I agree whole heartedly every time one of my spell casters get level drained I just reload, to much hassle to get rid of it and rememorize, especially because I like t memorize 3 spells at a time per line and when you get level drained, it off sets it and it looks like a mess, so yeah reload ( and for those of you who play no reloads, damn sticks, possibly times where you are never getting those seconds of your life back )
I will only agree to this if they make Level drain as dangerous as it's supposed to be. Remove all immunity from items/class abilties as per PnP, and nerf NPP to only block a single negative energy attack as per PnP, and change restoration to permanently reduce the targets constitution by 1 per use to simulate the rapid aging side effect as per PnP.
If you don't like those changes, suck it up. You're already well compensated for having to deal with a minor annoyance to which is actually supposed to be one of the few abilities that can put the fear of death into the hearts of ANY adventurer, regardless of level.
I stand by my tremendously unpopular position that it should stay as is. What is the point of a permanent (in the sense you need restoration and not dispel magic or time passing to fix it) level drain effect if it doesn't actually drain your level including some of the spells you've memorized? This is the moment your fighters have trained for! To stand on the front lines becoming increasingly weakened while your clerics prep turn dead/cast sunray.
@elminster This feature request is for showing which spells you had previously set in which slots after you restore yourself, not to prevent the spells from being drained in the first place. You'd still have to cure level drain and then rest to rememorize the spells.
I of course know full well what it's for, and still doesn't change my opinion. Having to re-pick your spells is currently the only thing about level drain that makes people dread fighting vampires and the like. Level drain as implemented is a minor annoyance at best. Thus while not quite up to my standards (I already removed all passive negative plane protection from all player items/classes in my game...can't figure out how to change NPP the spell though, that degree of modding is beyond me), I do find it an agreeable compromise to leave the the forced re-memorization in as currently implemented.
@elminster This feature request is for showing which spells you had previously set in which slots after you restore yourself, not to prevent the spells from being drained in the first place. You'd still have to cure level drain and then rest to rememorize the spells.
I fully understand the request. I just disagree with the idea that an ability that drains your level would be made to be less serious than it currently is. If you are say a level 12 cleric and you get hit with a level drain (I'm assuming its 2 levels a hit at least in the case of vampires if not please feel free to correct) you should become a level 10 cleric (which includes the fact that you wouldn't even have any ability to know about spells from a higher level or at a greater amount than what you could get at a level 10). Its sort of like if I take off an item that grants me extra spell slots, say like the Ring of Holiness, should the game save the spells I had previously chosen in case I re-equip the ring? I don't think so. The game (using my example) should treat you as a level 10 cleric until such time as you have a restoration spell cast on you. Then you should have to rememorise your spells (which includes selection and resting).
On the one hand, level drain should suck. When you get hit by a vampire you should still be hurting days later as your body and mind slowly recover. In this sense, having to re-select your spells makes sense as your mind has to try and make sense of what just happened.
On the other hand, the selection of spells to memorize doesn't represent some kind of pre-memorization. Each time a wizard selects spells, they have to go through their spellbook and decide which ones they'll prepare for the following day. The game remembers your selected spells because that's less time-consuming for the player than having to select the same set of spells every time you rest. So in terms of the specific mechanic, having them preselected has nothing to do with the mechanics of magic, and everything to do with making things more convenient for the player. Level drain is supposed to hurt the character, not the player; just as the screen doesn't go black when your character is blinded, the preselection being lost makes no more sense than the preselection being kept in every other circumstance. (in other words, if you keep one, you should keep both.)
In world-terms, you could think of the preselection as your wizard being resourceful and writing down a list ahead of time of all the spells he prepares everyday. But, again, that wouldn't be affected by level drain.
On the secret third hand, making it work so that the preselection is kept (after the spell slot has been removed and then added back) would take resources that might better be spent elsewhere. So while I think I initially came down in agreement with this idea, I don't know that I'd want energy to be spent here when it could be spent on, say, giving all warrior classes a perm.
How about this as an alternative: If you attempt to rest and you have at least one party member with at least one spell slot not filled, it shows a window saying "Some of your spellcasters have not selected spells to memorize. Are you sure you want to rest?"
That, at least, would remind you to select them, and it would be useful for characters who recently gained a level normally as well. Thoughts on that?
there is a new thread about this problem i guess they will be merged.
i would still like to see preselection remembered if possible. i think wasted spells that were not cast but are spent because of level drain are punishment enough for the player and character. high level mage loses almost all high end spells with one hit from greater vampire!
having to remember spell selection for 2 high level mages, druid and cleric at all times becomes a real hassle. i guess reminder is better than nothing but the annoying process is virtually the same.
On the one hand, level drain should suck. When you get hit by a vampire you should still be hurting days later as your body and mind slowly recover. In this sense, having to re-select your spells makes sense as your mind has to try and make sense of what just happened.
On the other hand, the selection of spells to memorize doesn't represent some kind of pre-memorization. Each time a wizard selects spells, they have to go through their spellbook and decide which ones they'll prepare for the following day. The game remembers your selected spells because that's less time-consuming for the player than having to select the same set of spells every time you rest. So in terms of the specific mechanic, having them preselected has nothing to do with the mechanics of magic, and everything to do with making things more convenient for the player. Level drain is supposed to hurt the character, not the player; just as the screen doesn't go black when your character is blinded, the preselection being lost makes no more sense than the preselection being kept in every other circumstance. (in other words, if you keep one, you should keep both.)
