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[Kit Mod] Ideas for an improved Archer kit

argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
edited September 2014 in General Modding
I haven't touched the kit creation topic for years. That's why I'm glad to see @CrevsDaak has put together a very helpful kit creation guide. I know that there are already a number of mods out there that also attempt to improve the Archer kit, but it doesn't hurt to see yet another mod to add enhancements to it. I've initially planned to create this kit only for my next walkthrough, but I'll make it publicly available if it actually turns out well.

Since vanilla Archers are pretty badly balanced (starting strong and getting less and less useful in the later game), I have put together my own idea of an Archer. I'd appreciate any kind of feedback.

Archer kit description (2nd update):

ARCHER: The Archer is the epitome of skill with the bow—the ultimate marks<PRO_MANWOMAN>, able to make almost any shot, no matter how difficult. To become so skilled with the bow, the Archer has had to sacrifice some of <PRO_HISHER> proficiency with melee weapons and armor.

Advantages:
– +1 to hit and damage rolls with any missile weapon every 3 levels.
– +1 to AC vs. missile weapons every 6 levels.
– May achieve Grandmastery (5 slots) in longbows, shortbows, and crossbows.
– May use Rooting Shot ability once per day every 4 levels. Can not be used together with other shot abilities.
– May use Power Shot ability once per day every 4 levels, starting at level 8. Can not be used together with other shot abilities.
– May use Explosive Shot ability once per day every 4 levels, starting at level 8. Can not be used together with other shot abilities.
– May use Create Blessed Ammunition ability once per day every 4 levels.

ROOTING SHOT: All successful ranged attacks within the next 12 seconds will entangle the target, according to the level of the Archer:
4th level: Target is entangled for three rounds if failed save vs. Spell.
8th level: Target is entangled for three rounds if failed save vs. Spell at -1 penalty.
12th level: Target is entangled for four rounds if failed save vs. Spell at -1 penalty.
16th level: Target is entangled for four rounds if failed save vs. Spell at -2 penalty.
20th level: Target is entangled for five rounds if failed save vs. Spell at -2 penalty.

POWER SHOT: All successful ranged attacks within the next 12 seconds have a chance to knock back the target, according to the level of the Archer:
8th level: Knock back target if failed save vs. Breath.
12th level: Knock back target if failed save vs. Breath at -1 penalty.
16th level: Knock back target if failed save vs. Breath at -2 penalty.
20th level: Knock back target if failed save vs. Breath at -3 penalty.

EXPLOSIVE SHOT: All successful ranged attacks within the next 12 seconds will explode on impact and cause physical damage to nearby targets in 15' range, according to the level of the Archer:
8th level: 1d4 damage to nearby targets
12th level: 1d4+2 damage to nearby targets
16th level: 1d4+4 damage to nearby targets
20th level: 1d4+6 damage to nearby targets
Caution: Damages enemies, allies and innocent bystanders alike.

CREATE BLESSED AMMUNITION: Create a spiritual arrow or bolt blessed by the Archer's worshipped god or goddess for 8 hours containing a score charges.
4th level: +1 enchantment, +1 to hit and damage rolls, additional 1d6 damage and slow for two rounds to undead if failed save vs. Death.
8th level: +1 enchantment, +2 to hit and damage rolls, additional 1d6+2 damage and hold for two rounds to undead if failed save vs. Death.
12th level: +2 enchantment, +2 to hit and damage rolls, additional 1d6+4 damage and instant death to undead if failed save vs. Death.
16th level: +3 enchantment, +3 to hit and damage rolls, additional 1d6+6 damage and instant death to undead if failed save vs. Death at -2 penalty.
20th level: +4 enchantment, +4 to hit and damage rolls, additional 1d6+8 damage and instant death to undead if failed save vs. Death at -4 penalty.

Disadvantages:
– -1 CON penalty
– May not wear any metal armor.
– May only become Proficient (one slot) with melee weapons.
– Two Weapon style bonus removed after character creation.
– May not cast any spells.


