Suggested Gameplay Changes for ID:EE
OlvynChuru
Member Posts: 3,075
Hi there. I'm new to this site, but I've been a fan of the IE games for almost a decade now. I want to share quite a few changes I suggest be made in the Enhanced Edition for Icewind Dale. Here we go:
First, magic changes:
*Cause Wounds spells should not offer any kind of saving throw. If you think this would make the spell Harm overpowered, I don't think so. If a cleric can go right next to a powerful enemy and wait there for a whole round without getting hit, they deserve to reduce that enemy's health to 1. Magic Resistance should still negate these spells, though.
*Call Lightning needs a reason to exist. Just about every significant battle in the original ID takes place indoors. Moreover, druids also have the spell Static Charge at just one spell level higher which is just as powerful but can be used indoors. My suggestion is that Call Lightning should call down one bolt per 5 rounds instead of per turn, while Static Charge should stick with one per turn.
*Sunray deals way less damage to undead creatures than it should. I mean, it's a level 7 spell made to eradicate undead and fungoid creatures, but even against those creatures it only deals 6-48 damage, with a save for half. That's pathetic. I suggest that you make Sunray deal more damage.
*Fire Storm is another level 7 druid spell that needs to be buffed. Currently, it only deals 2-16 damage, +1 per level, with a save for half. In comparison, the druid spell Smashing Wave deals 4d10 with a save for half, and is 3 spell levels lower.
*Mist of Eldath REALLY needs to be improved. Why would I use a level 7 spell slot to heal a measly 25 HP and cure ailments that aren't that hard to cure anyway by the time my druid is level 14 when I could instead summon TWO Shambling Mounds? What I suggest is that it should restore all health, but it should heal both allies and enemies that are in the area of effect. If you think that's overpowered, then fine, but I still hope they improve this spell in some way.
*Resist Fire/Cold is too powerful. A level 2 spell should not be able to half the damage from two very prominent elements so easily. My suggestion is to make the resistance scale off the caster's level: something like an initial 10% resistance, plus 2% per level, to a maximum of 50% at level 20.
*A character affected by the spell Blood Rage should not go berserk unless he/she is in combat.
*Poison (evil cleric level 4 spell) is currently very weak, as it has a very long casting time and either deals a mere 20 damage to a single enemy or, if they make their save, has no effect on them whatsoever. I recommend reducing the casting time to 1 and making it a no-save effect. If that is done, 20 damage is acceptable for it.
*In order to make Champion's Strength less luck-based, it should always set the target's strength to 22, rather than be a random number.
*Spiritual Wrath should offer no saving throw.
*For some reason, the spell Impervious Sanctity of Mind is 2 spell levels higher than Chaotic Commands, even though the latter is outright superior to the former. I suggest that Impervious Sanctity of Mind should be given some kind of significant edge over Chaotic Commands to balance it out. Maybe a much longer duration (such as a full day or multiple days) or an extremely short casting time.
*The 7th level priest spell Symbol of Hopelessness is incredibly overpowered, even for a level 7 spell. I suggest that its duration should be lowered to something like 1 round per 7 levels.
*Summoning spells should not summon a random number of creatures. It is completely unnecessary, since you can simply reload until you summoned the maximum number of creatures.
*The spell Strength should not increase strength by a random amount. I suggest making it a set number (for example, +2 for mages. +4 for clerics and thieves, and +6 for fighters). The same concept could apply for Cat's Grace.
*Mirror Image is way too powerful for a level 2 spell. You get up to eight copies, each of which can absorb all of the damage from a spell or attack (because a level 2 spell should totally be able to completely negate the damage from a Horrid Wilting). My suggestion is for the maximum number of images to be four, not eight.
*Decastave should restore more health (maybe like 4 or 5 points) when it hits somebody, and it should do that each time it hits, not just the first hit. There is also a bug with this spell: If someone with a shield equipped casts Decastave, the game crashes. That obviously should be fixed.
*Web, Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, Death Fog and Acid Storm should all have shorter durations. It is really annoying to have to wait for the spell to subside before being able to save or rest.
*Haste should have a really short duration. It is currently way more powerful than a level 3 spell ever has a right to be.
*Oh, and Haste isn't the only overpowered level 3 spell. Take a look at Slow. Half movement and APR? +4 AC penalty? -4 attack penalty? AOE effect? And it's enemies only? AND they get a -4 penalty to their save against this spell? And... it's... only... a... level... 3... spell? REALLY?! In all seriousness, this spell really needs to be nerfed.
