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What stats would you like Garrick to have?

That Garrick has poor stats is a given. But I find his persona charming with the BG1 NPC mod installed. The resulting situation is awkward: hire Garrick for his entertaining banters and his interaction with e.g. Imoen, while putting up with his uselessness to confront ennemies. So I would like to roll out a mod that give Garrick decent stats. The Level 1 NPC mod had a go at that a long time ago already, so I have that example (see below). But I would be interested in your inputs.

So what stats do you think Garrick should have?

Next I may discuss Quayle, another NPC in dire need for stats boost. Actually Beamdog added Dex +1, the only change they made afaik.

* That mod offers two alternatives actually:
  • Str 14+2 = 16
  • Dex 16
  • Con 9
  • Int 13+3 = 16
  • Wis 14–2 = 12
  • Cha 15
or
  • Str 14+2 = 16
  • Dex 16+1 = 17
  • Con 9
  • Int 13+2 = 15
  • Wis 14–5 = 9
  • Cha 15

JuliusBorisov

Comments

  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    meagloth said:

    I wouldn't mind him being a bit smarter but I think he's fine as is.

    Indeed. With a 45% chance to fail learning any spell, vanilla Garrick is indeed a luxury entertainment of a spell caster, unless one abuses save/reload, which I don't like. Increasing his str or dex as the Level 1 NPC mod does is more questionable indeed.

  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 936
    So, Garrick and Eldoth both have subpar stats. Eldoth favors Str, while Garrick favors Dex. They both possess the same lackluster Int. I wouldn't mind seeing them specialize that just a smidge further.

    I would like to see Garrick at Dex 17 and Int 15 or 16. I can vouch that Garrick is already no slouch in ranged combat if there is no one better in the party to equip the Deadshot longbow (there almost always is someone better, but bear with me). You might give Eldoth Str 17 and Int 14 (I can't vouch for Eldoth in any way, but it would be hilarious to equip him up with a two-handed sword and send him to the slaughter).

    I guess it pains me a bit that both of the bards in the game are difficult to use, that must be why I made a jester (actually, I just like being a jack-of-all-trades with a few tricks up my sleeve).

    JuliusBorisov
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,300
    ljbo said:

    meagloth said:

    I wouldn't mind him being a bit smarter but I think he's fine as is.

    Indeed. With a 45% chance to fail learning any spell, vanilla Garrick is indeed a luxury entertainment of a spell caster, unless one abuses save/reload, which I don't like. Increasing his str or dex as the Level 1 NPC mod does is more questionable indeed.
    Somebody has to use those potions of genius and potions of mind focusing you come across :)

    Plus its not like Garrick needs to know that many spells anyways.

    meaglothatcDaveJuliusBorisov
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,299
    I think that Garrick roleplays his stats adequately.

    JuliusBorisov
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    I think 17 dex would be a nice buff for him.

    Garrick isnt quite useless, he's use impaired. He really would be more versatile with a better dex. Mental abilities are reasonable already, since he should largely be support casting vs serious threats, and he does a good job with wands. 16 and 17 arent a huge difference, but 17 LOOKS better... and Garrick is very light on curb appeal imo. Most people drop asap when they see how crummy his stats really are, or just dont keep raising him; he has survival issues unless you can keep him Shielded. :s

    NPCs like Xan arent the greatest, but have things they really do excel at. Garrick is like bringing around an apprentice wizard that happens to be able to wear chainmail and shoot a crossbow.

    Wih 17 or even 18 dex, Garrick would become downright effective with the Army Scythe. Give him a couple wands and throw on some magic chainmail until you get the Elven chain and he'd be a productive support character. His meager spell options would be worth using by the time you get the ac 6 bracers/Elven chain, so you wouldnt be missing out on anything.

    JuliusBorisov
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    Her stats are already way too high.

    STR 14. This means Garrick is stronger than most men......................
    DEX 16. Plays instruments and has the woman's touch, so this is OK.
    CON 9. Perfect.
    INT 13. Perfect.
    WIS 14. Why is he so wise? Nothing he does or says makes him seem any wiser than Minsc.
    CHR 15. Purdy mouth.

    I'd give him -5 STR and WIS.

    DJKajuruGoturalelementJuliusBorisov
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,299

    I suppose that Roleplayers will post suggestions that would make him more interesting as a singing bard who assists the party and has a cool personality, while Powergamers will post suggestions that would turn him into a mean bard who's faster than lightning and super smart.

  • Eadwyn_G8keeperEadwyn_G8keeper Member Posts: 541
    I would give him stats not that different from what he has now. -2 Strength +1Dex +1Con +2Int -1Wisdom -1Charisma

    What I would really change would be his Pickpocket score. Make it around 75% so that he really becomes a character that makes a significant change in the whole tenor of a playthrough.

    I would also give him a daily Special Ability of Know Alignment. And I would also create the game so that there are dialogue options which only Bards can access.

    JuliusBorisovlolien
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    ...if he could Know Alignment, why would he A) Work with Silke, B) be shocked she was evil?

    I do like the idea of giving him, uh, anything interesting for an ability. At least Eldoth has his arrows, even if he is a pretty shitty archer. It'd have to be offbeat though, something weird like casting Luck once per day. He's lucky to have survived to this point after all.

    GoturalEadwyn_G8keeper
  • TheGraveDiggerTheGraveDigger Member Posts: 336
    Increasing his pickpocket would go against character. This is from his BIO...
    "He apparently discovered that performances were being used as distractions for theivery and declared he would have nothing to do with it. Rebuffed by his comrades, now he wishes simply to travel and play his music for those that will listen."

    Giving him the skald kit might work best.

    Eadwyn_G8keeper
  • jackjackjackjack Member Posts: 3,251
    Dropping the wisdom of a Bard is just silly. Lore depends on it. I don't see a good reason to add to his strength, either. Give him a crossbow and some wands and keep him out of melee combat. I agree his intelligence could use a little bump.

    JLeeJuliusBorisovmeagloth
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 1,933
    I like him the way he is. Its the fun of random scores, you get characters that aren't ideal. I think its more fun that way. When I really want to run a Bard, I create my own.

    DJKajurujackjackJuliusBorisov
  • dreamriderdreamrider Member Posts: 417
    Why increase his PP? It starts pretty high for a Lvl 1, and it is inevitably going to increase significantly every bump. As a Bard, it can't do anything else.

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 21,998
    Garrick will stay Garrick no matter what his stats are.

    image

    DJKajurujackjack
  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    jackjack said:

    Dropping the wisdom of a Bard is just silly. Lore depends on it.

    The game mechanics does not support that assertion. Indeed a wisdom between 10 and 14 does not give any lore bonus (15 is where bonus lore starts). A wisdom of 9 results in -10 lore though whereas the maximum wisdom bonus is 10 points of lore. This is to be contrasted with the +10 points of lore a bard gets at each level. Thus neither of the builds I quoted compromise Garrick's lore significantly.

    From a pure role-playing perspective, Garrick comes across as rather naive. Thus a low wisdom makes sense.

  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    edited August 2014
    @bengoshi‌
    [spoiler=shameless self promotion]imageya, ya, whatever. I just think this is a bit more fitting for a bg forum:)
    [/spoiler]

    JuliusBorisovjackjack
  • ljboljbo Member Posts: 177
    Thanks for all your inputs! I will take them into account to write that mod.

    JuliusBorisov
  • DreadKhanDreadKhan Member Posts: 3,859
    Possible idea, you could play up his harmless side by giving him some healing spells or abilities.

    jackjack
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