I never understood why Gygax thought priest kits should be divided by god rather than what kind of priest you are (ie, shaman, chanter, spiritual leader, preacher.)
? Priests enjoyed probably the largest variety of kits in AD&D, ever. They had specialty priest kits, clerics, shamans, druids, witch doctors, oracles, wandering mystics, war priests, fighting-monks, pacifit priests and on top of that two dozen other alternatives as well.
Why didn't we get those... wait, why are druids and monks listed as cleric kits?
The Monk base class wasn't in 2nd edition core rules.
Right. The problem, as I understand it, is less "this can't be done, or is technically very difficult" and more "this is a freaking ton of tedious work and not generally worth the effort."
Right. The problem, as I understand it, is less "this can't be done, or is technically very difficult" and more "this is a freaking ton of tedious work and not generally worth the effort."
We know it CAN be done, because IWD2 changed the way weapon proficiencies work, off the back of the original BG engine. But it has a knock on affect that would affect other aspects of the game - which means it's not just the amount of tedious work - it's the amount of fresh bugs that could be introduced.
Prohibiting a kit from using weapons or armour that the base class can use isn't too difficult. Changing the maximum number of stars a kit can put into a weapon is easy. Granting access to weapons or armour that the base class can't use means changes to the base class, other kits, and to weapons, as well as the kit itself.
Having Paladins and Priests of Kelemvor in IWD would be anachronistic because Kelemvor became a god just before the entire Bhaalspawn saga started. Since IWD is happening some 70-100 years before all that it would be wrong...at the time when IWD story is happening Myrkul was still the god holding that particular portfolio. I am not sure Kelemvor was even born at that time.
Bhaal and Myrkul would be fairly awesome. Would be nice to see some kits for gods that were killed off later in the realm's timeframe.
It would be cool if some different cleric kits gave different weapon proficiency.
I think that would be technically very difficult to implement.
I don't see why. Kits already allow for different proficiency levels and block or allow certain weapons and armor.
Class prohibitions are in the item files. You would have to edit the files for all items of the type you are now going to permit.
Assuming we are starting with the bgee engine with few dramatic changes, this is fairly easy with weidu. What is slightly more difficult is giving usability to a kit that is not available to the base class. There is at least one way around this, however. It is possible to convert the base class to a 'stealth' kit, with whatever restrictions you want but make the 'hidden, but true class have all the usabilities you want for all kits.
. Assuming we are starting with the bgee engine with few dramatic changes, this is fairly easy with weidu. What is slightly more difficult is giving usability to a kit that is not available to the base class. There is at least one way around this, however. It is possible to convert the base class to a 'stealth' kit, with whatever restrictions you want but make the 'hidden, but true class have all the usabilities you want for all kits.
Even so, you run into the problem of only having 32 usability bits to play with. I use some of these shenanigans to get the goofy usabilities working for the SP Collection kits and also take advantage of some underutilized bits. It certainly works, but it's not a very extensible method nor does it play nicely with other mods.
. Assuming we are starting with the bgee engine with few dramatic changes, this is fairly easy with weidu. What is slightly more difficult is giving usability to a kit that is not available to the base class. There is at least one way around this, however. It is possible to convert the base class to a 'stealth' kit, with whatever restrictions you want but make the 'hidden, but true class have all the usabilities you want for all kits.
Even so, you run into the problem of only having 32 usability bits to play with. I use some of these shenanigans to get the goofy usabilities working for the SP Collection kits and also take advantage of some underutilized bits. It certainly works, but it's not a very extensible method nor does it play nicely with other mods.
The ’faiths of Faerûn' used different shenanigans to get some goofy usabilities; I think it allowed for potentially unlimited variation in usabilities without messing with the usability bits at all. I think it used the use any item opcode (302), and Opcode's 180 and 181 (can't use item and item type)....I think.
Bhaal and Myrkul would be fairly awesome. Would be nice to see some kits for gods that were killed off later in the realm's timeframe.
It would be cool if some different cleric kits gave different weapon proficiency.
I think that would be technically very difficult to implement.
I don't see why. Kits already allow for different proficiency levels and block or allow certain weapons and armor.
