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First ever EVIL campaign?



  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    @Meanbunny‌ That's true, but you could also give the ring to Edwin.

    And don't forget Baeloth is only present in BG1, in BG2 your only "rival" in term of casting ability is Edwin.

  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    @Gotural Touche. What could make charname better would only make Edwin more overpowered. It would be cool if there were a charname only item you found late in the series that gave you some extra high level spells. Then again, I guess the "Why make a mage charname when you have Edwin?" argument can just be met by, "You can never have enough mages.". >.<

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Edwin is a Red Wizard of Thay. He's always going to be more powerful than some kid out of Candlekeep.

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    Yeah honestly even from a RP point of view it's true, you can't beat Edwin on raw spellcasting mastery.

    You would need to become either a Sorcerer or a Wild Mage to become more powerful than him, magic wise, but you still won't get as much spells as him.

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

  • TwaniTwani Member Posts: 640
    No, no, no! Tanar'ri never uphold their bargins. It's the Baatezu who you want to trust. (For a value of trusting a demon.) You can trust Night Hags, too, and well... Yugoloth's can occasionally be trusted, but they'll just use you and abuse you. Tanar'ri are just going to stab you in the back.

    (Indeed, if you choose any option but give me a powerful Magic Item, the Tanar'ri will betray you to the city. Scary if you have SCS installed.)

    Still, if I'm playing evil, I hand over the eggs anyway. I don't remember the item being all that interesting, but betrayal to demons? Yes please.

    [Deleted User]Blackraven
  • Abi_DalzimAbi_Dalzim Member Posts: 1,410
    Even on most Evil runthroughs I give the eggs back to Adalon just because the 70K quest XP is more valuable than anything the demon offers.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Sergio said:

    Well, to me, giving the egg to the demon is really really evil and a smart choice. The demon seems to be a tanar'ri, so, you know, they usually hold their bargain. You just have to avoid being greedy. Asking him for a gift seems to be a smart choice, at least for me.

    All tanar'ri are Chaotic Evil. For comparison's sake, Ur-Gothoz is a tanar'ri. Not trustworthy in the least.
    Sergio said:

    Especially because an evil character would never leave Adalon alive, but in reality, any dragons alive, because it surely has an hoard that any evil charname would like to get his hands dirty over.

    That just goes back to the different variations of evil personalities. Stupid Evil will pull a Leeroy Jenkins for cash, Smart Evil will first weigh the reward against the risk involved.

  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    edited August 2014
    @Southpaw @Gotural @shawne Okay, maybe there is something I am missing from the lore of BG. Maybe this idea of charname being this all powerful, all mighty, son of a god, wrecking machine that is supposed to be head and shoulders above all the entities he meets on his journey is an incorrect assumption.

    Is charname suppose to be the underdog in this quest or maybe at least not nearly as powerful as I assume him to be?

    I am guessing if Edwin were with Gorion during the ambush outside of Candlekeep the fight would of went much differently than it did?

    I appreciate you guys helping me out to understand this amazing game more completely. I really enjoy the IE games and Baldur's Gate has always been a favorite from my childhood. I know I am sitting at a lowly sub 100 post count, but I intend to become one of the guys and eventually have my opinions and knowledge on the game valued in this community. I think a good way to get headed in that direction is to ask as many questions as possible, even if there will be threads lurking around here a couple years from now that make me look like a total noob. No pain, no gain as they say. Thanks again guys for the comments.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    @Meanbunny - well, your CHARNAME is just a "God-in-the-making". There is no guarantee, he or she will be full-blown Bruce Almighty right after stepping foot outta Candlekeep.
    Even more. You need to groom your character to make him/her the most powerful. And most powerful he/she will be, sooner or later.

    Also, don't forget that no one character is invincible and in certain cases, classes can be stronger or weaker.
    Sort-of like a fantasy rock-paper-scissors.

