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Cleric kits

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Comments

  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    Yes, I know. I just wanted to point out that edition doesn't necessarily equal certain DR frames. It's a little different with 4E as that changed a lot. Edition and DR timeframe overlap a lot there. With the other editions, that's not the case.

    I don't believe I'm able to express myself properly here :)

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 924
    It just gets a bit canonically strange:

    Have you heard the tales of the Frozen Dale where a Halfling Paladin/Wizard and her allies stopped the Legion of the Chimera about 100 years ago? Well, Mazzy Fentan, have you?!

    elminsterThe_New_Romance
  • LordRumfishLordRumfish Member Posts: 936
    Why don't we get specific? IWD2 is set around 30 years after the events of IWD. This is still before BG1 and the events leading up to the Spellplague (bleh) haven't occurred. Helm is alive, and the world you recognize is hunky-dory. If we're updating IWD2 rules, we're going off of the old timeline when the game is actually set.

    New games with newer rules and newer timelines may prove more problematic, and may not, in fact, resemble any world you would recognize. IWD2 shouldn't suffer from this problem, however, if the possibility exists of updating it.

  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    edited September 2014
    About Helm:
    In the novel The Sentinel by Troy Denning, Helm returns during the events of The Sundering. So, if an IWD3 were set in the current "modern day" of the latest Realms then Helm would be around. Of course, that's about a 200 hundred year time jump from the original (something like that).


    Wizards of the Coast has made a point of being ruleset edition neutral (the new books should work with any ruleset you prefer 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. etc.), and some are hoping this will also mean timeline neutral so new products could be set in something other than the Post Spellplague/Post Sundering time. Would be kind of fun to see an IWD3 set in the past using a 2nd or 3.5 edition ruleset.

    elminsterGoodSteveStarflower2525booinyoureyes
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 924
    Yet there are Halfling Paladins saving the Dale long before Mazzy was even born. Am I the only one seeing a huge disconnect?

    booinyoureyesThe_New_Romance
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    Disconnects like that are the reason there have been Realms Shaking Events, because every time the designers make a change they fear people won't understand if there isn't a story based reason for the change. Hence, assassins all dying when Bhaal sucked in their essences as an explanation for removing assassins from the game, or the Spellplague blowing up half the world and frying wizards to explain the new map and radical changes to spellcasting in 4th Edition. And, of course, The Sundering to explain why they retconned whole massive chunks of 4th Edition changes.

    It's also why, I expect, the designers don't usually create products set in previous timelines because, as you point out with Mazzy, going back to a previous time with a more modern ruleset can create confusion. Of course, they could simply explain it away with "the Realms is a vast land and none know everything about every corner of it. And the gods themselves are capricious and changeable. What may seem to be forbidden may not have always been so, and may not always remain so." Also, who's to say Mazzy's desire to be a paladin wasn't inspired by legendary tales of a time and place when a halfling did attain paladin status?

    I'm not saying it's a satisfactory explanation, but it's a discrepancy created by ruleset changes and thus is bound to drop a bomb on things occasionally regardless of how you handle it.

    The_New_Romance
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    GoodSteve said:

    For some reason, WotC figured they needed to really shake up their settings when a new edition of the rules came out

    So they could sell new versions of the sourcebooks, no doubt!

    booinyoureyeskcwise
  • FinellachFinellach Member Posts: 36
    edited September 2014



    [ shameless self-promotion ]

    I got six new choices for clerics right now, working on EE v1.3. Sune, Selune, Mystra, Tempus, Shar and Malar. I was thinking about Mask, but it makes more sense to roll a multiclass cleric/thief than to awkwardly fudge thief abilities in a cleric kit.
    http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/33657/scales-of-balance-get-it-kits-and-tweaks/p1

    Once IWD is released it would make sense to add a priest of Auril (probably replacing Talos).

    [ /shameless self-promotion ]

    Having a priest of Myrkul and Bane once IWD is released would make a lot of sense as well. Myrkul was the god of the dead and IMO extremely cool god. With Bane he was the prime Evil god of the era before the ToT (Time of Troubles) when the gods were "cast down" and forced to walk among normal people. There aren't enough evil gods as it is anyway. Malar is kinda meh to me since having a cleric of Malar is way too similar to a druid so I don't see the point why play one when you can play a druid.

    Anyway I don't think anything needs to be replaced, rather added more than anything. Having only three choices for cleric kits perhaps makes sense for BG series (due to possible strongholds in BG2) but for IWD there should be far more choices.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,371
    Finellach said:

    Having a priest of Myrkul and Bane once IWD is released would make a lot of sense as well. Myrkul was the god of the dead and IMO extremely cool god. With Bane he was the prime Evil god of the era before the ToT (Time of Troubles) when the gods were "cast down" and forced to walk among normal people. There aren't enough evil gods as it is anyway. Malar is kinda meh to me since having a cleric of Malar is way too similar to a druid so I don't see the point why play one when you can play a druid.