Class prohibitions are in the item files. You would have to edit the files for all items of the type you are now going to permit.
Assuming we are starting with the bgee engine with few dramatic changes, this is fairly easy with weidu. What is slightly more difficult is giving usability to a kit that is not available to the base class. There is at least one way around this, however. It is possible to convert the base class to a 'stealth' kit, with whatever restrictions you want but make the 'hidden, but true class have all the usabilities you want for all kits.
Yes, I thought of this method. You could use paladin as the actual base class for example. It's a fiddle though, and still potentially bug generating. There are a lot of good cleric kits you could create a lot more staightforwardly.
Frankly although I see the total coolness of have a Cleric of Auril kit, it comes into conflict with ... well, you know, the story of the game? Preserving the warmth of the Great Tree in Kuldahar and killing several Aurilites throughout the game seems like something the bitter Goddess of Winter would take exception to - especially if the person enacting it was her own Cleric.
I would really like to see Selune, Milil, Tempus, and Beshaba. I would like a Cleric of Bane, too, but at this point in time Bane is a dead deity, isn't he? If so, it doesn't really work to have him in (and doesn't really work in IWD2 either, for that matter - if Bane is dead, who is giving your Dreadmaster their spells?! Iacythu Xvim? Hardly: he's practically the last boss).
Bane was killed during the Time of Troubles (1358DR). Icewind Dale takes place in 1281 DR. So Bane would be still alive. Same goes for IWD2 since its set about 30 years after IWD.
it would be interesting to see priest of myrkul, ilmater, tempus, auril? because these deities are major in iwd storyline but i cant see it happening since it involves many dialog lines changing.
The Divine Remix mod already adds a lot of these - unfortunately, it doesn't work with EE. So, for a start, I'd just like to see Divine Remix made compatable with EE.
The Divine Remix mod already adds a lot of these - unfortunately, it doesn't work with EE. So, for a start, I'd just like to see Divine Remix made compatable with EE.
Doesn't seem like it's gonna happen anytime soon, plus Divine Remix was not very friendly to other mods.
Yeah. We designed all sorts of easy macros for other divine kits to bring them into DR's heavily revised divine magic system and simply never got much buy-in. It's a shame, too--I love DR, and it could be extended indefinitely with the framework and templates already built.
Even if you ignore intrafaith conflict, nobody in the North likes Aurilites. Maybe yetis, but they aren't building towns for you to save, they are growing saleable pelts for you to farm!
The townsfolk in Easthaven wouldn't be welcoming, and no chance you'd help Kuldahar, as you'd see the tree as an abomination.
Even if you ignore intrafaith conflict, nobody in the North likes Aurilites. Maybe yetis, but they aren't building towns for you to save, they are growing saleable pelts for you to farm!
The townsfolk in Easthaven wouldn't be welcoming, and no chance you'd help Kuldahar, as you'd see the tree as an abomination.
You have to understand that my playthroughs are often as "evil" as possible. Especially in Icewind Dale II where I'd slaughter innocents and backstab anyone at every chance I get. Very much so without breaking the continuation of the story arc.
It may be futile for me to attempt to change something that fits the storyline, but I'd like to see more lore-friendly cleric kits that adds flavor the the gaming experience.
Yeah, an Aurilite poses serious problems with the storyline. It's unlikely that Hrothgar or Arundel would even approach you for help, and you'd have absolutely no reason to help Kresselack in the resolution of the Vale quests.
Technically, like all cleric kits, it's pretty easy to come up with an idea. Give them, say, Ice Storm as their 1/5 spell and some kind of frozen shield (some combo of stoneskin + fire-shield-esque slow on hit) as their 1/10.
Yeah, an Aurilite poses serious problems with the storyline. It's unlikely that Hrothgar or Arundel would even approach you for help, and you'd have absolutely no reason to help Kresselack in the resolution of the Vale quests.
Technically, like all cleric kits, it's pretty easy to come up with an idea. Give them, say, Ice Storm as their 1/5 spell and some kind of frozen shield (some combo of stoneskin + fire-shield-esque slow on hit) as their 1/10.