*Skull Trap damage should cap at level 10, just like Fireball and Lightning bolt do. If it already does, at least edit Skull Trap's description to make that clear.
*Either take Non-Detection out of the game or give it a use. I don't remember the last time my character was invisible and then got detected by divination magic in this game.
*Dimension Door should become a level 2 spell or something. It is way too weak to be a level 4 spell.
*The description for Otiluke's Resilient Sphere should make it clear that there is no saving throw when it is cast on one of the caster's allies.
*Just like Mirror Image, Stoneskin is way too good. It makes a mage a better tank than a fighter. That simply shouldn't be. I think that instead of negating all damage, Stoneskin should provide some physical damage resistance that goes away after the caster gets hit enough times. Also, the casting time should be longer.
*Emotion: Fear seems to be inferior to the lower level spell Horror, based on their descriptions. If this is so, I suggest that the save for Emotion: Fear should be made at a very significant penalty, like -6 or something. Remember that Emotion spells affect both enemies and allies, so it will still require skill to use well.
*Emotion: Hope and Emotion: Courage have a much longer duration than they should. Combining both of those spells with Haste turns a party into an unstoppable force that can barrel through most of the game with little to no effort. I suggest that their duration should be shortened to something like 4 rounds.
*Feeblemind should not last permanently.
*An enemy's Magic Resistance should NOT negate the spell Lower Resistance.
*Otiluke's Freezing Sphere should do half damage when the target makes their save, instead of no damage at all.
*Mass Invisibility should give an Improved Invisibility effect, not normal invisibility.
*Incendiary Cloud should do more damage. Here is my suggestion: 2 damage per level the third round, 4 damage per level the fourth round, and 2 damage per level the fifth round. Although this means it will do a lot of damage, it will only do so if the enemies stay in the cloud for a while, so I think it would be balanced.
*Iron Body should give about 30% resistance to all physical damage types, not just 25% crushing.
That's all the magic changes I can think of. I'll discuss other suggestions I have in mind later. In the meantime, tell me what you think of the suggestions above.
First, magic changes:
*Cause Wounds spells should not offer any kind of saving throw. If you think this would make the spell Harm overpowered, I don't think so. If a cleric can go right next to a powerful enemy and wait there for a whole round without getting hit, they deserve to reduce that enemy's health to 1. Magic Resistance should still negate these spells, though.
*Call Lightning needs a reason to exist. Just about every significant battle in the original ID takes place indoors. Moreover, druids also have the spell Static Charge at just one spell level higher which is just as powerful but can be used indoors. My suggestion is that Call Lightning should call down one bolt per 5 rounds instead of per turn, while Static Charge should stick with one per turn.
*Sunray deals way less damage to undead creatures than it should. I mean, it's a level 7 spell made to eradicate undead and fungoid creatures, but even against those creatures it only deals 6-48 damage, with a save for half. That's pathetic. I suggest that you make Sunray deal more damage.
*Fire Storm is another level 7 druid spell that needs to be buffed. Currently, it only deals 2-16 damage, +1 per level, with a save for half. In comparison, the druid spell Smashing Wave deals 4d10 with a save for half, and is 3 spell levels lower.
*Mist of Eldath REALLY needs to be improved. Why would I use a level 7 spell slot to heal a measly 25 HP and cure ailments that aren't that hard to cure anyway by the time my druid is level 14 when I could instead summon TWO Shambling Mounds? What I suggest is that it should restore all health, but it should heal both allies and enemies that are in the area of effect. If you think that's overpowered, then fine, but I still hope they improve this spell in some way.
*Resist Fire/Cold is too powerful. A level 2 spell should not be able to half the damage from two very prominent elements so easily. My suggestion is to make the resistance scale off the caster's level: something like an initial 10% resistance, plus 2% per level, to a maximum of 50% at level 20.
*A character affected by the spell Blood Rage should not go berserk unless he/she is in combat.
*Poison (evil cleric level 4 spell) is currently very weak, as it has a very long casting time and either deals a mere 20 damage to a single enemy or, if they make their save, has no effect on them whatsoever. I recommend reducing the casting time to 1 and making it a no-save effect. If that is done, 20 damage is acceptable for it.
