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First ever EVIL campaign?

MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
Yes, I am 27 years old and in all my years of installing BG on new computers every half a decade since I was a teenager, I have never done an evil playthrough.

To be honest, I don't even have the slightest idea how being evil is going to effect the game and how I interact with NPC's in the game and decisions I make. Do I just run around taking all the evil dialogue options? Do I grind commoners and nobles for XP?

Among those questions I also am pretty excited about thoughts on who is going to come along for this journey. Do I tell Imoen to get lost outside Candlekeep? I have ALWAYS wanted to see what it was like to bring Xzar and Montaron into my party for the longhaul. Are they worth bringing along? I also have always wanted to see what it was like having Shar-teel being my frontliner with Viconia being my healer. I also have never considered using Eldoth the bard, I wonder if he is any good?

If any of you guys have done the naughty bhaalspawn run before and have any good tips for me to make this playthrough more enjoyable, I would greatly appreciate it. So far you guys have helped me to understand what a solo run is all about, the pros and cons of min/maxing and roleplaying in your playthrough. I figured it was time to stop planning and thinking about what I want to do in the game and finally get a run going.

So what do you guys think? Should I go for it, or should I be proud to say that I have never played an evil character on this game before and keep up my streak of honor and integrity? Thanks in advance for any comments and criticism. Have a great day guys.

jackjackGoturalBlackravenAristillius
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Comments

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    I really liked my last evil campaign, I played a Blackguard. It was very fun, my way to do it RP wise was to think my character actually wanted to fulfill Sarevok's prophecy by taking its place. I used Dorn, Viconia, Edwin, Tiax, and Baeloth in BG1, then Dorn, Viconia, Kagain, Edwin and Jan in BG2.

    I really recommand to do at least one evil playthrough, so many interesting roleplaying possibilities !

    MeanbunnyBlackraven
  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    edited August 2014
    @DreadKhan Thanks a bunch for the run down on the party options. I really appreciate it.

    I have a question though that has been bugging me. I always hear about how awesome Edwin is and now this Baeloth guy comes along supposeably better than Edwin.

    Is it possible for Charname to ever become a more powerful mage at anytime during the series (all the way through ToB) than these two guys? Is there an obtainable item that gives extra spells per day similiar to their special items that is useable by Charname?

    I just find it funny that there are party members in the game that Charname could not hope to become more powerful than. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, being that you are the son of a god in the canon. Anyway, I hope there is some way around this. Thanks for the great comments.

    DreadKhan
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Meanbunny said:

    @DreadKhan Thanks a bunch for the run down on the party options. I really appreciate it.

    I have a question though that has been bugging me. I always hear about how awesome Edwin is and now this Baeloth guy come around supposeably better than Edwin.

    Is it possible for Charname to ever become a more powerful mage at anytime during the series (all the way through ToB) than these two guys? Is there an obtainable item that gives extra spells per day similiar to their special items that is useable by Charname?

    I just find it funny that there are party members in the game that Charname could not hope to become more powerful than. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, being that you are the son of a god in the canon. Anyway, I hope there is some way around this. Thanks for the great comments.

    You cannot become a better caster than them, but you can become a better character all around. Edwin and Baeloth don't have 18 Dex or 18 Wisdom for example while the PC can, and you have some more possibilities like dualing from Fighter to Mage if you wish it.

    In the end, Charname can't cast as much spells per day than Edwin that's true, but he is going to be more powerful (with the Amulet of Power for example that Edwin can't equip).

    jackjackDreadKhanBlackraven
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    If you want to surpass Edwin as a caster, I would either go Wild Mage, pure sorcerer, a gnome illunsionist/cleric, or a dualed cleric to mage. Wild Mage and sorcerer are the standouts. Baeloth in BG1 isnt surpassable imho, MAYBE the gnome. MAYBE.

    Edwin is considered awesome because his specialty is the best, he has 18 int, and has good constitution. He only gets 1 extra spell per level, which isnt gamebreaking until 8th lvl spells. He is MUCH easiee to keep alive han Xzar or Xan, and invoker is a terrible specialty by most standards. The Amulet of Power is pretty boss, and Edwin cant use it.

    Remember, your character gets Bhaalpowers, Slayers, and a flipping pocket plane, so you shouldnt complain! ;)

  • AlexisisinneedAlexisisinneed Member Posts: 470
    Right now I'm playing an evil Playthrough as an Neutral evil Assassin with high charisma She uses that high charisma to charm her fellow evil party members to do her bidding. I'm running with Dorn, Kagain, vicky, Edwin, Imoen dueled mage at level two. I figure keeping the party reputation around 10 or 11 to keep everyone happy. While the downside to playing evil in bg1 is that the rewards is less then the good options, but at the same time you can be total jerk and not feel bad about it.

    dstoltzfus
  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    edited August 2014
    So there really isn't a way to match Edwin or Baeloth? Does this Amulet of Power make make you on par with the two of them?