In world-terms, you could think of the preselection as your wizard being resourceful and writing down a list ahead of time of all the spells he prepares everyday. But, again, that wouldn't be affected by level drain.
On the secret third hand, making it work so that the preselection is kept (after the spell slot has been removed and then added back) would take resources that might better be spent elsewhere. So while I think I initially came down in agreement with this idea, I don't know that I'd want energy to be spent here when it could be spent on, say, giving all warrior classes a perm.
How about this as an alternative: If you attempt to rest and you have at least one party member with at least one spell slot not filled, it shows a window saying "Some of your spellcasters have not selected spells to memorize. Are you sure you want to rest?"
That, at least, would remind you to select them, and it would be useful for characters who recently gained a level normally as well. Thoughts on that?
Great idea couldn't agree more with this as a new feature.
I support having spells being retained rather than having to constantly fill them in time and again. It's a simple question of game ergonomics. Doing this doesn't make the game easier, it just removes annoying grind. The player shouldn't be punished for the afflictions of his avatar. Rest prompts miss the point (but are still desirable).
Level drain is already a potent ability, and one that you have to design your strategy around. If some people think that wasting the player's time as a punishment is the only way to make it sufficiently fearsome then I respectfully suggest that they innovate some way of wasting their own time and let the rest of us have fun.
That said, I agree that Level Drain is kind of lax in the amount of debilitation it delivers.
Maybe buff its effects a bit to offset its relative weakness.
Regardless, the player shouldn't be penalized for things that happen to their character(s).
And having to manually load up the spells again is the equivalent of micro-managing your party when they get stuck and take a wrong path due to the AI failing and making them look like a bunch of decapitated chickens.
@Zoimos Actually all I can imagine right now is the amount of special effects that must be happening on the screen all the time when this group fights.
And now I want to play with a party like that... Sigh... I will not restart the game... again...
already well compensated for having to deal with a minor annoyance to which is actually supposed to be one of the few abilities that can put the fear of death into the hearts of ANY adventurer, regardless of level.
Pfah, utter quatsch :P. The vampires don't put the fear of death into me. They put the fear of goddamn tedium into me. Knowing that after I've ripped them into tiny pieces, I'll have to spend half an hour looking at the turd brown spell interface just to reinstate all my preferences. I would have fired the person that made that design decision, but I forgive it only because BG2 was made in a different time, and they would have been rushed off their feet trying to follow up the original. They wouldn't have fully appreciated how irritating this part of the game was.
Comments
If you don't like those changes, suck it up. You're already well compensated for having to deal with a minor annoyance to which is actually supposed to be one of the few abilities that can put the fear of death into the hearts of ANY adventurer, regardless of level.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/15065/level-drain-in-bg2-ee-keep-it-remove-it-or-change-it
On the one hand, level drain should suck. When you get hit by a vampire you should still be hurting days later as your body and mind slowly recover. In this sense, having to re-select your spells makes sense as your mind has to try and make sense of what just happened.
On the other hand, the selection of spells to memorize doesn't represent some kind of pre-memorization. Each time a wizard selects spells, they have to go through their spellbook and decide which ones they'll prepare for the following day. The game remembers your selected spells because that's less time-consuming for the player than having to select the same set of spells every time you rest. So in terms of the specific mechanic, having them preselected has nothing to do with the mechanics of magic, and everything to do with making things more convenient for the player. Level drain is supposed to hurt the character, not the player; just as the screen doesn't go black when your character is blinded, the preselection being lost makes no more sense than the preselection being kept in every other circumstance. (in other words, if you keep one, you should keep both.)
In world-terms, you could think of the preselection as your wizard being resourceful and writing down a list ahead of time of all the spells he prepares everyday. But, again, that wouldn't be affected by level drain.
On the secret third hand, making it work so that the preselection is kept (after the spell slot has been removed and then added back) would take resources that might better be spent elsewhere. So while I think I initially came down in agreement with this idea, I don't know that I'd want energy to be spent here when it could be spent on, say, giving all warrior classes a perm.
How about this as an alternative: If you attempt to rest and you have at least one party member with at least one spell slot not filled, it shows a window saying "Some of your spellcasters have not selected spells to memorize. Are you sure you want to rest?"
That, at least, would remind you to select them, and it would be useful for characters who recently gained a level normally as well. Thoughts on that?
i would still like to see preselection remembered if possible. i think wasted spells that were not cast but are spent because of level drain are punishment enough for the player and character. high level mage loses almost all high end spells with one hit from greater vampire!
having to remember spell selection for 2 high level mages, druid and cleric at all times becomes a real hassle. i guess reminder is better than nothing but the annoying process is virtually the same.
Level drain is already a potent ability, and one that you have to design your strategy around. If some people think that wasting the player's time as a punishment is the only way to make it sufficiently fearsome then I respectfully suggest that they innovate some way of wasting their own time and let the rest of us have fun.
That said, I agree that Level Drain is kind of lax in the amount of debilitation it delivers.
Maybe buff its effects a bit to offset its relative weakness.
Regardless, the player shouldn't be penalized for things that happen to their character(s).
And having to manually load up the spells again is the equivalent of micro-managing your party when they get stuck and take a wrong path due to the AI failing and making them look like a bunch of decapitated chickens.
guess how annoying this is if all of them get level drain
And now I want to play with a party like that... Sigh... I will not restart the game... again...