*In order to make Champion's Strength less luck-based, it should always set the target's strength to 22, rather than be a random number.
*Spiritual Wrath should offer no saving throw.
*For some reason, the spell Impervious Sanctity of Mind is 2 spell levels higher than Chaotic Commands, even though the latter is outright superior to the former. I suggest that Impervious Sanctity of Mind should be given some kind of significant edge over Chaotic Commands to balance it out. Maybe a much longer duration (such as a full day or multiple days) or an extremely short casting time.
*The 7th level priest spell Symbol of Hopelessness is incredibly overpowered, even for a level 7 spell. I suggest that its duration should be lowered to something like 1 round per 7 levels.
*Summoning spells should not summon a random number of creatures. It is completely unnecessary, since you can simply reload until you summoned the maximum number of creatures.
*The spell Strength should not increase strength by a random amount. I suggest making it a set number (for example, +2 for mages. +4 for clerics and thieves, and +6 for fighters). The same concept could apply for Cat's Grace.
*Mirror Image is way too powerful for a level 2 spell. You get up to eight copies, each of which can absorb all of the damage from a spell or attack (because a level 2 spell should totally be able to completely negate the damage from a Horrid Wilting). My suggestion is for the maximum number of images to be four, not eight.
*Decastave should restore more health (maybe like 4 or 5 points) when it hits somebody, and it should do that each time it hits, not just the first hit. There is also a bug with this spell: If someone with a shield equipped casts Decastave, the game crashes. That obviously should be fixed.
*Web, Stinking Cloud, Cloudkill, Death Fog and Acid Storm should all have shorter durations. It is really annoying to have to wait for the spell to subside before being able to save or rest.
*Haste should have a really short duration. It is currently way more powerful than a level 3 spell ever has a right to be.
*Oh, and Haste isn't the only overpowered level 3 spell. Take a look at Slow. Half movement and APR? +4 AC penalty? -4 attack penalty? AOE effect? And it's enemies only? AND they get a -4 penalty to their save against this spell? And... it's... only... a... level... 3... spell? REALLY?! In all seriousness, this spell really needs to be nerfed.
*Skull Trap damage should cap at level 10, just like Fireball and Lightning bolt do. If it already does, at least edit Skull Trap's description to make that clear.
*Either take Non-Detection out of the game or give it a use. I don't remember the last time my character was invisible and then got detected by divination magic in this game.
*Dimension Door should become a level 2 spell or something. It is way too weak to be a level 4 spell.
*The description for Otiluke's Resilient Sphere should make it clear that there is no saving throw when it is cast on one of the caster's allies.
*Just like Mirror Image, Stoneskin is way too good. It makes a mage a better tank than a fighter. That simply shouldn't be. I think that instead of negating all damage, Stoneskin should provide some physical damage resistance that goes away after the caster gets hit enough times. Also, the casting time should be longer.
*Emotion: Fear seems to be inferior to the lower level spell Horror, based on their descriptions. If this is so, I suggest that the save for Emotion: Fear should be made at a very significant penalty, like -6 or something. Remember that Emotion spells affect both enemies and allies, so it will still require skill to use well.
*Emotion: Hope and Emotion: Courage have a much longer duration than they should. Combining both of those spells with Haste turns a party into an unstoppable force that can barrel through most of the game with little to no effort. I suggest that their duration should be shortened to something like 4 rounds.
*Feeblemind should not last permanently.
*An enemy's Magic Resistance should NOT negate the spell Lower Resistance.
*Otiluke's Freezing Sphere should do half damage when the target makes their save, instead of no damage at all.
*Mass Invisibility should give an Improved Invisibility effect, not normal invisibility.
*Incendiary Cloud should do more damage. Here is my suggestion: 2 damage per level the third round, 4 damage per level the fourth round, and 2 damage per level the fifth round. Although this means it will do a lot of damage, it will only do so if the enemies stay in the cloud for a while, so I think it would be balanced.
*Iron Body should give about 30% resistance to all physical damage types, not just 25% crushing.
That's all the magic changes I can think of. I'll discuss other suggestions I have in mind later. In the meantime, tell me what you think of the suggestions above.
2
Comments
*Cause Wounds spells should not offer any kind of saving throw.
My altered "cause wounds" spells already do this.