    Also, what makes a Wild Mage possibly better, and what is so special about a gnome illusionist/cleric?

    It just kind of makes me wonder what the point of being a charname mage would be if there are just plenty of better choices in game. I assume the ability to have overall better stats and wear the amulet of power makes you almost on / on par with an Edwin/Baeloth?

    I guess the developers are just human like us. We cannot expect every one of their decisions to make perfect sense. Even this day in age.

  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Well, what is your standard for 'better'? Baeloth no, I dont think you can surpass him, but he's an easter egg.

    Edwin CAN be outperformed by either a very well designed sorcerer, and probably by a Wild Mage, definately by either in BG2. Wild Mages get the Reckless Dwoemer, which can cast 9th level spells. Its suicide at low levels, but amazing at high levels.

    A gnome cleric/illusionist combines enormous versatility of casting both types of spells with a very good specialization, faster casting via robes and amulet, and incredible durability from shorty saves. Heck, you can have 20 int and wis during BG1. You can use shields during BG1 and until you pickup the Staff of the Magi (perfect for illusionists!), and where useful you can sequence etc divine spells, which can be a big benefit at times. Its a crazy-powerful caster, and extremely well rounded. Divine spells can help save key spell slots, like True Sight... try it sometime!

    Edwin requires a potion to cast Wish, so he's not the powergaming ideal at high levels. *shrug* He is amazing as a combat mage, but his utility options arent as ideal due to his school.

    Blackraven
  • ZaramMaldovarZaramMaldovar Member Posts: 2,187
    Question who is Baeloth?
    I don't remember him being an NPC in either BG or BG:EE

  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 630
    edited August 2014

    Question who is Baeloth?
    I don't remember him being an NPC in either BG or BG:EE



    He's an 'easter egg' NPC. Your PC has to be level 5+. You can encounter him Larswood.

  • ThrasymachusThrasymachus Member Posts: 630
    Meanbunny said:

    So there really isn't a way to match Edwin or Baeloth? Does this Amulet of Power make make you on par with the two of them?

    Baeloth is unavailable in BG2EE, so your PC will never have him in that game (and thus never with the amulet of power).

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 9,243
    While it isn't very realistic (for most people) to be running around with a despised reputation the whole game, it is just as (or more fun) to run a evil party. It's MUCH easier in the first game to find a large contingent of deviants to go with you, as the vanilla version of BG2 only has FOUR evil NPCs (though this is fixed a bit with Dorn and Hexxat, and even more so with mods).

    Personally, while also doing a good run in BG2 with my Cavalier, I am also gonna start off with a evil Halfling Assassin, and my plan is to kill Firebeard Elvenhair before I leave and see what happens after that. Imoen is getting dismissed and Xzar and Montaron are going to be my first companions. We'll see where it goes from there.

  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    Wow, I was about to ask "Why illusionist for a Gnome?" Then I realize that Gnomes can ONLY be illusionists. They can't even be vanilla mages. Then I started to look through all the other race/class combos since I mostly only play human and then I realized that 90% of the other races are restriced to like 4 classes. That is so totally unfair.

    Now I know I grew up playing MMORPG's like Everquest where they had the same mechanic, but I thought that the D&D universe would be much more leanient with what you could be, at least the P&P DM's I remember used to allow you to be whatever you wanted to be.

    That really kind of depresses me. A gnome can be a barbarian, but not a ranger, bard, sorcerer or monk. That just does not make sense to me. Oh well, I guess I will get used to it eventually. Man, I guess I really haven't played this game in FOREVER. >.<

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    @Meanbunny‌ Sadly this is how 2E works, but in later editions (3E and plus) any races can become any classes, single or multiclass.

    In 2E you even had some restrictions for the maximum level you could get ! For example a Half-Orc could only reach level 6 (or something like that) as a Cleric, yes that's totally right. When you reach level 6 you were just f**ked and couldn't progress anymore.

    The only race that could progress without limitations was Human.

    You can fix that by downloading the BG3 Tweakpack, there is a component in this mod that allows every character to become what they want, even dual class or multiclass.

    MeanbunnydementedArdul
  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    @Gotural That sounds pretty awesome. Do the members of this forum consider using the BG3 Tweakpack to allow any race/class combo cheating? I want to play the game as legit as possible.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    edited August 2014
    It depends of the person, I think all combos should be available, I even allow my multiclass character to get some kits because in PnP you can create let's say a Kensai/Assassin multiclass.

    What's pretty nice is that you can play and roleplay a character really cool and awesome this way, if you have a good idea behind.

    The only combos that are gamebreaker and I would avoid to be "legit" are Barbarian (or Dwarven Defender) multiclass with Cleric. Because with these two you can reach 105% (115%) physical damage reduction because of the Defender of Eastheven (20% passive + 40% HLA (50% Defensive Stance) + 25% Armor of Faith + 20% DoE) which is course wasn't intended and can break the game.

