you one step closer to claiming your heritage.

FinneousPJ

The problem is the game doesn't allow you to role play that, IIRC.

Drugar

I think the main narrative problem I have with ToB as opposed to BG1 and BG2 is that suddenly you have a questgiver for the main quest. The fact that it's the ludicrously obvious Mellissan only serves to annoy me more with this problem.

In BG1, you are motivated to take down Sarevok because he keeps sending assassins after you, he's taken a personal intrest in detroying you. It's self preservation to complete the main quest.
In BG2, you are motivated to take down Irenicus because he's kidnapped Imoen and then taken your soul, (presumably) subjecting you to a slow and painful death. Again, it's self preservation to complete the main quest.
In Throne of Bhaal, this argument can also be made. The Five will try to kill you unless you kill them. But the narrative doesn't take that route. Mellissan shows up and tells you to kill them. You can't tell her no or bugger off, you're railroaded to smile and nod. You can play BG1 as someone who's out for revenge or someone who's trying to save the Sword Coast from war. You can play BG2 as a power hungry mage hunter or reluctant hero with a curse forced upon him. You can only play Throne of Bhaal as Mellissan's pawn, willing or unwilling.

The best thing for Throne of Bhaal to happen is to remove Mellissan entirely, have Charname make his own decisions (which can still be railroaded into killing all the five, as long as the motivations can change) and have Bhaal as the final boss.

O_Bruce

Yep, I can totally see that being done, with contract limitations and everything.

Crow

Sorry, I was away for a week, but anyway:
Indeed, by killing Gronmir I bring CHARNAME closer to Godhood, but CHARNAME does not know that yet, the only reason I killed Gronmir was because Mellisan told me to, not even to stop the siege. Even tho I know Mellisan's true intentions they are so painfully obvious that simply talking to her gives me a headache: "CROW, GRONMIR, DROP YOUR WEAPONS!.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, I see I am too late *fake sob*"...

terzaerian

Because Melissan is a total cutie.

Crow

A Shame that one could not go down that path.

Demonoid_Limewire

terzaerian said:

Because Melissan is a total cutie.

And as all cuties go along, she is full of lies, deception, the "i am cleverer than a faqing god" syndrome, and a pathetic pitiful blood pump in the left side of her chest, instead of a heart. Also, very older than she actually looks to be, scheming, double-crossing, backstabbing, and irreversibly single, well pinned, dust collecting on her shelf, until she dies, and not from natural causes mind that... (While baldy, brutish Sarevok played with Tamoko and Cythandria, and old pal ugly gramps Irenicus banged a queen, created a clone of hers, and implanted an entire trio of wood nymphs in his back yard)

What good actually comes out from being a cutie, come again...? :P

dstoltzfus

Well, since you can't really leave Saradush (besides the pocket plane)...it might solve that issue. I'm almost done with a ToB evil play and I just saw it as...cool I get to kill someone and learn more about my heritage. The Dorn bit makes it better.

Really, with neutral evil, you do what benefits you...getting a way out of Saradush helps with that. Getting more power through participating with the prophecies helps you...and you get to kill things.

Doing nothing means stuck in Saradush with an army of fire giants eventually breaking in and looking to kill you. I admit, the annoying carrot of Melissan "knowing something important"...is weak motivation. Melissan in general is annoying and weak for an evil play through...until the final reveal.

Crow

But if the Pocket Plane takes you where you need to go, then if the Fire Giants were a threat to you, wouldn't the Pocket Plane send you elsewhere?

Schneidend

Actually, Melissan doesn't tell you to kill Gromnir, she tells you to talk to him, and pretends to get upset when you kill him. Also, you can't leave the city, because of the magical barrier and the army outside, so you're trying to sort that out.

Crow

Well, she tells you to talk to him, but she also says that the chances of a peacfull confrontation are low, that really forebroods what is gonna happen, especially since Mellisan is such a bad actor and liar... She basically tells you (in a way) she is the bad character in her first dialogue to the party xD

Pocket Planes.

Southpaw

Well, you can at least make choo-choo noises, while the game forcibly drags you along the plot even though your character would not do it.

Crow

Even the Viconia romance seems forced, she just lunges at you if you tell her like the cheesiest sentence EU. (Or FA for Faerun.)

Schneidend

I don't really understand. Why would you not do it? There's just as much motivation from the Five sending assassins after you as there is when Sarevok sent assassins after you.

kiwidoc

Loot! Loads of luverly loot. If you are evil, and someone gives you the chance of killing the local rich guy and his cronies without having half the populace trying to tar and feather you - why not take it. Evil guys can be as scheming, manipulative and sneaky as any one else; and they most definitely don't mind doing someone else a favour so long as they get enough out of it for themselves.

Crow

Sarevok is a different matter, it is revenge, the Five only sent their weakest member after me, after that I just get shackled by Mellisan and become her personal enforcer.

Crow

Fair point @Kiwidoc but to be fair my bags are overflowing with loot I just keep with me because I believe Ribald at Adventurer's Mart always gives me a bad deal.

Dazzu

What makes this an off-topic topic? Am I missing something?

elminster

Dazzu said:

What makes this an off-topic topic? Am I missing something?

No clue

Schneidend

Crow said:

Sarevok is a different matter, it is revenge, the Five only sent their weakest member after me, after that I just get shackled by Mellisan and become her personal enforcer.

And Sarevok is sending random bounty hunters after you, and nobody from his inner circle. The Five literally sent one of themselves after you. That'd be like if Sarevok sent Tazok or Semaj to kill you.

Crow

Fair point, but Baldur's gate 1 and Shadows of Amn makes you hate the Villain, makes it obvious that you need to kill him, makes you even want to chase and kill him. While in TOB one of the Five does make an attempt on your life, the other four are distant, for now, and the only reason that you are going to confront them head on is because Mellisan told you to, that is, at least how I percieve it.

Schneidend

Or, you know, you're trying to actually end this Bhaalspawn nonsense that has dominated your entire adult life, one way or another, once and for all. Viekang proves that you can't simply run away and not care, because destiny is literally a force at work in CHARNAME's life.

Crow

Aha! But what if CHARNAME does not believe in destiny?

simples

okay my problems with this whole thing: melissan tells you to do stuff even though it is painfully obvious she's trying to make you kick off.
if the five would send assassins after you, they'd be no match at all.
i feel like you could probably go to the moonshae isles form the pocket plane if you really wanted to.
if you were evil, i don't think you'd even care that much, you'd just go somewhere and plunder a random town with your awesome powers.

Schneidend

If your CHARNAME has made it to ToB and still doesn't believe destiny exists as a force when the entire franchise has illustrated to the contrary, your CHARNAME is not very bright. The fact that you have a destiny literally keeps you from dropping dead in BG2 when, by all rights, you should have died soon after losing your soul.

Crow

Really? Well my CHARNAME views People who believe in Destiny as weak and pathetic fools believing an unknown force will carry them all the way through their lives. My CHARNAME believes in Power, skill, and the metaphysical belief of Luck, he got where he is right now through skill and determination alone, not through the meaning of a word Old Witches who live in caves rant and rave over and over again till it becomes the word most used in almost all Fantasy Games.