I'm also planning to add the following HLAs:
Sure Shot
High-level Archers have gained perfect control over their ranged weapon of choice which allows them to point out and target vital areas of the opponent with frightening precision and speed. By enabling this ability, the Archer takes up <PRO_HISHER> stance and shoots missiles in rapid succession.
For the next 12 seconds this ability sets one's number of attacks per round to 10 and every shot is considered a critical hit. Since this technique requires utmost skill and concentration, the Archer is rooted to the spot for the next two rounds. It can not be used together with other shot abilities.

Requires: Critical Strike


Missile Trap
This ability allows the Archer to set a powerful spring-loaded missile trap in the chosen location when no hostile creatures are in sight. It does 3d10 missile damage and each 1d10 damage of various elemental types to the unsuspecting creature that sets it off.

Post edited by argent77 on
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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2014
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  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    edited September 2014
    How about reduced/disabled spellcasting and d8 for hit points instead of d10? Archers have very rudimentary training in melee and shouldn't have the endurance to match a frontline.

    I'm personally not fond of knockback effects. Not only because they can trivialize melee opponents in many cases, but also because I've played with the effect, and it often glitches (especially when spammed) causing weird issues like enemies being pinned against walls (effectively entangled, but it's worse because they still try to move, therefore they basically do nothing) and in worst cases sent through walls.

    Seeing a -6 penalty to save vs. stun makes me cringe a little. It seems way too high for a status effect that can effectively be auto-win. A surprising number of powerful enemies can be stunned, especially in a non-SCS game. With Greater Malison and Doom, a -12 penalty altogether is just stupid especially since it can be reapplied with every hit. What else has a -6 penalty to save? Spook? Even -4 is a bit much considering you'd have, what, 3-4 APR at that point? I'd change it to maybe -1/-2/-3.

    I've also played with the 'explosive shot' effect on my Arcane Archer Kit. Creating a spell-like on hit effect is a pain in the ass, making it scale with level is even more so. Have you already made the spell? I haven't found an efficient way to do it.

    Lastly, the blessed arrow is... weird. Not that it's a bad or broken spell, but I'd think it would be more useful as a weapon version of Bolt of Glory, doing extra damage to demons, outsiders as well as undead. I'd also maybe remove instant death for the 12th level version.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478

    You can do it with a 'set proficiencies' .spl added to the Archer CLAB file.

    Yes, this might work. I didn't think of that possibility.

    Stunning shot: The entangle effect is a good idea. It would also be more fitting for a ranger.

    Power shot: I agree, using saving throws is more consistent with other spells.

    Explosive shot: The explosion projectile still has some issues in my tests. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I need to experiment a bit more.

    The save penalties are a bit high. I didn't take Malison/Doom into account when I came up with these effects. Reducing it to half of the current values seems more reasonable.

    Blessed arrows do additional damage and (on higher levels) instant death to undead creatures. I can try to expand it to all kinds of unnatural creatures. I guess this would include undead, demons and devils. Not sure if I should include other kinds of outsiders. Not all of them are destructive in nature. But I have to replace the death effect by something more fitting in this case. I don't think rangers would have the power to destroy powerful demons so easily.

    How about reduced/disabled spellcasting and d8 for hit points instead of d10? Archers have very rudimentary training in melee and shouldn't have the endurance to match a frontline.

    Reduced hit points would be a reasonable drawback. I might also add a higher DEX requirement and (if possible) a lower CON requirement instead.
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  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    @Sergio‌ Refinements has some interesting ideas, and so does Kit Revision. But I'd like to avoid copying their ideas if possible. I'd rather concentrate on optimizing the features described in my first post to make them more useful and fitting for a ranger kit.

    @subtledoctor‌ Using your spell to remove the initial points in 2-weapon style works, but it's still showing up during character creation. I guess that's really hardcoded.

