Code of honor

CTKnightOwl

If you are someone who knows pretty much where everything is and how to get it in the most efficient way, it is often too easy to play through this game. To offset this, you may choose to play with lawful characters and avoid all exploits and thievery.

I once tried playing as a speed-rush character and refused to take anything from chests that was not quest related but that didn't work out.

I am looking for a solid challenge by playing a Lawful character and abiding by various ethical rules such as No pickpocketing from stores or people and/or no stealing from people's homes.

Does anyone have any other ideas as far as modifying your gameplay and choices to make the game more of a challenge and less of a 'Monty Haul'?

the_spyder

Just my two cents. If you want real constructive feedback and a healthy discussion here, remove references to alignment and "Lawful". Any character can have a code of honor. And bringing 'Alignment' into the discussion is generally a rally call for flame wars.

With that having been said, setting up your own rules such as "No stealing" or "only do stuff that you find clues for" is an excellent way to breath new life into the game. Since the game is not as linear as some games out there, there's a LOT you can do or play around with to make it fun and challenging.

I would suggest that you check out some of the challenges posted on this site. There are hoards of them. "Evil" runs. "Poverty" runs. "Themed parties". The sky's the limit.

CTKnightOwl

Thanks for the feedback although I am unclear on how mentioning 'alignment' or 'lawful' brings out the flames. I had no idea there were challenges, I'll check them out.

Lateralus

My extreme pacifism run is the only one that nobody has ever completed. SPOILER: it's impossible to finish the game without killing a few people.

the_spyder

@CTKnightOwl - nothing wrong with the thread. Posting it here will absolutely get people to talk and enthuse about the types of challenges they like. People do solo runs, poverty runs, SCS runs. They do Minimum reload runs. The challenges are endless. I saw one earlier today where someone did a Low Rep run so they were constantly fighting Flaming Fist and Bounty Hunters. There's loads that you can do.

As far as alignment is concerned, there are SO MANY strongly held different variations and interpretations of alignment that invariably any mention of that topic brings out the nutz (ahem....) those with strongly held beliefs. Basically people who will dissect and obsess about that component to the exclusion of the actual intent of the thread.

If you want info on Challenges (and to my knowledge there isn't anything Structured), just ask about them here. People will gladly share how they continue to love and renew the game.

DreadKhan

Lateralus said:

My extreme pacifism run is the only one that nobody has ever completed. SPOILER: it's impossible to finish the game without killing a few people.

Does petrification count as death?

Anecdote: one of my favourite things from 3.5 was the Sacred Vows feats from Book of Exalted Deeds. There were two pacifist feats, one that restricted you to killing only really non-humanish or non-living, while the more strict meant no killing period. It was a pretty radical concept for DnD... Vow of Poverty was a very crazy too.

Vakarian

As @the_spyder mentioned above, one of the things I like to go with is "only do stuff you find clues for." This will push you to some more substantial fights at lower character levels than would happen otherwise and with less substantial gear.

Also, things like minimal reload permadeath runs can make it interesting as you're forced to use companions that may be less "ideal" than your standard choices. (Did that ankheg get a lucky shot in? Did someone fail their save against that pack of ghasts and get eaten alive? Too bad, no resurrection for you! Find someone else to take over that role in your party.)

GoodSteve

DreadKhan said:

Lateralus said:

My extreme pacifism run is the only one that nobody has ever completed. SPOILER: it's impossible to finish the game without killing a few people.

Does petrification count as death?

Anecdote: one of my favourite things from 3.5 was the Sacred Vows feats from Book of Exalted Deeds. There were two pacifist feats, one that restricted you to killing only really non-humanish or non-living, while the more strict meant no killing period. It was a pretty radical concept for DnD... Vow of Poverty was a very crazy too.

A little off topic but those vows in 3.5 were sometimes downright game breaking, especially the Vow of Poverty on a Monk. Strangely enough, the vow of poverty still gave you many bonuses that were akin to magic items you would normally find, the upside was that it let you pick and choose what bonuses you wanted instead of relying on actually being able to find or buy that gear which can sometimes be impossible. I'm also pretty sure it could give you a +8 bonus to one stat, which was otherwise impossible to achieve with the stat increasing belts/cloaks/bracers etc.

TheGraveDigger

Use a "pay for your crimes" system.
Stole Algernon's Cloak? Donate 1750 to a nearby temple.
Stole The Stupefier? Donate 1500 to a nearby temple.

Not sure if buried/hidden items count as stealing, but you could donate money to the ground you took them from... like a gift for the gods.
The hidden Ankheg plate is worth 5000g
The hidden mage ring is worth 4000g

It's a stupid idea, I know, but so are most codes of honor.

