Sure, destiny doesn't mean much to the average person in Forgotten Realms, but there's literally a prophecy influencing the PC's life. You'd have to be a complete buffoon to think there's no such thing as destiny after going through what CHARNAME goes through. The damn all-knowing statues even TELL YOU, AT THE START OF TOB, that the "wheels of destiny ever turn." You went there to find out more about the prophecy that, by the end of BG2, you KNOW EXISTS and makes you special, different from even other Bhaalspawn. Why do you think you have dreams that other Bhaalspawn don't? Were you not paying attention during anything going on after Irenicus stole CHARNAME's soul?
Heheh, you sure do seem mad that I do not agree with you nor do I believe in destiny, to shortly put it, u mad bro? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Seriously, call me a buffoon all you want, I believe anyone who believes in Destiny is just a pussy that is too weak to take control of their own lives, but to each their own I guess.
I do not have to believe what the statues say. I do not have to believe the ravings of an old monk or whatever Alaundo was. I do not have to believe in Destiny. I do not have to believe in the prophecy, in fact, it dosen't even state that *I* am the "Chosen Bhaalspawn."
Why? Because it is a Roleplaying Game, and I can do, and believe in, what I want.
Seriously, my CHARNAME and even I can not believe in Destiny, or maybe find a substitute for Destiny like Coincidence, Luck, or God(s).
Why?
Because I can. Because I want to. Because I'd like to.
You do not know whether other Bhaalspawn get dreams or not, that's like saying destiny controls me because I had a dream of me getting hit by a car while my neighbour didn't. Ooooh, spooooky!
I paid attention to the game, thank you very much, perhaps I percieved it differently that yourself? Perhaps that is the reason this game was so critically acclaimed, because it was not a railroaded experience?
What about Imoen? She survived without her soul, albeit shorter than yourself by about, 2-3 days *The rough in-game time it took me to get my soul back from killing Bodhi.* But you also don't know how long Imoen did not have her soul with her, when you meet her in Spellhold it is already gone, she could have her soul taken from her days, weeks, months before CHARNAME. Is she the Chosen Bhaalspawn of Prophecy? Is CHARNAME's amazing feat of Surviving without a soul for roughly the same time as another Bhaalspawn or even shorter so amazing now that it is only accomplishable with the Power of Destiny?
That's why my CHARNAME believes people who cling to the concept of Destiny are weak, they do not fight, struggle, or use their honed skills, instead they let "Destiny" fly them through the obstacle course.
Imoen is the one who tells you she didn't have any dream. Not only did she not have the same dreams as you, but your dream actually affected your character. You lost a stat point, unlocked the Slayer, etc. The end of the game screams at you that your are special, even among Bhaalspawn. That's why your character is at the stones of prophecy, to find out more. Why would you choose to not believe the stones of prophecy? And, you really don't believe in Alaundo's prophecy, after it has clearly begun to come to pass? It's one thing to not cling to the concept of destiny, especially since the prophecy doesn't tell you how the story will end, but it's pretty clear that you need to finish this, otherwise you can never be free to truly act as you please. The Five will dog you forever unless you end this saga. That's why you're in Saradush dealing with Gromnir.
@Crow I think you're mixing up your real life beliefs and what game tells us. Whether gods and other forces exist is not up for debate. They are very real and directly affect peoples' lives. You would be a fool to refuse to "believe".
Destiny doesn't really work for me, either IRL or in a RPG. If my character is destined to become a god, why do I even need to control it on the path to becoming one? Really, I should be able to leave the computer on and my PC would attain godhood on their own? The only real debate is whether they could still do this with the computer entirely off?
Yes gods exist in-game. No they don't IRL. I agree there is no need for debate.
@FinneousPJ@Schneidend are the gods this destiny you speak of? Sure, they're there, and you're right that I do not believe in destiny, neither does my character, I suppose I kinda based him on me, I can do that, right?
I mean this whole pretext of "destiny" is just an excuse of how railroaded TOB seems, I cannot even play a character the way I have played throughout Bg1 and Bg2? I HAVE to believe in Destiny and Prophecies now? I never did anything just because the "Prophecy" said so, I did it out of my own volition, the destiny you speak of is pretty much called Linear storyline in our world.
Why am I in Saradush? Because the Pocket plane took me there. Why did I go to the Stones? Because I was forced to start there. Why do I have to kill Gronmir? Because otherwise there is no way to progress in the storyline.
"That's why you're in Saradush dealing with Gromnir." Because the Five will continue to Dog me? Gronmir is not even related to the Five, except being Bhaalspawn, I do not see him as a threat, that is a very bleak explanation of WHY I'm in Saradush, the real answer is that I'm there because I was FORCED to go there by the Pocket Plane, a means to string the story together, in my opinion.
Maybe Imoen did not have the Irenicus dreams, but she never mentioned the other dreams alltogether, the only dreams she said she did not have were the ones of Irenicus and Imoen being the Conscience of CHARNAME.
I didn't mention destiny. I was just trying to add perspective in that we're talking about a game world where gods, miracles and the supernatural are very real. They're real and not up for debate. Whether that means there is "destiny" or not is very much philosophical and metaphysical.
EDIT: Unless, of course, the source material has something to say on this officially. @atcDave?
"Destiny" is a pitiful excuse for railroading, and the railroading in ToB is ridiculous, even for a video game (which by the limitations of the media necessitates a more walled in experience than a real RPG). That's really all there is to it. You can bend over backwards making up excuses for why the character absolutely have to do things that way and take a trip with that train, but that doesn't make it good, and "because destiny demands it!" is still the laziest plot device ever construed.