    I might also improve the original Called Shot ability a bit. I can imagine applying one or another crippling effect on higher levels. Blindness or slow might work.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    I have updated the original kit description in my first post.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    argent77 said:

    subtledoctor‌ Using your spell to remove the initial points in 2-weapon style works, but it's still showing up during character creation. I guess that's really hardcoded.

    Yeah, it's hardcoded. You should also block the user from placing any Proficiency points in that fighting style, too (because you can place the third prof. point on a vanilla BG2).

    Also, I'd recommend that you ship the mod with a set of items (mostly, longbows, also you can use this one I made if you want to), like RR, S&S and others do, and, besides, there are no good longbows in ToB, while longbows are pretty amazing weapons in BG1/SoA, this also affects Archers in a negative way for ToB.

    About the Called Shot ability… I'd rather remove it altogether and add the new ones you gave the ideas of. Those look pretty cool.
    argent77 said:

    Reduced hit points would be a reasonable drawback. I might also add a higher DEX requirement and (if possible) a lower CON requirement instead.

    Yeah, possible too.

    I'm personally not fond of knockback effects. Not only because they can trivialize melee opponents in many cases, but also because I've played with the effect, and it often glitches (especially when spammed) causing weird issues like enemies being pinned against walls (effectively entangled, but it's worse because they still try to move, therefore they basically do nothing) and in worst cases sent through walls.

    If it's set to move away from caster & a short distance, I don't think it would be too game-breaking, nor that it would break the game, engine-wise by sending enemies other side the wall.

    I'm working on a bard song that Slows/Holds undead for a religious bard kit. (Actually if people think the insta-death is too OP then Hold Undead on the Blessed Arrows might be a good alternative.)

    The insta-kill effect on a Bard song would surely be OP, since it's triggered each round. Maybe if you give it at level 25+ (or to choose as an HLA) and give it a save penalty of +5 or +4, then it wouldn't be so OP.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    CrevsDaak said:

    Yeah, it's hardcoded. You should also block the user from placing any Proficiency points in that fighting style, too (because you can place the third prof. point on a vanilla BG2).

    Already done. Actually I'm limiting all weapon styles to a single point, including 2-weapon style.

    CrevsDaak said:

    Also, I'd recommend that you ship the mod with a set of items (mostly, longbows, also you can use this one I made if you want to), like RR, S&S and others do, and, besides, there are no good longbows in ToB, while longbows are pretty amazing weapons in BG1/SoA, this also affects Archers in a negative way for ToB.

    I've planned to add some +4 arrows and bolts to several stores in ToB, but I can probably come up with one or two powerful longbows as well.

    CrevsDaak said:

    argent77 said:

    Reduced hit points would be a reasonable drawback. I might also add a higher DEX requirement and (if possible) a lower CON requirement instead.

    Yeah, possible too.
    I've just noticed that Rangers in general already have rather high stats requirements. I don't think that any further change is needed. Or I can add a -1 CON penalty to Archers. I have to think about it.

    CrevsDaak said:

    If it's set to move away from caster & a short distance, I don't think it would be too game-breaking, nor that it would break the game, engine-wise by sending enemies other side the wall.

    The knockback effect is supposed to be very short, since it's caused by the impact of a single arrow or bolt. I'll experiment a bit to find the ideal duration. The main purpose of this effect is to keep enemies at distance.

    The blessed arrows and bolts are meant as regular ammunition, but also as a slightly less powerful version of the cleric's Turn Undead ability. While clerics can turn or destroy whole batches of undead each round, the Archer's arrows will target a single undead and allow a save against the death effect. Moreover, the blessed arrows are limited. Each use of the Archer's ability will create a single non-stackable arrow or bolt with 20 charges for a duration of 8 hours.
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  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    edited September 2014
    I have thought to give the Archer kit a small number of unique HLAs as well. This is what I've come up until now:
    Sure Shot
    High-level Archers have gained perfect control over their ranged weapon of choice which allows them to point out and target vital areas of the opponent with frightening precision. With this ability, every attack always hits the target and is counted as a critical hit within the next 12 seconds. Additionally, missiles will overcome any kind of physical resistance for maximum damage. It can not be used together with other shot abilities.