CTKnightOwl

Good points all, I get what you are saying spyder and agree with you.

I'm not much on limited reload games. If I played 3 hours and then die, I am not going to want to redo all that. It always ends up as an unsuccessful permadeath run.

Here's a rough example, I have all achievements for DeadSpace2 on X360 except for the one where you have to play the entire game on hard with 3 total saves...that is punishing to the point of sadistic, especially when there are so many games waiting to be played.

Poverty run sounds more like my cup of Joe since I am always finding the game's potential for extreme loot to be too much. I guess I just need to start being more indulgent with my consumables and play on a higher difficulty.

the_spyder

@CTKnightOwl - Like you, I am not much for the limited/no reload games. Quite frankly, I am more into these games for the role playing than for the industrial strategy of it all, so I don't claim to be a 'Great player'.

With that having been said, I can say that no-reload games add a level of excitement and trepidation that doesn't otherwise exist. If you KNOW that death means the end of your game, you tend to approach challenges a bit differently. And the "Limited" reload games are such that only Charname's death equals a reload. That way you basically keep going, resurrecting fallen comrades should they die. If you get in a REALLY bad place (i.e. Charname dies), then you reload. It is somewhere in the middle but answers your concern about playing 5 hours and then having to start again.

I've seen all manner of challenges posted here. Some people do speed runs, finishing the entire game in a few hours or less (I've seen some REALLY quick plays posted). Some romance every single character to their completion (not in the same game). Some only play low stat characters. Some play whatever got rolled the first time. Basically, if you can think of a limitation or restriction, people have probably played that way.

I once played (in PnP) a Ranger who didn't believe in magic. He wouldn't use magic items and he would not travel with Wizards. For some reason, Divine magic was OK for him so Clerics were fine. I am not "necessarily" suggesting that for BG, but it MIGHT be your thing.

I've even seen people play challenges where they don't level up, completing BG1 as 1st level and BG2 as 5-6th level characters. Crazy as that might (or might not) sound, it is done.

Pick your own challenge, or take ideas from someone else. Enjoy. And come back and post what you did.

SCARY_WIZARD

Couldn't resist...

http://youtu.be/35GUTY_Gr14

Gallowglass

CTKnightOwl said:

I am looking for a solid challenge by playing a Lawful character and abiding by various ethical rules such as No pickpocketing from stores or people and/or no stealing from people's homes.

In BG1, that's not really much of a handicap. You can buy everything you need from stores (unless you're playing low-REP Evil, in which case everything costs a fortune), there's very little to be had from people's pockets, and not very much of importance can be looted from private homes (although there are some very good items, such as The Stupefier, hidden in other buildings).

In BG2, this plan would be more of a handicap. There's some quite significant stuff in some people's pockets, and it's more difficult to get enough gold to buy everything you might want from stores.

DreadKhan

Actually, I'd say pickpocketing is more useful in BG1, while BG2 allows you to gather multiple dragon hordes of gold coins to Scrooge McDuck in. Only solo completionist playthroughs of BG1 do I have the midas touch, if I use a party, I can spend tons on those lazy jerks!

Monks taking the Vow of Poverty is a solid choice, but tbh, you can get get +6 to all 4 useful ability scores for a monk, vs +8 +6 +4 +2... and if you are creative with magic item use, you probably traded versstility for munchkin boni. It eorks nicely for a Tatooed Monk though, as the PrC grants tons of tricks.

I'd love to wstch someone play an artificer with the Vow of Poverty. so little synergy!

CTKnightOwl

Actually in BG1, you can get a pretty big jump on things by selling/stealing back rings of wiz and holy (you can do this after you beat Mulahey) that's a cool 14k. You get a potion of master thievery from Vitiere in one of the carnival tents and you can just quick save and steal from Nashkel store although you will likely need several tries unless you get some potions from Durlag's tower. Steal some +1 large shields for all your fighters while you're at it. Other than that, there isn't much else you can do with pickpocketing in BG1(that I know of)

btw, I am unfamiliar with anything other than core, advanced, and 2nd edition rules so I don't understand what DreadKhan is referring to.

Bustication

I've been enjoying no loot runs where the character only accepts gold and items that are freely given (and quest items, of course). It leads to tight management regardless of class, especially in BG1.

CTKnightOwl

That sounds interesting Bustication. so no chests and nooks but what about treasure dropped from fallen enemies?

Bustication

To each his own, but when I do these runs, I leave corpses alone. It makes money seem much more valuable and severely limits item selection.