But here's where players (or gameplay) should get creative.
Lysan herself was disguised as a barmaid and was able to infiltrate Kuldahar and spread rumors that stir the populace in unease.
Perhaps if the player's characters were to do the same, they can move on undetected unless they pronounce themselves as the enemies of Kuldahar.
Frankly, I just don't think the sphere system works well in BG2. In PnP you could comb through tons of sources and fill out a nice spell "book" even with very limited sphere access. But in BG2 you could easily get stuck with only a few spells to choose from at a given level.
Bingo. DR's plan to oversome that was going to be to pile on new spells. Rolling something like IWDification into the mix would help but some kits inevitably end up getting shafted.
Yeah, an Aurilite poses serious problems with the storyline. It's unlikely that Hrothgar or Arundel would even approach you for help, and you'd have absolutely no reason to help Kresselack in the resolution of the Vale quests.
Technically, like all cleric kits, it's pretty easy to come up with an idea. Give them, say, Ice Storm as their 1/5 spell and some kind of frozen shield (some combo of stoneskin + fire-shield-esque slow on hit) as their 1/10.
That kind of approach is a bit dull though.
I would rather have a kit with a significant weakness (e.g. armour restrictions) in exchange for something gameplay changing.
E.g. a cleric version of the Avenger kit - no armour in exchange for a good selection of mage spells. Maybe associated with Mystra?
I would suggest Doomguide of Kelvamor, but I don't think Kelvamor is born yet.
How difficult would it be to do Favoured Soul? Learn spells as a sorcerer in exchange for no heavy armour.
Yeah, an Aurilite poses serious problems with the storyline. It's unlikely that Hrothgar or Arundel would even approach you for help, and you'd have absolutely no reason to help Kresselack in the resolution of the Vale quests.
Technically, like all cleric kits, it's pretty easy to come up with an idea. Give them, say, Ice Storm as their 1/5 spell and some kind of frozen shield (some combo of stoneskin + fire-shield-esque slow on hit) as their 1/10.
That kind of approach is a bit dull though.
I would rather have a kit with a significant weakness (e.g. armour restrictions) in exchange for something gameplay changing.
E.g. a cleric version of the Avenger kit - no armour in exchange for a good selection of mage spells. Maybe associated with Mystra?
Problem is there isn't any cleric kit that already has restrictions on armor. As I understand it you'd likely have to use the exclusion flags of another classes kit, which presents its own issues.
As for favored soul, I recall reading that someone had a working prototype of a sorcerer that can cast priests spells, but I forget where. Somewhere in the general modding forum. Seems like an ungodly amount of work, and I'm not sure it ever got to being bug-free.
Comments
Prohibiting a kit from using weapons or armour that the base class can use isn't too difficult. Changing the maximum number of stars a kit can put into a weapon is easy. Granting access to weapons or armour that the base class can't use means changes to the base class, other kits, and to weapons, as well as the kit itself.
http://www.gibberlings3.net/cleric/
Though it might be a bit lore-breaking since..
The townsfolk in Easthaven wouldn't be welcoming, and no chance you'd help Kuldahar, as you'd see the tree as an abomination.
It may be futile for me to attempt to change something that fits the storyline, but I'd like to see more lore-friendly cleric kits that adds flavor the the gaming experience.
You'd be killed by Hrothgar right at the start.
Technically, like all cleric kits, it's pretty easy to come up with an idea. Give them, say, Ice Storm as their 1/5 spell and some kind of frozen shield (some combo of stoneskin + fire-shield-esque slow on hit) as their 1/10.
Perhaps if the player's characters were to do the same, they can move on undetected unless they pronounce themselves as the enemies of Kuldahar.
I would rather have a kit with a significant weakness (e.g. armour restrictions) in exchange for something gameplay changing.
E.g. a cleric version of the Avenger kit - no armour in exchange for a good selection of mage spells. Maybe associated with Mystra?
I would suggest Doomguide of Kelvamor, but I don't think Kelvamor is born yet.
How difficult would it be to do Favoured Soul? Learn spells as a sorcerer in exchange for no heavy armour.
http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/30543/mod-favoured-soul