    Requires: Critical Strike

    I still have to test if I can actually ignore physical resistance. (Edit: Doesn't work as intended)
    Edit: I have to remove the "always hits" effect. I thought setting THAC0 for ranged attacks to 32767 disables dice rolls, but that doesn't seem to work with effect opcodes. Luckily, the "always critical" effect also hits on a roll of 1.
    Set Missile Trap
    This ability allows the Archer to set a powerful spring-loaded missile trap in the chosen location when no hostile creatures are in sight. It does 3d10 missile damage and 3d10 magic damage to the unsuspecting creature that sets it off.
    You can place these traps anywhere within visual range as long as no hostile creatures are visible, similar to the special traps of Bounty Hunters.
    Post edited by argent77 on
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    edited September 2014
    Ignoring physical resistance doesn't work as expected, which makes this HLA merely to a ranged version of Critical Strike. That's why I've changed it to the following behavior:
    Sure Shot
    High-level Archers have gained perfect control over their ranged weapon of choice which allows them to point out and target vital areas of the opponent with frightening precision and speed. By enabling this ability, the Archer takes up <PRO_HISHER> stance and shoots missiles in rapid succession.
    For the next 12 seconds this ability sets one's number of attacks per round to 10 and every shot is considered a critical hit. Since this technique requires utmost skill and concentration, the Archer is rooted to the spot for the next two rounds. It can not be used together with other shot abilities.

    Requires: Critical Strike
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  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    Thieves' spike traps are using magic damage, that's why I'm using it for the Archer's version as well. The problem with high level enemies is their immunity or resistance to all kinds of physical attacks. I guess even fire damage isn't much effective in this stage of the game. But I might compensate it by adding lots of different elemental damage types to the trap.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    Btw, how do you reduce the hit dice of the kit to 1d8? In BG(2)EE I can probably use HPCLASS.2DA and apply the priest HP progression table to the Archer kit. The original BG2 doesn't provide HPCLASS.2DA however.
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    Kit-specific hit dice seems to be an EE exclusive feature, unfortunately.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    That's too bad. Then I'll add the -1 CON penalty instead.

    I've updated the kit description in the first post again.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    I've finished the kit and it seems to work so far. The Explosive Shot ability still gives me some trouble because it interrupts the Archer's attack action whenever the explosive effect is triggered.

    Now I'm in the middle of creating new bows that I want to add to the game.

    The first one (a longbow) has been shamelessly ported from IWD2 and can be found somewhere in the first level of Watcher's Keep:
    Great Sun-Reacher +4
    The elves of Evereska are known for their isolationism as much as their skill and bravery in battle. One of their most well known warriors in human lands was the incredibly accurate archer Bariah Goldendown. Though the elves will neither confirm nor deny the legend, some human tales state that keen-eyed Bariah never missed a target in battle. His bow, crafted by his mother, was never given a name that was known outside of the family. The humans that suffered under its power called it "Great Sun-Reacher," believing that Bariah's arrows could reach into the heavens themselves. In a battle that many Evereskans are bitter about to this day, Bariah's griffon mount was killed in the sky by the spells of invisible wizards that ambushed an elven patrol. Though only one mage escaped with his life, he did manage to take Great Sun-Reacher with him.

    STATISTICS:

    Charge abilities:
    – Protection From Normal Missiles once per day

    Combat abilities:
    – When no arrows are equipped, the bow fires +3 arrows that receive +3 to hit and deal 1d6 missile damage

    THAC0: +5
    Speed Factor: 1
    Proficiency Type: Longbow
    Type: Two-handed
    Requires:
    6 Strength

    Weight: 2


    The second bow (a composite longbow) is more powerful and can be found in the entrance area to Sendai's Enclave:
    Defender +4
    (Still working on a good background story...)

