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New "challenge" - minimum stats

KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
in Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition
Anybody ever try this?

You use the minimum stats for your race/class combination.

You can use a 7 STR (unless your class has a higher minimum), just so you can carry some stuff around.

I tried this a while back. It's a very tough challenge! I always tried to find ways around the "restrictions" by choosing classes with high minimums (Gnome Fighter/Illusionist is supposed to have a minimum DEX of 16, and Elf Rangers have really high minimums, as do half-elf Cleric/Rangers).
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Comments

  • JuliusBorisovJuliusBorisov Member, Administrator, Moderator, Developer Posts: 22,725
    edited September 2014
    It would be great if you share your run where you use minimim stats with us. As far as I know, there're no runs with characters having only minimum stats.

    We had a story of HeroGuy by @meagloth‌ - he had ridiculous stats and to follow that run was fun.

    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/32385/rebooted-the-tale-of-loser-meagloths-24-roll-no-reload-run-complete#latest
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    When I actually own a copy of this game, I'll be sharing. I get my galaxy tablet back next week!

    I'll probably give an elf archer another try. You don't have to worry about carrying quite as much with a 13 STR and being limited to studded leather armor.
  • The_Potty_1The_Potty_1 Member Posts: 436
    edited September 2014
    I tried one of these on the old forums, but the thread degenerated into a discussion of what class and race to choose to force the highest minimum stats, which I thought was completely not in the spirit of the challenge.

    You'll have to forgive me for posting the results anyway, really I'm trying to derail that particular dead end. 

    Race		TOT	STR	DEX	CON	INT	WIS	CHA
    Halfling	36	6	8	10	6		
    Elf		35		7	6	8		8
    Dwarf		31	8		12			2
    Gnome		29	6		8	7	2	
    Half-elf	25		6	6	4		
    Half-orc	18	4		4	1		
    Human		18						

    Class		TOT	STR	DEX	CON	INT	WIS	CHA
    Ranger		60	13	13	14		14	
    Paladin		57	12		9		13	17
    Bard		49		12		13		15
    Druid		39					12	15
    Monk		36		9	9		9	
    Barbarian	24	9					
    Cleric		24					9	
    Fighter		24	9					
    Mage		24				9		
    Thief		24		9
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Go go Elf Ranger then?

    In the spirit of the challenge a Human with a standard class would be best. Probably Specialist Wizard as I don't believe the INT score limits the casting of higher level spells as it does in PnP.
  • karnor00karnor00 Member Posts: 680
    I think the true spirit of the challenge would be to use shadowkeeper for 3's across the board. Carrying capacity problems would just need to be worked around.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    I really can't see the point of this.

    The game can easily be won by a 5-man team - heck, a skilled player can win with a 1-man team!

    Therefore this challenge ought actually to be quite easy - you just select a balanced team of 5 strong NPCs, and let them always run ahead and do all the work, while your feeble 3/3/3/3/3/3 basket-case hangs well back out of harm's way and takes no part in the action. Okay, there are a handful of story-points where your protagonist is required to step forward and speak for himself, but for 99% of the game he can just hide half a map away and do nothing at all!
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    I've played with some profoundly mediocre characters, but I've never gone the hard core minimum route! Be sure to keep us posted how it goes, what particular and unexpected challenges come up, and how you deal with things.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    @decado actually they have changed it so if your INT is low you arent going to be casting high level spells, (so i believe if you have 9 INT, level 4 spells are going to be the highest you will ever cast) i've tried something on the lines of making 6 fresh characters where all of their stats were 10 and i believe i finished irenicus' dungeon, now i think that is a tad harder because you cant rely on anyone to be a power house, or you could just go insane and make 6 characters that all have minimum stats :)
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    sarevok57 said:

    @decado actually they have changed it so if your INT is low you arent going to be casting high level spells, (so i believe if you have 9 INT, level 4 spells are going to be the highest you will ever cast) i've tried something on the lines of making 6 fresh characters where all of their stats were 10 and i believe i finished irenicus' dungeon, now i think that is a tad harder because you cant rely on anyone to be a power house, or you could just go insane and make 6 characters that all have minimum stats :)

    Are you sure about that? This information would certainly all but require all mages going to the sequel to start BG1 with a 17 INT.
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    edited September 2014
    All mages would need 18 INT to cast 9th level spells, also priests would need 18 WIS to cast 7th level spells (IIRC).

    I'm not so sure this has been implemented.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    the priest one hasnt, but the mage one has, i remember having nalia on my team with no level 9 spells until that intelligence hit 18, and i think that silly rule is pretty crippling because jan and aerie both have 16 INT so those guys getting level 9 spells is almost out of reach, i dont want to have to waste an ioun stone and machine of lum the mad to make it so they can cast level 9 spells
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    sarevok57 said:

    the priest one hasnt, but the mage one has, i remember having nalia on my team with no level 9 spells until that intelligence hit 18, and i think that silly rule is pretty crippling because jan and aerie both have 16 INT so those guys getting level 9 spells is almost out of reach, i dont want to have to waste an ioun stone and machine of lum the mad to make it so they can cast level 9 spells

    Are there any mods you're running or something? I just think if this change were implemented, it would be major news (relatively speaking).
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    nope no mods, i just started bgII so all i need is about sometime tomorrow to figure out if nalia can cast level 9 spells or not, or someone can just confirm it?
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    It was pretty major news back when the last update was released. I think its good to be putting things more in line with the core rules, but they still haven't gone all the way with it.
    Ideally, only the very smartest mages should be able to ever cast ninth level spells. The original implementation turned it into an entitlement. Now the player will have to plan out some things, like how to use the Machine, Ioun Stones, even potions. It makes resource management a bigger part of the game. I think this is a good change.
  • meaglothmeagloth Member Posts: 3,806
    Gallowglass said:

    I really can't see the point of this.