    A Fighter is a powerful force to reckon, but he can be stopped and befouled by the Cleric. In turn, the Cleric will be disintegrated by the Mage. The poor Mage gets completely obliterated by a Monk with a high Magic Resistance. The Monk falls prey to a backstabbing Thief, who laughs at the end.
    (Just until the Thief gets mauled to death by a Fighter)

  • GoturalGotural Member Posts: 1,229
    @Southpaw‌ I like the comparison with the rock-paper-scissors, except that it is more like :

    Cleric are paper, Thieves are scissors, Fighters are Hulk and smash everything until they met the Mages, a.k.a the gods who can't be harmed and can control time and reality. The end. :D

    @Meanbunny‌ In D&D, a Wizard, as opposed to Sorcerers for example, is someone who must study years and years to be able to cast mere spells. You can be the almighty son of a god, if you don't understand and know the incantations, you won't be able to cast Magic Missile, end of story. It's already very silly that you can reach the same level or more than Elminster at the end of BG2 while this wizard is at least a thousand years old.

    The power of your blood allows you to have some nice stats, you can be a Mage with 18/18/16/18/18/10 for example and be incredibly powerful. You will also earn some littles powers during your journey but nothing too important. But that's it. The true special ability of Charname is that he/she can min/max which will make him the most powerful character of the game if you wish it.

    But even this won't make you able to beat someone with more years of practice than you, like Edwin for example. He may has bad overall stats (10/10/16/18/10/10 total of 74 which is below the minimum of 75 stats for Charname at creation) but they are placed exactly like a Mage needs. And as I said, Mages are learning magic, it's a very difficult art.

    Charname grew in Candlekeep, a big library and his foster father is a level 10 Mage. So he can become a mage, but he will never become as good as the genius who has been trained all his life in the best school of magic by the best mentors of the forgotten realms. In a place where if you are not good enough, you are simply killed by the others. A dangerous location where only the strongest prevail. And the strongest, is Edwin. He is a Red Wizard of Thay.

    Because Mages are more about knowledge than raw power, we can sum up the thing like this :

    Mage <<< Son of god Mage <<< Red Wizard of Thay <<< Son of god Wizard of Thay.

    You could tell me "Yeah but I shoud learn faster than him, Charname is a genius, being the son of Bhaal etc" But Edwin is a genius too, he has that 18 Int. He is as intelligent as a Human can be. And because you can't put more than 18 in a stat at creation (except for racial modification), it looks like for a lore point of view being the son of a god makes you a very very good human being, but not something above the limits of humanity.

    I hope it makes sense, I'm really tired and my english is terribly bad ! Sorry, see you tomorrow guys.

  • Raistlin82Raistlin82 Member Posts: 256
    When I learned that they were makin BGEE, I consciously decided that I would play three runs with teams of single-class characters.
    One evil, one good, and one neutral.
    It's been a blast so far (I'm currently in the "good" run), and let me tell you that changing both the NPCs and the outlook towards the world and the quests, it feels like I'm playing a totally new and different game now!

    I made myself a badass Chaotic Evil female barbarian half-orc.

    Back in BGE, I made sure to get Edwin, Viconia and Dorn (romance) immediately, since I knew they'd come with me in BG2, too, and I always like having at least a few characters with me from the beginning to the end. After that, I think I picked up every single evil character, at some point. Kagain was strong, but he was somewhat too bland. Eldoth didn't survive the infighting. The final party had Shar-Teel and Baeloth.

    In BG2EE, again I got Edwin, Viconia and Dorn as soon as possible. Korgan and Hexxat completed the awesome roster (three fighter types, one mage, one thief, one cleric). FINALLY a full evil party!

    In BG2EEToB, I kept Edwin, Viconia, Dorn and Hexxat, but I had to replace Korgan with [[the secret character]], because of the coolness factor.

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    @Meanbunny: The thing to remember is that, at the start of the game, everyone is Level 1 (or around that). The difference is that the PC is a Level 1 mage who trained in Candlekeep with Gorion; Edwin is a Level 1 mage who trained with the Red Wizards of Thay - a people who are defined largely by their superior magical talents. So before we even get into stats, which @Southpaw explained nicely, there's a difference in backgrounds that, in terms of gameplay, manifests in certain advantages Edwin has that you never will.