    STATISTICS:

    Equipped abilities:
    – Reflects missiles back at their user
    – 3 shots per round

    THAC0: +5
    Damage: +2 (missile)
    Speed Factor: 2
    Proficiency Type: Longbow
    Type: Two-handed
    Requires:
    18 Strength

    Weight: 6


    Are the bows powerful enough or do you have suggestions how to make them even more useful?
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  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    argent77 said:

    Are the bows powerful enough or do you have suggestions how to make them even more useful?

    I'd recommend making the Defender+4 a +5 and changing the "Reflects missiles back at the user" to an AC bonus or an once/day protection spell, not because it won't be powerful enough but because it seems more appealing to me from a Lore-accurate point of view.
  • CrevsDaakCrevsDaak Member Posts: 7,155
    argent77 said:

    I've finished the kit and it seems to work so far. The Explosive Shot ability still gives me some trouble because it interrupts the Archer's attack action whenever the explosive effect is triggered.

    I assume you're using opcode 249 (set ranged effect), so I'd recommend changing the duration by making it a Delayed Duration (offset 0x24's (on the .eff file) value should be 3 and offset 0x28 the delay in seconds) so the effect is applied a little bit later and doesn't interrupt the Archer's attacks.
    Also if you're using a projectile, I'd say you remove it, since it's not needed (the arrow's .pro will be used as projectile).
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    I've changed the first bow to a +3 weapon, but I'll leave it in WK level 1. You'll have to fight anyway to get it.

    The missile deflection was indeed very powerful. I've changed it to a +4 AC bonus against melee weapons. I'd like to keep the increased APR though.
    CrevsDaak said:

    Also if you're using a projectile, I'd say you remove it, since it's not needed (the arrow's .pro will be used as projectile).

    How do I apply the area of effect damage without a projectile?
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    edited September 2014
    I have finally solve the Explosive Shot issue. I had to change the Type parameter for opcode 146 (Cast spell at target) from 'Normal casting' to 'Cast instantly'.

    While I can successfully disable spellcasting, the Archer is still able to memorize spells. Is there a way to remove spells completely as it's done for the Inquisitor kit?
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    There is an opcode for disabling specific buttons so that they are greyed out: Button: Disable Button [144]

    Just add it as an effect to your passive effects at level 1.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    I've already disabled the button, but I can still go to the priest spell selection and memorize spells.

    Is there a way to completely disable the priest spell selection screen? It must be possible, because the Inquisitor kit already does this. But I can't find out how it's done.
  •  TheArtisan TheArtisan Member Posts: 3,277
    I can't speak for the Inquisitor because I can't figure it out either, but I did look up some kits which disable spellcasting: Unfinished Business's Justifier and Sorcerer's Place's Berserker Minsc.

    Both kits have a passive effect which applies Spell: Priest Spell Slots Modifier [62] and a Slot Amount Modifier of -1 for each spell level. It seems... iffy and I'm not sure if it works, since neither mod is compatible with EE, but you could give it a try and see what results you get. AFAIK the priest spellbook will still be accessible, but you won't have any spell slots nor be able to see any spells.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    The spell slot modifier opcodes are very tricky to use. If you're removing more spell slots than available it'll cause an overflow and you get 12 spell slots for free. I'll give it a try, but it might backfire if other mods are changing the default spell progression for rangers.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2014
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • argent77argent77 Member Posts: 3,478
    The opcode to remove spells slots works pretty well. It doesn't disable the priest spell selection screen, but since it's removing all spell slots, the game doesn't show any spells to choose from. Furthermore, I've also disabled the spell button, so that any modified spell progression table doesn't get a chance to circumvent this limitation of the Archer kit.

    I couldn't find any indication how the Inquisitor kit manages to disable priest spells. I have to assume it's one of the many hardcoded aspects of the game.

    And with this issue solved the mod is ready for download. I've only rudimentarily tested the kit, but from what I've seen it works very well. Thanks for all your suggestions and ideas to make the kit better. I'll open a separate topic for the final product.
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