    The game can easily be won by a 5-man team - heck, a skilled player can win with a 1-man team!

    Therefore this challenge ought actually to be quite easy - you just select a balanced team of 5 strong NPCs, and let them always run ahead and do all the work, while your feeble 3/3/3/3/3/3 basket-case hangs well back out of harm's way and takes no part in the action. Okay, there are a handful of story-points where your protagonist is required to step forward and speak for himself, but for 99% of the game he can just hide half a map away and do nothing at all!

    @Gallowglass‌ you do it solo. Duh.
  • KloroxKlorox Member Posts: 894
    Wow. That's pretty cool! I'm just glad I know the rule (I'm a looong time AD&D player, and am familiar with what is and is not implemented into BG).

    For a while there, INT kinda became almost a dump stat for multi class Mages. You just didn't /need/ a high INT.

    Now you do.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    meagloth said:

    @Gallowglass‌ you do it solo. Duh.

    Well fine, then it'll indeed be extremely difficult. But the announcement of the challenge didn't say anything about going solo! If it's meant to be solo, then obviously it should make that clear.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    Of course you are correct Gallowglass. I should have been more clear. The Intelligence limit on casting spells is from PNP. Having it only effect scribing of spells is an implementation issue. But on balance I'd still call it a step in the right direction!
  • moody_magemoody_mage Member Posts: 2,054
    Yep - I too was quoting from PnP. It's like Quayle doesn't get a casting failure % chance for his terribad Wisdom score.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    I'm currently trying this challenge in TBP2.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    im glad it at least doesnt affect wisdom, because so many of the clerics in bg2 would be severely crippled from their garbage wisdom, everyone has 16 at best except for viconia and maybe cernd ( but seriously who uses cernd's spells anyway, if anyone even uses him at all) and now there is no mage in bg2 that will be able to cast level 9 spells without some lum the machine or iounstone assistance except for edwin, and if you have aerie, jan and nalia on your team, well only 1 is going to get level 9 spells, quite the downer
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    edited September 2014
    @sarevok57 - no, look again at my post above. All of the BG2ee Mages can cast level 9 spells. It's just that (except for Edwin) they need to gulp a potion before trying to scribe it into their spellbooks, which is a one-off action. Once they've got it into their spellbooks (edit: and provided that they're at least level 18, in order to have at least one cast at level 9 available to them), they can ever afterwards memorise it and cast it, without further assistance from potions/items/MoLtM/whatever.
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    Well I finished TBP2 with 6 minimum stats chars, and it's not that tough. I did use more summons than normal, though.
  • sarevok57sarevok57 Member Posts: 5,975
    @Gallowglass oh okay, completely forgot about drinking potions, for some weird reason i thought that they would also not get their spells per day as well my bad
  • The_Potty_1The_Potty_1 Member Posts: 436
    edited September 2014
    When I tried, I allowed myself the assistance of Jaheira & Minsc in order to escape the initial dungeon, of course dungeon-be-gone would work too. I'm sure better players than I could do this solo, but for us mortals, I would say the solo challenge starts in the Promenade.

    Also, what about bumping the stats slightly, so you don't get a 12-point stat advantage from playing a monk / FMT / FMC? What I mean is, you can allocate 36 stats any way you want, as long as no stat goes over 12. So eg 2x12 & 4x3, or 3x9 & 3x3. If you absolutely have to play a ranger, you can, as long as you use a save editor to drop your stats to a total of 36. Powergamers will still minimise STR, DEX, & CHA, because they know there are items for those, and a sorceror with 12 CON is probably the optimal choice.

    EDIT Aaargh, this is BG1. Sorry, I just assumed BG2. OK the optimal choice is probably a solo MT with 12 DEX, 9 CON, 6 STR. Wow, that would suck. How about 40 total?
  • The_Potty_1The_Potty_1 Member Posts: 436
    OK I'm in :D

    image

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  • The_Potty_1The_Potty_1 Member Posts: 436
    I already had to dump my studded leather in favour of straight leather, because I can carry 50, studded weighs 25, and leather weighs 15. Studded, plus a spare long sword in case of breakage, 8 potions of healing, 2 potions of speed, and a long bow put me over my max.

    So far I plan to no-reload, even though I really can't remember individual fights particularly well. Given I'm used to getting owned by SCS, let's see how I go.
  • atcDaveatcDave Member Posts: 2,154
    Great name! Although the portrait looks a little too menacing, you need a Homer Simpson....
  • The_Potty_1The_Potty_1 Member Posts: 436
    edited September 2014
    My tactics so far involve the well trodden cowards route to Nashkel, with a stopover at the FAI for the mage ring. The FAI mage assassin I talked to, then ran and let the guards finish him.

    I did engage various melee-enemies in backstabs, cat-baiting, and arrows. Notably Joia's ring, the belt ogre, the two ogrillons with the letter, and the hobgoblins with the stealth boots. I also calmed Marl, delivered a book to Firebeard, and listened to every word Noober had to say.

    After some agonising, I decided to engage the Nashkel cleric assassin as well. I even managed to hide in shadows after fleeing out the door, so let the guards get her to near death, and backstabbed FTW, and a level in thief :D

    Not sure what to do next, tempted to try blinding Greywolf, or just using cat-baiting, but he hits really hard, so pretty sure it'll end in tears. Maybe I should go backstab Shoal the Nereid for 5k XP, then go basilisk hunting with the help of Korax?

    At this point I've ditched armor entirely, but have the 'armor' spell memorised, and 'blindness' as the other spell.
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