    The problem I found when making my mod is, you have to design things for this game, more than for general flavor. What do you do for priests of Myrkul or Bane or Cyric? Give them necromancy-ish powers? Okay, but all evil clerics are already kind of like that. Malar is a 'meh' deity, but *playing* a priest of Malar could be great chaos. Check my mod - hopefully the ability to use Beast Claw, and to turn it on and off at will, makes it fun to play.

    Likewise Ilmater: a very important deity, but I couldn't think of any mechanical bonuses that would be interesting. (More healing maybe? For a cleric? Redundant.) Selune was actually hard to make interesting as well, I just improvised.

    elminster
  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 924

    Dazzu said:

    Yet there are Halfling Paladins saving the Dale long before Mazzy was even born. Am I the only one seeing a huge disconnect?

    Well, a DM with any sense in their head would let a player who wanted to be a halfling Paladin play a damn halfling Paladin, so it's not as if halfling Paladins never existed ever before 3rd Edition. Race restrictions for basic classes are idiotic, so it stands to reason that a lot of people just didn't follow them, even in the AD&D days.
    This is where I'd edit Mazzy's portrait to have a single dramatic tear if I even knew how to art.

    I'm always baffled by how the rules are so malleable but everyone seems to know them. Heck, comparing BG to the goldbox, there are tons of differences off the bat and they're both the same edition (or rather, the original BG1 was 2E.)

    Imagine if tax laws were this bendable...

  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    Amusingly enough Mazzy couldn't be a paladin in BG2 anyway since she doesn't meet the minimum requirements. Go to charm school, little one!

    booinyoureyesThe_New_RomanceNimran
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,956
    edited September 2014
    kcwise said:

    Amusingly enough Mazzy couldn't be a paladin in BG2 anyway since she doesn't meet the minimum requirements. Go to charm school, little one!

    To be fair neither does Anomen (along with obviously Minsc). To have dual classed into a cleric he should have 17 wisdom and instead he starts with 12.

    kcwiseNimranJarrakul
  • The_New_RomanceThe_New_Romance Member Posts: 839
    edited September 2014
    Dazzu said:

    It just gets a bit canonically strange:

    Have you heard the tales of the Frozen Dale where a Halfling Paladin/Wizard and her allies stopped the Legion of the Chimera about 100 years ago? Well, Mazzy Fentan, have you?!

    It does get strange. But by the power of ret-con, these things are all possible! I'm very sure that with the advent of the 3E FRCS, by 1372 there had never been a question about the existence of such beings with the common folk in all the lands between the Shining South and the Spine of the World. What a woundrous spell this "ret-con" must be ;)

    kcwise
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,488

    Dazzu said:

    Yet there are Halfling Paladins saving the Dale long before Mazzy was even born. Am I the only one seeing a huge disconnect?

    Well, a DM with any sense in their head would let a player who wanted to be a halfling Paladin play a damn halfling Paladin, so it's not as if halfling Paladins never existed ever before 3rd Edition. Race restrictions for basic classes are idiotic, so it stands to reason that a lot of people just didn't follow them, even in the AD&D days.
    Yes, we did exactly this. I've even played a dwarven wizard in 2e. One of my favorite characters ever

    kcwiseJarrakul
  • kcwisekcwise Member Posts: 2,287
    elminster said:

    kcwise said:

    Amusingly enough Mazzy couldn't be a paladin in BG2 anyway since she doesn't meet the minimum requirements. Go to charm school, little one!

    To be fair neither does Anomen (along with obviously Minsc). To have dual classed into a cleric he should have 17 wisdom and instead he starts with 12.
    Good point! Coran was a big ol cheater with his longbow skill in BG too. I guess this proves the rules were meant to be broken.

    Jarrakul
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,745
    The cleric kits in BG pissed me off SO MUCH.
    I really hope we get them like IWD2, that was so much better.

  • DazzuDazzu Member Posts: 924
    Would've been nice to have racially proper cleric kits... Drow just LOVE a SUN god like Lathander

    ButtercheeseNimran
  • JarrakulJarrakul Member Posts: 2,028
    As a chronic houseruler and a consistent critic of the rules-as-written, can I just say I love you guys?

    GrammarsaladButtercheesekcwise
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,488
    Jarrakul said:

    As a chronic houseruler and a consistent critic of the rules-as-written, can I just say I love you guys?

    You can :) and we love you back!

    Buttercheesekcwise
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