    As for the assumption that the PC is supposed to stand head-and-shoulders above his companions - not exactly. You can solo the game, but the point of having party members is that each one has a unique talent. Dorn, for example, is a blackguard and has the maximized strength of a half-orc, a combination the player can never have; Viconia has 50% magic resistance as a racial bonus because she's a drow; Jaheira has the Harper's Call spell which functions as a free Resurrection, and so on.

    And it makes sense for these characters to have certain advantages the player can never have, because from a story perspective, they've all been adventuring longer than you. What the Bhaalspawn essence actually means is that you get a few bonus abilities, but certainly not the sort that makes party members redundant.

  • AnduinAnduin Member Posts: 5,745
    @Southpaw said:

    Can't get more useless than dead.

    *Anduin's lower jaw falls off due to gaping at the undisguised anti-dead establishment*

    Take that back now @Southpaw !

  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    edited August 2014
    So guys, one question left to be speculated on. I don't know if its another thread on its own but I wouldn't think so since discussing Edwin falls into the Evil party discussion.

    If Edwin were with Gorion during the ambush outside Candlekeep instead of yourself, would the battle of ended differently? (of course assuming Edwin is on Gorion's team regardless of alignment)

    I always like to ask "What if?" questions. I always find myself wondering these things during the day. ;b

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    Given the element of surprise and Tamoko's clerical powers: probably not.

  • ElrandirElrandir Member Posts: 1,653
    A level 1 Edwin? No. A level one character couldn't have done much at all. You OR Edwin by end-game BG1? Probably. If you import spam, you often wonder (or at least I do) why your uber powerful main character can't just duel Sarevok while the squishy mage (Gorion) defeats Tamoko and then helps me finish off Sarevok. I know it's a scripted cutscene intended for story purposes, but it's always bothered me.

  • LabyrinthodontLabyrinthodont Member Posts: 20
    edited August 2014
    Good to know I'm in the company of other nostalgic mid-20-somethings.

    I still haven't done an evil run, at least not for very long. It's funny, because I love a lot of the evil NPC's and often try to take at least 1 along with my neutral or good party (usually Viconia, to replace Jaheira.) It's actually not that hard to keep an evil NPC, as long as you're not playing a noble, high-rep paladin or something similar. Also, it's amusing to hear Kivan say "May Viconia's soul rot in hell!" When she dies.

    Still, it would be nice to not have to worry about following rules, or staying in character. Considering your origins, it even makes perfect sense. It does create a bit of a continuity issue with BG2 though, doesn't it? I get very obsessive about continuity, even going so far as to drop canon NPC's off at an inn, and eventually pick them up again to leave them in Baldur's Gate prior to the completion of the game. >.>

    That's not so hard if you excluded just a couple of canon NPC's, but with an all evil party, I guess I would just skip it altogether.

  • SouthpawSouthpaw Member Posts: 2,026
    edited August 2014
    Anduin said:

    @Southpaw said:

    Can't get more useless than dead.

    *Anduin's lower jaw falls off due to gaping at the undisguised anti-dead establishment*

    Take that back now @Southpaw !
    Ehm... (shifts nervously) ... I meant dead, not the (murmurs) temporarily undead.
    The undead are fine. I like them fellas.

  • MeanbunnyMeanbunny Member Posts: 107
    I could swear one time while watcing the "Hand over your ward." cutscene that I saw Tamoko get dropped. I think Gorion could of used a different tactic then pulling out a dagger and meleeing Serevok. Maybe try to kite him back to Candlekeep and have the guards pile him. Then after a failed assasination attempt, if Serevok retreats, you can recruit Gorion into your party the next day when you rendezvous at the Candlekeep inn.

    Then again, I guess the story wouldn't be as good at that point. I think I think too much. xD

  • shawneshawne Member Posts: 3,239
    He doesn't melee Sarevok in the EE.

  • The_Potty_1The_Potty_1 Member Posts: 430
    Tamoko falls to a sleep spell or something, and re-appears later in the game.

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