First SCS BGEE run: which components should I (not) install?

FallenAasimon

Which components you install and which ones you keep out, and why? I'm looking for a mild install, maybe only the AI boost, with no enhanced encounters and precasting, as I still consider myself a BG novice. I'll be playing Core Rules and taking my time to improve my knowledge on the game. And yeah, I know I'll get destroyed, but I'm eager to learn.

Mod readme just in case: http://www.gibberlings3.net/readmes/readme-scs.html

JuliusBorisov

Well, you're absolutely free in this. If you want a mild install, go for it.

But personally I prefer the hardest (the fullest) install. If I want to make my game harder (and why else should I install the SCS mod) I want it to be the most challenging.

comebackhome

All of them The harder the better. On a serious note, SCS/tactics are great. Especially if you like spending hours on one encounter finding the most effective strategy (which I do).

smeagolheart

personally, when I installed SCS, I didn't care for the mages pre-buffing components. It just didn't seem right to me to have mages sitting around all prebuffed for no reason 100% of the time. To me they cast their buffs fast enough to get protected and are already powerful.

At first I installed "all of them" as comebackhome suggests but then I hated my playthrough when getting peppered to death by one stupid bandit archer. There was such a huge difficulty leap from all the stuff before the bandits to any bandit you ran into that the next playthough I removed that component. Then I found myself removing another component (the prebuffing) because each stupid lowly mage would be huge chore to take down and add a half hour stopping point (exaggerated for emphasis) to each and every magic user. I found a nice compromise was to just drop the prebuffing as they were still powerful but not obnoxious. Others would probably tell you it's no big deal but to me it was. Now I don't even bother with it. I'd be interested in some minimal install I suppose but as I say now I don't even bother.

DavidW

Designers' views here are probably less valuable than players', but for what it's worth, if you don't feel thoroughly on top of the BG combat system I'd suggest installing nearly all of the "improved AI" components (probably with a fairly minor level of mage prebuffing) and virtually none of the "improved tactical challenge" components. Roughly speaking the former are "make existing creatures behave as intelligently as they ought to" and the latter are "when the former doesn't make it difficult enough, add more challenges".

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smeagolheart

subtledoctor said:

...Says the man himself! I agree: all you need for the first time through are the 'improved AI' components. They unequivocally make the game better.

The tactical challenges and pre-buffing components are a matter of taste - some people love them (a few gave posted in this thread!) and some people don't. But the basic AI stuff is so good and so seamless that it probably should have been officially incorporated into the game. Go with that.

This I would agree with. Add the basic AI stuff and if you want more add more on top of that. As opposed to the way many people do by adding it all then taking away things you don't like or hating it. On the other hand some folks probably love it all on there at once. To me, it's a huge difference from vanilla that definitely suggest adding the base and then sprinkling more to taste.

The improved bandits thing that makes the bandits have ice arrows or whatever along with super high thacos was a huge immersion breaking thing in BG1 SCS. I'd be wandering around a forest killing the odd gibberling and diseased gibberling and run into one of those archers. No big deal I'll just move closer to engage him and take him out with Minsc. The archer then proceeds to fire ice arrows and smack, smack, smack dead. What the hell right?

I looked back at the combat rolls and the guy was rolling like 5s and above to hit or something lol. This guy was quite a bit stronger than your average gibberling. So imagine how strong and careful you need to be to prepare for something like the bandit camp which comes before even get to Baldur's Gate in the storyline.

Ygramul

Here is my rules of thumb :
[keep in mind, I ONLY play no-reload games; so a challenge that expects you to reload a few times, even when you play perfectly is unacceptable]

- AI and encounter improvements only: e.g. smarter mage AI & smarter basilisks
- but no rule-changes: e.g. no 'improved spiders'
- ignore things like "Improved Ulcaster" -- too hard and chancy
- Tougher End of Chapter battles -- only if you are REALLY on top of the game and played through once like a breeze; ignore if not!

I really recommend a no-reload run with SCS AI -- you will never go back.

Ygramul

DavidW said:

Designers' views here are probably less valuable than players', but for what it's worth, if you don't feel thoroughly on top of the BG combat system I'd suggest installing nearly all of the "improved AI" components (probably with a fairly minor level of mage prebuffing) and virtually none of the "improved tactical challenge" components. Roughly speaking the former are "make existing creatures behave as intelligently as they ought to" and the latter are "when the former doesn't make it difficult enough, add more challenges".

You know @DavidW‌ , I gotta tell you that SCS is so transformative an experience that I basically don't play IWD/IWD2 because they lack SCS-level AI. Thank you!

(P.S. Though some of the specific non-AI challenges may be too much: e.g. I decided to avoid the "Improved Fiends" for my BG2EE no-reload run after I read its change list. OUCH!)

DavidW

smeagolheart said:

The improved bandits thing that makes the bandits have ice arrows or whatever along with super high thacos was a huge immersion breaking thing in BG1 SCS.

SCS doesn't give ice arrows to bandits. If you're getting hit by ice arrows it's either from Black Talon Elites (who had them in the original game) or from another mod. SCS doesn't give either normal bandits, or Black Talon Elites, super-high THAC0s; in fact, it actually removes an artificial bonus to THAC0 from some bandits (though it gives them sensible choices of proficiencies too, so it's more or less a wash). If I recall correctly there were one or two iterations during my beta period for EE a year or so that did mess with THAC0 (actually, they did something more complicated but it probably would look like messing with THAC0); it's possible you ran into one of those.

FallenAasimon

Thank you for the recommendations guys, I'm gonna stick with smarter AI and skip improved encounters for the moment.

Edit: A few questions, do you guys use spell and item tweaks, like "More consistent breach spell" and "Replace many magic weapons with fine ones"? What's your thoughts on "Potions for NPCs"?

smeagolheart

DavidW said:

smeagolheart said:

The improved bandits thing that makes the bandits have ice arrows or whatever along with super high thacos was a huge immersion breaking thing in BG1 SCS.

SCS doesn't give ice arrows to bandits. If you're getting hit by ice arrows it's either from Black Talon Elites (who had them in the original game) or from another mod. SCS doesn't give either normal bandits, or Black Talon Elites, super-high THAC0s; in fact, it actually removes an artificial bonus to THAC0 from some bandits (though it gives them sensible choices of proficiencies too, so it's more or less a wash). If I recall correctly there were one or two iterations during my beta period for EE a year or so that did mess with THAC0 (actually, they did something more complicated but it probably would look like messing with THAC0); it's possible you ran into one of those.

It was indeed the Black Talon Elites not regular bandits, just couldn't think of the name off the top of my head before.

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dashteacup

I recommend almost all of the spell tweaks. They improve spell balance a fair bit. For the item tweaks, I would avoid the "fine weapons/arrows instead of magical ones" components in your first play through. Definitely install NPCs use potions.