    But even then, you could get your Armor of Faith dispelled, you can get killed by magic and the immunity only come in late game so even this combo is actually not invincible.

    Playing a Dwarf Skald or an Elf Druid for example is considered totally legit by the forumites (I can't speak for everyone obviously).

    Post edited by Gotural on
    MeanbunnyArdulElrandirAristillius
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    The majority I would say cheating at a single player game is a silly premise. ;) you can only cheat your own enjoyment!

    GoturalElrandirAristillius
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    That's totally true ! Enjoying your game should be your main priority :)

    DreadKhanMeanbunnyElrandir
  • dementeddemented Member Posts: 388
    I've often wondered why such strange race restrictions were implemented. A Halfling Bard or an Elvish Druid make complete sense.

    As to playing an evil character I suggest going with smart evil. A highly charismatic and intelligent villain who manipulates people for their own goals. Their high reputation will mean better discounts and less interference from the law. You can carry out your nefarious deeds, while people believe you to be a trustworthy, honorable individual.

    The BG2 tweakpack has a component that stops evil NPCs from leaving no matter your reputation. It makes a lot more sense to me. NPCs like Edwin or Kagain are likely to appreciate fooling others for a higher reward.

    GoturalMeanbunnyElrandirGawdzilla
  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    demented said:


    The BG2 tweakpack has a component that stops evil NPCs from leaving no matter your reputation. It makes a lot more sense to me. NPCs like Edwin or Kagain are likely to appreciate fooling others for a higher reward.

    There is also a component that makes low reputation actually decrease shop prices, exactly like high reputation. I think it's a cool way to display how intimidating and fearsome your character can be.

    jackjackdementedElrandir
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Note, you're not evil in DnD if you arent committing actual evil acts. 'Smart evil' is pretty much normal, everyday folks in the world today, and imho, its more neutral by game standards. Most people are as evil as they can get away with, short of being blatantly antisocial. These people are pretty much neutral by deed.

  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    @DreadKhan Maybe a lot of people, but definitely not everyone since I am not like that. :b

    Also guys, not to go too far off topic, but I heard a rumor that poisoning casters disables their casting? Is this true, or is it a bug in the gameplay? I read this in an old post about the Swashbuckler class and poison weapons by @Southpaw.

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 946
    edited August 2014
    It doesn't outright disable, but the ticking damage, even if just 1 or 2 per round, has a very good chance to disrupt spells that need time to cast. It's not a silence or Insect Swarm, but it's easier to apply. Try darts to attempt to apply it thrice per round.

    jackjackMeanbunny
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Damage dealt to a caster in vanilla interrupts their spell. Very good combining Assassin or Blackgusrd and the ability to damage multiple foes, ie darts, arrows of detonation, DC to cast Melf's Minute Meteors.

    In BG2, things like Creeping Doom work well to shut down casters.

    Meanbunny
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    edited August 2014
    @terzaerian‌
    That sounds like a pretty cool mod.
    It would seriously enhance the flavor of the Dragon Disciple. Give it a nice nutty cheese flavor. But quite awesome nonetheless.

    Elrandir
  • terzaerianterzaerian Member Posts: 231
    A little "NOW YOU FACE MY TRUE FORM!!!" for your playthrough, when those Xvarts land just one too many crits.

    jackjackBelgarathMTH
  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    edited August 2014
    I tend to associate Smart Evil with doing the most to make sure circumstances go your way as often as possible, and - when considering the art of the double cross - knowing if you stand to gain anything from that kind of manipulation. For example, with the Adalon/Ardulace/Phaere situation in the Underdark, I tend to side with Adalon simply because, of the three, she's the biggest threat (and at that point in the game, I'm not entirely confident I can take her). The game considers it a good act (because the D&D alignment system can't differentiate between evil motives and evil actions) but I don't think that kind of decision necessarily compromises an Evil playthrough.

    That's actually one of the things I hate most about the Valen mod: if she's in the party, she'll take the decision out of your hands by giving Adalon's eggs to the demon. Her justification for that is simply because she's evil, but it's also incredibly dumb.

    To use another example, in NWN: Hordes of the Underdark, there's a point where you can choose to side with the Valsharess and betray the Seer. It's obviously meant to be an evil alternative to the Battle of Lith My'athar, except even Evil characters have absolutely no reason to trust the Valsharess - she's tried to kill you more than once, and you already know she's a very, very treacherous person. Helping the Seer is the "Good" choice, but it's also the Smart Evil choice because you know for sure that the Seer won't stab you in the back when you're done.

    Elrandir
  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    I was doing some reasearch and discovered there is a Ring of Acuity in BG2. Wouldn't that ring help to put you closer on par with an Edwin/Baeloth type caster? I know what really makes Edwin broken is his extra 9th level spells, so I guess the ring would make you more efficient, but apparently not where it counts the most and I think that is where Edwin shines over Baeloth.

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