*Sunray deals way less damage to undead creatures than it should. I mean, it's a level 7 spell made to eradicate undead and fungoid creatures, but even against those creatures it only deals 6-48 damage, with a save for half. That's pathetic. I suggest that you make Sunray deal more damage.
I added the Mace of Disruption effect (opcode 284) to Sunray. Undead struck by Sunray now run the risk of being destroyed, based on their level, in addition to suffering the damage.
*Fire Storm is another level 7 druid spell that needs to be buffed.
My Fire Storm does 1d8+1 damage per level, save for half.
*Mist of Eldath REALLY needs to be improved.
My Mist of Eldath now heals the party to 75% full health, not a mere 25 health.
*A character affected by the spell Blood Rage should not go berserk unless he/she is in combat.
*Poison (evil cleric level 4 spell) is currently very weak
My Poison does 1 damage every 2 seconds, lasting one round per level, and has a 1% chance per level of the caster of killing the target instantly.
*Spiritual Wrath should offer no saving throw.
My Spritual Wrath still has a saving throw but the damage has been increased to 1d10 per level.
*Impervious Sanctity of Mind
I don't recall changing this one but it does last longer than Chaotic Commands.
*Symbol of Hopelessness
This spell is supposed to be nasty. I recommend the two previous spells, Chaotic Commands or ISoM.
*Summoning spells
I changed *all* the summoning spells for mages to give 1 HD of monsters per level of the caster and to use opcode 259, summon creatures with cloud, rather than any other opcode or an .eff file.
*Mirror Image
I changed this to give one image per 3 levels of the caster (2 at 6th, 3 at 9th, etc), maxing out at 24th level.
*Decastave
I have never used or edited this spell.
*Haste
I disagree--the duration is just right.
*Slow
I like Slow just like it is. If it is changed I will simply change it back.
*Skull Trap
All the direct damage spells max out at 20th level in my edits. A 20d6 fireball is an enjoyable sight, especially against foes who have no special protection against fire.
*Non-Detection
I have never used it in IWD but I fixed it for BG/BG2 to make the target immune to secondary type 'divination attack'.
*Otiluke's Resilient Sphere
I made it so that it has no saving throw at all--the target simply has to wait until the spell ends. They are held, are immune to opcode 12 (damage), and have 100% MR. Very good for quick-saving a badly injured party member or for removing a particular foe from combat for a little while.
*Stoneskin
No, Stoneskin is just fine.
*Emotion: Fear seems to be inferior to the lower level spell Horror, based on their descriptions. If this is so, I suggest that the save for Emotion: Fear should be made at a very significant penalty, like -6 or something. Remember that Emotion spells affect both enemies and allies, so it will still require skill to use well.
*Emotion: Hope and Emotion: Courage have a much longer duration than they should. Combining both of those spells with Haste turns a party into an unstoppable force that can barrel through most of the game with little to no effort. I suggest that their duration should be shortened to something like 4 rounds.
*Feeblemind
The original pencil & paper spell does. Even if it last only one turn that is long enough to beat the now scriptless target to death.
*Lower Resistance
The Infinity Engine wasn't/isn't complex enough to half MR before checking this spell. Right now, as I look at it, apparently it is coded so that the subject has a 50% of not being able to resist the lowering at all and a 50% of resisting it completely. I concur--just have it go through and lower the resistance by 10% + 1%/level as per the spell.
*Otiluke's Freezing Sphere
I concur...but it appears I did not fix this spell. How odd.
*Mass Invisibility should give an Improved Invisibility effect, not normal invisibility.
*Incendiary Cloud
My Incendiary Cloud does 1d4 per level, save for half. This doesn't sound like much but the minimum damage is 16d4 and it will hit four times (or is it five?) before it runs out. With all saving throws made the minimum damage is 32d4, which has a mean of 80.
*Iron Body
Given that the spell turns you into an iron golem, it should also make the caster immune to weapons of +2 enchantment or lower.
Are you planning on releasing a mod for IWDEE spell tweaks? It sounds fun.
Many of the mods are to the damage and summoning spells. Trying to play in HoF mode yet being capped at 10d6 for damage means you barely ruffle the feathers of your foes.
Skull Trap has some advantages over Fireball as well. Obviously Fireball can't be put down as an obstacle, but another thing about Skull Trap is that it deals magic damage, which is resisted by way fewer enemies than fire damage is. You may argue that Fireball would still be better despite this, but that's okay. Both spells would have their place, and that's what I like. I still think that Skull Trap should do the same damage as those other two spells.