There's a reason overly railroading GMs are ridiculed. If ToB was a real life DM, I think I would be very hesitant before I partake in one of his campaigns again. Especially if I have DMs like BG1 and SoA in my gaming group.
Well, I never said destiny excuses railroading, only that it is an alignment-neutral motivation. Your life will continue to be manipulated by the prophecy unless you bring it to its conclusion.
I think 'destiny' might not be too avoidable in some ways. Your PC went to the stones to see if he could get any useful info; in FR, divination is very real, and they're obviously very powerfully magical. Note, they predict the arrival of the first of the Five accurately, so even if you're disinclined, you'd have to do so with a grain of salt, so to speak.
As for your Pocket Plane, you clearly arent strictly controlling it in the sense of Divine Morphism, you are tied to it by your blood, the Taint. Have you considered that you've built up enough Taint that the Taint itself has an interest in you? The Plane wants you to go to Saradush (or perhaps Melissan does, and this is even more likely. She is Bhaal's #1 servant, and the Plane was Bhaal's, iirc), so you are sent there.
One reason I like games like IWD is the fact that your PC isnt the centre of the universe... by ToB, you're a true Power in the Realms, and guess what? People would now be VERY interested in you, and your name is already well known to the Powers by BG2. You cant really avoid notoriety, and you arent strictly in control of your destiny, moreso as you are now so powerful.
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Seriously, call me a buffoon all you want, I believe anyone who believes in Destiny is just a pussy that is too weak to take control of their own lives, but to each their own I guess.
I do not have to believe what the statues say.
I do not have to believe the ravings of an old monk or whatever Alaundo was.
I do not have to believe in Destiny.
I do not have to believe in the prophecy, in fact, it dosen't even state that *I* am the "Chosen Bhaalspawn."
Why? Because it is a Roleplaying Game, and I can do, and believe in, what I want.
Seriously, my CHARNAME and even I can not believe in Destiny, or maybe find a substitute for Destiny like Coincidence, Luck, or God(s).
Why?
Because I can.
Because I want to.
Because I'd like to.
You do not know whether other Bhaalspawn get dreams or not, that's like saying destiny controls me because I had a dream of me getting hit by a car while my neighbour didn't. Ooooh, spooooky!
I paid attention to the game, thank you very much, perhaps I percieved it differently that yourself? Perhaps that is the reason this game was so critically acclaimed, because it was not a railroaded experience?
What about Imoen? She survived without her soul, albeit shorter than yourself by about, 2-3 days *The rough in-game time it took me to get my soul back from killing Bodhi.* But you also don't know how long Imoen did not have her soul with her, when you meet her in Spellhold it is already gone, she could have her soul taken from her days, weeks, months before CHARNAME. Is she the Chosen Bhaalspawn of Prophecy? Is CHARNAME's amazing feat of Surviving without a soul for roughly the same time as another Bhaalspawn or even shorter so amazing now that it is only accomplishable with the Power of Destiny?
That's why my CHARNAME believes people who cling to the concept of Destiny are weak, they do not fight, struggle, or use their honed skills, instead they let "Destiny" fly them through the obstacle course.
Yes gods exist in-game. No they don't IRL. I agree there is no need for debate.
I mean this whole pretext of "destiny" is just an excuse of how railroaded TOB seems, I cannot even play a character the way I have played throughout Bg1 and Bg2? I HAVE to believe in Destiny and Prophecies now? I never did anything just because the "Prophecy" said so, I did it out of my own volition, the destiny you speak of is pretty much called Linear storyline in our world.
Why am I in Saradush?
Because the Pocket plane took me there.
Why did I go to the Stones?
Because I was forced to start there.
Why do I have to kill Gronmir?
Because otherwise there is no way to progress in the storyline.
"That's why you're in Saradush dealing with Gromnir." Because the Five will continue to Dog me? Gronmir is not even related to the Five, except being Bhaalspawn, I do not see him as a threat, that is a very bleak explanation of WHY I'm in Saradush, the real answer is that I'm there because I was FORCED to go there by the Pocket Plane, a means to string the story together, in my opinion.
Maybe Imoen did not have the Irenicus dreams, but she never mentioned the other dreams alltogether, the only dreams she said she did not have were the ones of Irenicus and Imoen being the Conscience of CHARNAME.
EDIT: Unless, of course, the source material has something to say on this officially. @atcDave?
There's a reason overly railroading GMs are ridiculed. If ToB was a real life DM, I think I would be very hesitant before I partake in one of his campaigns again. Especially if I have DMs like BG1 and SoA in my gaming group.
As for your Pocket Plane, you clearly arent strictly controlling it in the sense of Divine Morphism, you are tied to it by your blood, the Taint. Have you considered that you've built up enough Taint that the Taint itself has an interest in you? The Plane wants you to go to Saradush (or perhaps Melissan does, and this is even more likely. She is Bhaal's #1 servant, and the Plane was Bhaal's, iirc), so you are sent there.
One reason I like games like IWD is the fact that your PC isnt the centre of the universe... by ToB, you're a true Power in the Realms, and guess what? People would now be VERY interested in you, and your name is already well known to the Powers by BG2. You cant really avoid notoriety, and you arent strictly in control of your destiny, moreso as you are now so powerful.