@Fardragon
Game balance is not the opposite of role playing. Suppose you wanted to play Icewind Dale as an evil cleric who wants to poison everyone to death. The problem is that the spell Poison currently sucks and is no fun to use. Half the time you cast it, it does nothing at all, and the other half of the time it simply deals 20 damage. Even with the changes I suggested for Poison I doubt it would be overpowered; what matters is that it would have a point.
@The_New_Romance
If DnD was never about balance, I'm surprised they didn't put Power Word Kill as a level 1 spell alongside things like Shocking Grasp and Chill Touch.
@Mathsorcerer
I'm just going to comment on what you said about Impervious Sanctity of Mind and Symbol of Hopelessness. The version of Icewind Dale I have is unmodded and has HoW but not TotLM. In this version, both Chaotic Commands and ISoM last for 1 turn/level. So no, ISoM does not last longer. Another important thing I just remembered was that druids learn ISoM but not Chaotic Commands. So that spell does actually have a point, sorry. However, I don't see why clerics can learn ISoM when they also have CC. As for Symbol of Hopelessness, my problem isn't that enemies use it. In fact, I really like that in HoW they made those Greater Mummies cast it. What I don't like about it is that it makes the game too easy when you use it. Of course, you might just say, "if you don't like it then don't use it." The thing is that I want to use it. I don't want a spell to be barred from me because it's too good or too bad. That's why I want SoH to be nerfed.
Currently, SoH lasts 2 turns and the change you propose would limit it to only 3 rounds even for 20th-level casters. Would 1 turn be an acceptable middle ground? Most of the creatures against which you cast this spell probably aren't going to live much longer than that turn, anyway, so making the duration shorter is certainly not objectionable...at least not to me.
Making it target everyone would force you to pull everyone back and cast it as far away as you can just like for area effect damage spells. That isn't a bad idea.
Or accept that it's a stupid plan and your "want to poison everyone" cleric is and idiot who is doomed to fail.
The thing with "balance" is it renders choice meaningless. Do you think we would be having all these discussions about "what is the best party" etc if the game was balanced? No, it wouldn't matter what we choose because all options would be equally good.
For example, Larloch's Minor Drain is more or less a useless ability. Why should it not have some kind of scaling component that would make it at least useful in certain situations or a one time use spell for the extra HP? Funnily enough, level one mage level is actually the tier with the most useful spells.
Just because most of the spells would be balanced doesn't mean that one spell would be just as good as another in every situation. Let's say that you have Fireball and Skull Trap and you're fighting the salamanders in Lower Dorn's Deep. Obviously Skull Trap would be a better choice, even if it was nerfed like I suggested and only did 10d6 damage max. There are other times when Fireball would be a better spell as well. The reason for balancing out a game like Icewind Dale isn't to make all the spells the same, but rather to make it so that each spell has a point. With a spell like Firestorm, I would be fine if it was the same as it was in Bg2, where it lasts for multiple rounds. It still wouldn't be overpowered, but it would feel like it does the damage a level 7 fire storm should do.
As for "why shouldn't it"? Because it doesn't in PnP. Some of us actually LIKE that BG tries to recreate the PnP rules, useless spells and all. If you want to use some other rule set, that's fine, mod it yourself, but don't try to impose it on the rest of us!
As for the second part of your post, I am not imposing anything. I do not have some kind of special influence... I simply would have been gladdened to see some abilities buffed/nerfed by default (like in the Spell Revision mod of BG2). At the same time, I was merely replying to a person whom implied that balance = homogenization which is certainly not true.
I do not see, however, why you would actually want worthless abilities (any ability) in your spellbook. Hell, the PnP even regularly buffs and nerfs abilities between the different editions to address (successfully or not) such discrepancies in spell power.
Also, it is called a suggestion.
So, they most certainly didn't do a perfect job with converting the rules to a computer game, but that'd be practically impossible anyway. I'd still say that most spells were based on their PnP counterparts with regards to spell level, school and effects. It's just that it's a compromise, and of course with every compromise there's room for improvement, at least perceived room for improvement. I wouldn't want to put the burden of that on Beamdog, though, as how others have pointed out: how the room is perceived exactly depends a lot on the individual in question.